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I was hoping someone could tell me about this, what would happen if a chapter became renegades but a portion of them stayed loyal? Would the remaining loyalists be declared traitors or would the chapter continue through them?

 Toastaster wrote:
I was hoping someone could tell me about this, what would happen if a chapter became renegades but a portion of them stayed loyal? Would the remaining loyalists be declared traitors or would the chapter continue through them?

Read the Crimson Slaughter supplement. The loyalists who suspected what was happening broke off and continue to fight as the Crimson Sabers (albeit without support from either side) and those who stayed around were summarily executed before they could resist.

It would depend on the Inquisitor who first discovers what is going on I would think. Some might condemn them all, some might task the loyalists with the destruction of the renegades as penance, etc.

Some of the loyal members may also join the Deathwatch to become Black Shields, but that's pretty rare.

The Horus Heresy series is litter strewn with stories on this subject. It happened in nearly every traitor legion at onset of heresy.

This why the Istvan 3 atrocity happened. To purge the traitor legions of the loyalists.

Many loyalist within traitor legions were taken prisoners by imperial forces and were jailed cause they couldent be trusted.

Most of them surrendered willingly and excepted their fate to be imprisoned. Othrrs were less willing to comply.

Tge outcast dead was an excellent book on this subject. I really enjoyed it.

It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

They probably are, at least given the strange mutations that look nothing like Raven Guard. Most of all their teeth look suspiciously similar to those of Konrad Curze. Also, loyalist foudings of traitor legions isn't that unlikely, IIRC the Silver Skulls are likely loyalist Iron Warriors, and many of the severely mutated descendents of the supposedly pure Ultramarines might be the result of them assimilating loyalists of the traitor legions.

Loppie wrote:
The Horus Heresy series is litter strewn with stories on this subject. It happened in nearly every traitor legion at onset of heresy.

This why the Istvan 3 atrocity happened. To purge the traitor legions of the loyalists.

Many loyalist within traitor legions were taken prisoners by imperial forces and were jailed cause they couldent be trusted.

Most of them surrendered willingly and excepted their fate to be imprisoned. Othrrs were less willing to comply.

Tge outcast dead was an excellent book on this subject. I really enjoyed it.

You're right that this situation came up a lot during the heresy, but those incidents have little bearing on the discussion of what would happen in the 41st millenium. The incidents during the heresy were before the rise of the Ecclesiarchy, and really even before the rise of the Inquisition, so its a completely different ballgame now.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

Citation Needed.


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 Wyzilla wrote:
Most of all their teeth look suspiciously similar to those of Konrad Curze.

The Night Haunter's teeth are not genetic, He did that to himself with a file.

First I've heard of the Night Lords. I don't really see it, their respective Index Astartes articles describe both the Raven Guard and Night Lords as pale skinned with black eyes - one jet black, one coal black. That they are Raven Guard is seemingly confirmed by Extermination (FW HH book 3) which pictures a Heresy era Raven Guard Terminator with muted Carcharadon style markings described as "subtle motifs derived from the decorative arts of the Lycaean slave-miners".

 EmpNortonII wrote:
It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

Actually, the most common theory is that they are Loyalist World Eaters, not NL. They rely on savagery, not fear tactics.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

Citation Needed.

1d4chan + me=widely


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 Lucarikx wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
It is widely speculated that the Carcharodons Astra are loyalist Night Lords.

Actually, the most common theory is that they are Loyalist World Eaters, not NL. They rely on savagery, not fear tactics.

I have *never* heard that before. Besides, the Carcharodons fight smarter than most Chapters- not something World Eaters are known for.

Pop open the Deathwatch book 'Honor the Chapter.' Irrational rage isn't a mark of Sharks- but detachment is.


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 Gashrog wrote:
First I've heard of the Night Lords. I don't really see it, their respective Index Astartes articles describe both the Raven Guard and Night Lords as pale skinned with black eyes - one jet black, one coal black. That they are Raven Guard is seemingly confirmed by Extermination (FW HH book 3) which pictures a Heresy era Raven Guard Terminator with muted Carcharadon style markings described as "subtle motifs derived from the decorative arts of the Lycaean slave-miners".

Shark geneseed is very pure- like Night Lords and very unlike Raven Guard.

I'd say the Heresy is highly relevant since the Inquistition was born out of a few loyalists from traitor legions.

In 40k, what happens will depend on who knows. Renegades who abandon their old heraldry might not reflect poorly on the few loyal elements, especially when the loyalists blame the disappearance of 80% of their strength on a freak warp storm.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I'd say the Heresy is highly relevant since the Inquistition was born out of a few loyalists from traitor legions.

In 40k, what happens will depend on who knows. Renegades who abandon their old heraldry might not reflect poorly on the few loyal elements, especially when the loyalists blame the disappearance of 80% of their strength on a freak warp storm.

You're thinking of the creation of the Grey Knights, not the Inquisition as a whole. The Inquisition itself is far larger than the Astartes elements that are attached to it.

 Orblivion wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I'd say the Heresy is highly relevant since the Inquistition was born out of a few loyalists from traitor legions.

In 40k, what happens will depend on who knows. Renegades who abandon their old heraldry might not reflect poorly on the few loyal elements, especially when the loyalists blame the disappearance of 80% of their strength on a freak warp storm.

You're thinking of the creation of the Grey Knights, not the Inquisition as a whole. The Inquisition itself is far larger than the Astartes elements that are attached to it.

Indeed, although the Inquisition was founded at the same time.

Carcharodons are probably raven guard. There's a Raven Guard guy with one of their ancient relics in Book 3 Extermination that gets sent out to the fringes of the galaxy (which is where the carcharodons work)

Silver Skulls are probably loyalist Iron Warriors from Dantioch's band and Blood Ravens are probably loyalist Thousand Sons from Arvida's group, though. Both in the 40th Millenium have clearly had their origins covered up if that is the case, though.

One of the turned Chapters in the Abyssal Crusade was revealed to only have like, 3/4ths of it go corrupt in a short story. The remaining survivors were allowed to stay with the Imperium but they are under VERY heavy scrutiny by the Inquisition.

As pointed out earlier, for Crimson Slaughter, it seems the few remaining untainted were likely killed.

I imagine Black Shields are an option. Interestingly enough the Death Watch has a loyalist Astral Claw DURING the Badab War but BEFORE news of the war actually reached the place he was stationed (instead they only had rumours), but we never get to learn his fate after it is discovered that his chapter are traitors.