Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

morgoth wrote:
There's one topic about whether the WS is better now, and Overall nerf is the conclusion.

Oh really? That was not the thread's conclusion was at all. It is your conclusion where simply hand wave away or ignore the opposing arguments and data while Ad Hominem insulting those who disagree by calling them Anti Eldar Trolls and bad players while asserting your own superior tactical knowledge and understanding of the game. That thread?

Please, don't blatantly misrepresent the facts to further your argument, one which you've opened up across multiple threads.

The general consensus, by everyone except you, is that the Wave Serpent is better.

 Zagman wrote:

Oh really? That was not the thread's conclusion was at all. It is your conclusion where simply hand wave away or ignore the opposing arguments and data while Ad Hominem insulting those who disagree by calling them Anti Eldar Trolls and bad players while asserting your own superior tactical knowledge and understanding of the game. That thread?

Please, don't blatantly misrepresent the facts to further your argument, one which you've opened up across multiple threads.

The general consensus, by everyone except you, is that the Wave Serpent is better.

No data or logic was presented to underpin the conclusion that the Wave Serpent is better.
I'm not the one running around pretending Eldar is OP or WS is OP without any data or logic to back it up.

morgoth wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Oh really? That was not the thread's conclusion was at all. It is your conclusion where simply hand wave away or ignore the opposing arguments and data while Ad Hominem insulting those who disagree by calling them Anti Eldar Trolls and bad players while asserting your own superior tactical knowledge and understanding of the game. That thread?

Please, don't blatantly misrepresent the facts to further your argument, one which you've opened up across multiple threads.

The general consensus, by everyone except you, is that the Wave Serpent is better.

No data or logic was presented to underpin the conclusion that the Wave Serpent is better.
I'm not the one running around pretending Eldar is OP or WS is OP without any data or logic to back it up.

Nope, you're just the one running 7 of them despite the "nerf" they took. Hopefully your tactical acumen can make up for how underwhelming the crappy Wave Serpent is now.

 Eldarain wrote:

Nope, you're just the one running 7 of them despite the "nerf" they took. Hopefully your tactical acumen can make up for how underwhelming the crappy Wave Serpent is now.

Nothing can beat the sexy look of the WS. nothing. I played them when they were really bad, I'll still play them when they become useless again. Right now is still a lot better than with 4th ed codex anyway.

*comes into a thread called "give it to me straight"*

*starts arguing that Eldar and Wave Serpents aren't OP*

*loses at forum'ing*

I'd say that everyone who thinks that having the better argument means self-referring for the entire time along with repeatedly stating the same, wrong, statements has pretty much lost already

 FenrisianStuart21 wrote:
I want to know what the best codex is right now.

Orks. Wonderful models. Fun to play. That makes it best in my book.

 kronk wrote:

 FenrisianStuart21 wrote:
I want to know what the best codex is right now.

Orks. Wonderful models. Fun to play. That makes it best in my book.

Exalted.

 Eldarain wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Oh really? That was not the thread's conclusion was at all. It is your conclusion where simply hand wave away or ignore the opposing arguments and data while Ad Hominem insulting those who disagree by calling them Anti Eldar Trolls and bad players while asserting your own superior tactical knowledge and understanding of the game. That thread?

Please, don't blatantly misrepresent the facts to further your argument, one which you've opened up across multiple threads.

The general consensus, by everyone except you, is that the Wave Serpent is better.

No data or logic was presented to underpin the conclusion that the Wave Serpent is better.
I'm not the one running around pretending Eldar is OP or WS is OP without any data or logic to back it up.

Nope, you're just the one running 7 of them despite the "nerf" they took. Hopefully your tactical acumen can make up for how underwhelming the crappy Wave Serpent is now.

Exalt for you Eldarain!
I play iron hands and even with my clan raukaan immortal chaptermaster of doom(yeah right) improved defense vs the ****tons of eldar shuriken weapons with 6+ FNP 3 vindicators and 2 talons, i can't win vs eldar with more than 4 serpents... EVEN IF I MANAGE TO SOMEHOW blow up the serpent, then 5 pansies camp on the objective
@morgoth, don't cry, even with psychic powers being harder to cast and this strange nerf which makes marines only option vs eldar(buttloads of drop podding sternguard) near useless, you STILL have the strongest race

morgoth wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Oh really? That was not the thread's conclusion was at all. It is your conclusion where simply hand wave away or ignore the opposing arguments and data while Ad Hominem insulting those who disagree by calling them Anti Eldar Trolls and bad players while asserting your own superior tactical knowledge and understanding of the game. That thread?

Please, don't blatantly misrepresent the facts to further your argument, one which you've opened up across multiple threads.

The general consensus, by everyone except you, is that the Wave Serpent is better.

No data or logic was presented to underpin the conclusion that the Wave Serpent is better.
I'm not the one running around pretending Eldar is OP or WS is OP without any data or logic to back it up.

No data or logic underlies your delusion that one of the most OP uits in the game got worse not better - as you state you have no interest in tactics just killing your opponents with cheesy list and units

To claim that the thread decided that way is an outgiht distortion and insulting to all that particpated in that and every other thread where you spread this nonsense - its only yourself and a coupel fo other die hard Wave Serpent appoloigsts that believe this......

