Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a 2000 point battle against Necrons coming up and I have not done well in two previous battles against them. I just don't know what to do with them. I have all the models but swooping hawks and warp spiders. Any help would be appreciated.

You should start by posting your usual list, and his usual list.

Necron vs Eldar is more or less 50%, may be slightly favoring Necron in 7th, but overall it's a wash.

Hard to tell where your games stray from that 50% without any detail

The list I use is

Farseer
Singing spear
Runes of Warding
Runes of witnessing
Jetbike

Spiritseer

Spiritseer

Warlock Council
5 Warlocks
2 with Singing Spear
5 Jeatbikes

Dire Avengers
+4 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent with Holo-fields

Wraithguard
Wave Serpent with Holo-fields

2x Windrider Jetbike Squad
5 total
Fire Dragons
Falcon
Shuriken Cannon
Scatter Laser
Holo-fields

Wraithlord
Bright lance
Scatter laser
Ghostglaive

Wraithlord
Bright lance
Scatter laser

1997

Is this ok?

Not at all.

That's probably why you're losing.

There's three types of army list:
random, like yours, either all the models you like or all the models you have
playable, with some decent choices, limited by fluff or models or list building skills
competitive, with optimal choices only, geared for tournaments.


The biggest things between your list and an ok-list are:

Why so much HQ ? It's more than allowed in a Combined Arms Detachment with 2 Spiritseers, 1 Farseer and a Warlock Council... I can see going unbound for interesting non-standard stuff, but for one additional Spiritseer .. ?
Why not give Singing spear to all your Warlocks ?
If you take Wave Serpents with Holo-fields, why not give them a TL Scatter Laser and a Shuriken Cannon ?
If you take Fire Dragons, why not let them use a Wave Serpent instead of a Falcon, which is better at being a tank and worse at being a transport ?
If you get a Bright Lance and a Scatter Laser on a Wraithlord, why give it a Ghostglaive on top ?

I think fixing those big weaknesses should bring you closer to having a chance against your Necron friend, depending on his army list of course.

Agreed with morgoth

with the WLs either go dual lance or dual scatter/scatter star. Mixing anti-infantry with AT doesn't go over very well. Keeping the glaives is fine since they should be your CC deterent and moving them forward as area denial units.

Your serpents need a more optimal loadout to be useful, SL shurican is the best for the job. Your GJB squads should be 3 man each since they aren't designed to be offensive, not sure if you meant 5 man jetbikes or 5 man fragons so just throwing that out there.

The Fragons should get a WS for their transport instead of a falcon, the WS is a far better transport since it is faster and more durable.

DA should stick to 5 man squads since their damage output isn't that high, especially since they should be sitting back in their WS and using the serpent's range to their advantage.

The 2nd spritseer isn't really neccessary, he isnt going to be buffing much thorughout the game since he will be in a transport with whoever.

Runes of Warding is possible one of the most useless upgrades you could take vs. crons especially since they have no psychic presence whatsoever.

I would suggest grabbing a wraithknight, expanding your seer council, or grabbing more serpents with 5 DA in them.

What do you have trouble with when facing necrons specifically. The more details the better we can help you out with everything.

Yeah well, I'm not sure he needs or wants a competitive list just yet - or a copy/paste list, or to buy a lot of expensive plastic

Ok
My Farseer is with 3 warlocks on Jetbike

1 spiritseer is with the Dire Avengers
1 spiritseer is with the Wraithguard
They are there to cast conceal on the WS to get them across the board.

1 Warlock with a singing spear with each 5 man Jetbike Squad

I like the falcon that is the only reason I have the fire dragons in it.

This is the first time I used the WL and this is what is on them.

I forgot to put in the Fire Prism with Holo-fields on the list

The plan was to go as fast as I can across the board 1st turn, unload and shoot them up.

I also have trouble defeating necrons and the best tactics I have found is the opposite of run across the board as fast as possible. Most necron units are limited to 24 inch weapons so staying out of their way and fielding more long range firepower dose the trick for me. Also take advantage of their limited range and use battle focus to hit and run (literally). Necrons also have low initiatives so throwing in some monofilament weapons is always a good idea as well.

You're right to try and stay more than 24" away... but just be aware that if he's playing with Nightscythes or Veil-teks distance might not matter, as he'll be able to get practically anywhere he wants with them.

Oneeye wrote:
1 spiritseer is with the Dire Avengers
1 spiritseer is with the Wraithguard
They are there to cast conceal on the WS to get them across the board.

