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I would like your thoughts and opinions on this 1850 list I'm putting together for the BAO.

Any thing you would take out or change?

Opinions very much wanted.

**GK Liberian w/ teleport homer, demon hammer, servo skulls, level 3 pysker(245pnts)

**Coteaz(100pnts)

**Vindicare Assassin(145pnts)

**Inquisitorial Henchmen (84pnts)
-crusader
-pysker
-acolyte w/hot shot las
-Razor Back w/ heavy bolter and pys bolt ammo

**Inquisitorial Henchmen (84pnts)
-crusader
-pysker
-acolyte w/hot shot las
-Razor Back w/ heavy bolter and pys bolt ammo

**Inquisitorial Henchmen (84pnts)
-crusader
-pysker
-acolyte w/hot shot las
-Razor Back w/ heavy bolter and pys bolt ammo

**Inquisitorial Henchmen (84pnts)
-crusader
-pysker
-acolyte w/hot shot las
-Razor Back w/ heavy bolter and pys bolt ammo

**Inquisitorial Henchmen (84pnts)
-crusader
-pysker
-acolyte w/hot shot las
-Razor Back w/ heavy bolter and pys bolt ammo

**Dread Knight w/Great Sword (155pnts)

**Dread Knight w/Great Sword (155pnts)

**Tigurius (165pnts)

**Scout Squad (55pnts)

**Centurions x5 w/grav guns (410pnts)

Total is 1850

The idea is to have the Liberian, coteaz, tiggy with centurions and rolling for Gate and Invis and having the dead knights deep strike onto the Liberian.

The henchman squads are a bit weird. I understand the psykers for extra warp charge points, but there is no need for crusaders or special guns on the acolytes. Since your in razorbacks, you won't be assaulting out of the transport(if you are assaulted,a lone crusader won't save you) or shooting unless you get out, which you don't really want to do. Take a psyker and 2 naked acolytes, maybe bolters if you have spare points.

Knights need incinerators over swords, so they can contribute to shooting as well as assault.

With the points freed up from your henchmen,consider an inquisitor.A psyocclum or grenades would help take out nasty deathstars. Another centurion would not be a bad idea either.

I understand the henchmen squads. It was a suggestion I made in the GK tactics thread. The crusader is there to give a *little* hope that the henchmen will survive a little longer once the psyback is opened up. The special weapon (I used meltaguns) was to help shift things like OS drop pods.

It is a controversial build!

Because the BAO has modified maelstrom secondaries, it's important that OS troops survive for the whole 5 turns, which is not guaranteed at all with psybacks with a henchmen tax (ie, 2 acolytes and a psyker).

Re the list, I think you need teleporters on the DK. The DS idea is fine, but I'd be wary of reserving them. I'd say you need them on the field as they are a big distraction - shoot at DK or psyback? Wthout the DK, its fairly straightforward...shoot the psybacks.

The vindi is looking a little exposed ( I assume the idea is to give him mobile cover with the Psybacks?)

yea the idea was to allow the assassin to move with the razor backs for cover. and the idea of the crusader is to help the unit survive if/when the razor back does die. will probably get rid of the special weapon as it is only strength 3. haven't really used the assassin at all and was wanting to test him out but if you have any ideas of changing him out for something else im open to any ideas. im looking to make this an awesome list and would like any insight or judgment you guys might have.

I would reduce the Henchmen squads to standard battery squads (2 Acolytes with bolters and Psyker), that saves you 70 points. Drop the Vindicare, he has less than 1:4 chance to kill a vehicle these days. Then dump the Teleport homer. That's 230 points to spend.

Get Teleporters for both Dreadknights and Incinerators. That's 210 spent but now you have 3 threats on the board turn 1 rather than 1. Then get an Omniscope so that Deathstar doesn't have to just overkill 1 unit a turn.

That leaves 10 points to get what you want.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would reduce the Henchmen squads to standard battery squads (2 Acolytes with bolters and Psyker), that saves you 70 points. Drop the Vindicare, he has less than 1:4 chance to kill a vehicle these days. Then dump the Teleport homer. That's 230 points to spend.

Get Teleporters for both Dreadknights and Incinerators. That's 210 spent but now you have 3 threats on the board turn 1 rather than 1. Then get an Omniscope so that Deathstar doesn't have to just overkill 1 unit a turn.

That leaves 10 points to get what you want.

This is probably what I would suggest. Teleporters on the Knights are almost a must, as are incinerators. I love the idea of an assassin, I just don't think he'll do much for you.

But the DKs are not objective secured and reducing the henchmen to the battery tax leaves really, really weak OS troops. I'm really not sure that's a good idea for a tournament with known Maelstrom style secondaries.

A drop pod list would seriously mess up a battery list because they could drop the pods on the objectives, then just take out the vehicles over a few turns. After that, cleaning up the henchmen tax won't take long.

I'd almost be inclined to dump a DK, and a reconfigure the troops. Keep the same number of psykers, but put them in say 3 RBacks. Use the remaining points for some GKSS, or a termi squad - anything with OS and a bit tougher (even if you have to DS them in).

my 2c.

The expensive battery configs of the first list are not really any more survivable than the cheap ones. 1 T3 3++ wound isn't going to make a difference.

If he wants more scoring then drop a Centurion for a 6th Battery squad. Remember he can play keep away with DPs with the Grav Squad due to IBEY. Plus he can just gunline and largely ignore Maelstrom due to the nature of the mission.

thanks guys this is truly helpful... I would like to do well at the BAO and wanna make this list as tough as possible

 FlingitNow wrote:
The expensive battery configs of the first list are not really any more survivable than the cheap ones. 1 T3 3++ wound isn't going to make a difference.

If he wants more scoring then drop a Centurion for a 6th Battery squad. Remember he can play keep away with DPs with the Grav Squad due to IBEY. Plus he can just gunline and largely ignore Maelstrom due to the nature of the mission.

Well, at least the expensive version gets a saving roll. Equally, you could add more bodies (5 more acolytes) for the same points (except they don't fit in a psyback). The thing is, from the battle reports Frontline is putting out, I don't think you'll be able to ignore the maelstrom. Primary is likely to be tied, so the maelstrom secondary is going to be critical.

Good point on IBEY. I'm a big fan of IBEY, remembering that it only triggers if the unit finishes deployment within 12". 24" is a solid chunk of board and the best thing is that you'll get to shoot at both the pod and whatever comes out of it. If you can go first (and Coteaz helps again) this is definitely a solid defense.

@OP, I think the question is what you think works more effectively (and how many psybacks you have! ) because we can go round in circles for ages. At the very least, those DK need a shooting attack (incinerator) and teleporters would definitely help. As has been said, with no shooting attack and no teleporters, they really aren't that useful.

Imo, the battery spam is reducing your overall effectiveness. My suggestion would be to limit to 3, but have a couple of psykers in each - take three in each if necessary. I'm not familiar with Tiggy, and centurionstar, but maybe you need to see if you can get a GKGM in somewhere without seriously hurting your chances of getting Gate and Invis. Making the DK superscoring would help a lot.