ThatSwellFella wrote:
EVEN IF I MANAGE TO SOMEHOW blow up the serpent, then 5 pansies camp on the objective

Have you tried actually approaching them? Your list of strategies implies not.

ThatSwellFella wrote:
@morgoth, don't cry, even with psychic powers being harder to cast and this strange nerf which makes marines only option vs eldar(buttloads of drop podding sternguard) near useless, you STILL have the strongest race

That's the thing.

How can a race that used to be tied with the other races in the top 5.
That has received a raw power nerf to all of its competitive tools.
That is facing two of the other top 5 races that received mostly buffs with v7.

Still end up on top ?

It's not possible.

Either it was not tied, or it was not nerfed, or the other races were not buffed.


There is absolutely no doubt that SM and Necrons received a huge buff with v7.
There is absolutely no doubt that the SeerStar has been nerfed.
There is doubt that the WS nerf may be compensated by the Objective Secure Meta shift.
There is statistical evidence that Eldar, Tau, SM, Necrons and Daemons were tied for top 5.


It does not even make sense to disagree with my conclusion unless you have elements that undermine the causes for that conclusion, and I would like to see some.

morgoth wrote:

ThatSwellFella wrote:
@morgoth, don't cry, even with psychic powers being harder to cast and this strange nerf which makes marines only option vs eldar(buttloads of drop podding sternguard) near useless, you STILL have the strongest race

That's the thing.

How can a race that used to be tied with the other races in the top 5.
That has received a raw power nerf to all of its competitive tools.
That is facing two of the other top 5 races that received mostly buffs with v7.

Still end up on top ?

It's not possible.

Either it was not tied, or it was not nerfed, or the other races were not buffed.


There is absolutely no doubt that SM and Necrons received a huge buff with v7.
There is absolutely no doubt that the SeerStar has been nerfed.
There is doubt that the WS nerf may be compensated by the Objective Secure Meta shift.
There is statistical evidence that Eldar, Tau, SM, Necrons and Daemons were tied for top 5.


It does not even make sense to disagree with my conclusion unless you have elements that undermine the causes for that conclusion, and I would like to see some.

Actually according to the Torrent of Fire Data..

Eldar had an overal win percentage of 64%, the highest of the Top 5.

Vs the other top five

Vs Daemons 56.7%
Vs Necrons 52.5%
Vs Space Marines 58.5%
Vs Tau 51.8%

Eldar, even in regards to the other Top Five were incredibly strong. They were not "tied" unless by "tied" you meant statistically commanding lead.

Eldar were also stronger against the other codices with the strongest showing among the top five. That is not "tied".

And what morgoth is saying would only be true if they actually got a nerf. With Wave Serpents being buffed so hard it more than makes up for the other stuff.


In other news, how many times has morgoth literally had to lie about statistics in this thread. I see he lied blatantly lied about having the majority on his side in the Wave Serpent thread, and about the torrentoffire statistics too, no doubt thinking people wouldn't bother checking him on either - anyone else pick up on statements by him that aren't just really bias/stupid opinions and are actually outright lies?

Indeed its patently clear from his own statements that he favours the most cheesy list and units so he can wipe his opponent off the table - and ironically given his own statements for people to get better and/or adpat is unable to do so himself or understand what is clear to almost everyone else that the Wave Serpent is even better now - so from blatently OP to horrifically so.....

The best codex at the moment is eldar but they are also the hardest to play i e they are cohesive. 7 out of top 10 at the 2014 LVO were Eldar.

Chaos is probably good if you struggle to get every ounce of advantage out of the board position. Tau are good but struggled in the LVO i also think tyranids are good. Orks might be good going forward. They are heavily underrated but as an eldar player (me personally) the hardest fought games are vs Orks. AV14 tranports with open topped with 50 shots and 2 squads of Nobz bikers with a warboss each gets into your line. The best way to avoid WS spam is to be in melee

morgoth wrote:
SeerStar without a baron is better than with a baron, but the baron's main use was the 36 shot average 2++ and the Hit and Run, not the 2+ cover save

All things being equal, Witchfire has been nerfed, the damage output of the SeerStar is going to drop another notch and might well land it into not-that-competitive-anymore territory.

This post right here makes it pretty clear that you have very little knowledge of how a Seer Star functions.

The Baron's main use was NOT to tank wounds. He provided the unit with Stealth (2+ cover with conceal), +1 on your roll to go first, and most importantly, the Hit & Run rule. In 7th, Stealth is largely irrelevant because Jink is now 4+, but +1 to go first and H&R are still HUGE for the Star. The council has always had low damage output, it wins games by being almost unkillable (Which it still is) and by controlling the board (Impossible without H&R). Also in order to tank wound with the Baron, he would need to be up front. This is nearly impossible if you are looking for a T2 charge (which you should be) as you would not be able to flat out the bikes ahead of him across the board.

Also regarding your other posts, how the heck do you come to the conclusion that witchfires got nerfed? I'm sure if you ate a single Horrify + Psychic Shriek combo from my Council you might change your mind on that one.

 kronk wrote:

 FenrisianStuart21 wrote:
I want to know what the best codex is right now.

Orks. Wonderful models. Fun to play. That makes it best in my book.

Damn straight