Psykers cannot cast any powers while in a wave serpent. The dire avengers do not need a Spiritseer with them, they will most likely just be sitting inside the serpent for most of the game. Also your wave serpents don't really need to get across the board. Especially the one with dire avengers in it.

Oneeye wrote:
I like the falcon that is the only reason I have the fire dragons in it.

I also like falcons in 7th because of the new jink being so good. Especially for Necron annihilation barges. They really don't care if they're snap firing or not. Falcons get more shots than a fire prism, and so have a better shot of getting a shot through that jink save. If I'm not taking bright lance war-walkers, I'm taking Falcons now. But that's just preference. If you like them, use them!

Most of this has been said above, but i'll just point form the highlights you should consider:
- You said you have 4 dire avengers in a wave serpent, but the minimum unit size is 5.
- You only need 3-man jetbike squads. 3 bikes with a 2+ cover save all game from the warlocks should be all you need to get your points out of them. Also the warlocks accompanying them don't need spears. They are there to improve the unit's jink save. Assuming the unit will be jinking each turn, giving them a single shot spear is futile.
- Your Wraithlords shouldn't have mixed weapons on them. Choose 2 Bright lances, 2 Scatter lasers, or 2 Starcannons. This will make them more effective at shooting their dedicated targets.
- Necrons do not use psychic powers, so you can remove the runes of warding from your Farseer
- Your Wave Serpents should have dual Scatter Lasers, a Shuriken Cannon, and Holo-Fields. This will turn them into gunboats. If you can drop the quantum shielding from his vehicles with your falcon, fragons, wraithguard, or bright lance lords, the wave serpents will easily finish them off regardless of their jink save.
- Put a bright lance on your Falcon to better compliment it's pulse laser. This goes along with mixing roles on your wraithlords.
- From the looks of things you're running an unbound list. 3 HQ choices and 4 Heavy Support choices. It's fine if you want to do this, but your jetbikes and wave serpents will be a LOT better if you abide by the force org chart, because they will all get Objective Secured.

Bojazz wrote:

- From the looks of things you're running an unbound list. 3 HQ choices and 4 Heavy Support choices. It's fine if you want to do this, but your jetbikes and wave serpents will be a LOT better if you abide by the force org chart, because they will all get Objective Secured.

He's got 4 troops (dires, wraithguards and 2 units of jetbikes) so this list can easily be dual-CAD's, meaning all the troops are still OS.

dual-CAD or unbound is almost the same tbh.

WS don't need conceal, Spiritseers can't cast from the WS, and even if they could, you're paying 140 points for psykers which would buy you a new WS with all the toys.

You don't really have to be WYSIWYG unless you're at a tourney imo, so disregard what's on the models, or magnetize them.

If you run across the board to a Necron, you will be smashed every time.

The only reason an army would want to do that is if it had a lot of good assault units, in which case getting into assault would be worth entering the death bubble.

Your army is clearly more about shooting, it just lacks a bit of fine tuning and less point wasting (Spiritseers, Ghostglaive, ...)

I'm of the opinion that with the right tactics then any list can win (And don't say it can't, I've won with pure grot lists, just to see if I could).

so deployment is where it comes down to win or lose when you're playing tactically. so the first bit of that is objectives.

if you're playing tactical objectives, you'll want to try and ensure you can sit on at least 2 of the objectives for the best part of the game. try and hide some in the deployment zones, far back as possible, in cover. when you deploy, put the dire avengers from the waveserpent in the cover and you're free to pick up a point whenever that objective comes up. the waveserpent is now also free to go grab other objectives and be a gunship without worrying whether the guys inside will be out of position if it's wrecked.

with deployment, if you're playing on the long board edges, deploy your fast stuff on one flank and the slow stuff on the other, far back - don't let him get in range turn 1, and if he does, make him snapfire. ensure your waveserpents have their rear armour to the board edge so no deepstrikers will get behind them with S5 weaponry using the veil. I'd keep the falcon of fire dragons in reserves, so you can come on once he's closer without risking being crippled.

He'll do one of three things if you deploy first completely split up:

1: deploy focussed on the slow flank
2: deploy focussed on the fast flank
3: deploy split-up to try and deal with both.

if he does the first, then you're golden. let him come forward and back off, and keep him at least 1 turn in limbo where you can shoot and he can't. chances are there'll be something on the fast flank but waveserpents can deal with it. the waveserpents need to move to his side of the field, into the opposite corner to your slow flank. your army is now as far apart as possible against an army of short-ranged guns, and his fliers have to fly over the units they want to shoot. pick him off at range, pick up the objectives. in this instance the best place for the camping troops in a ruin-objective is in the middle of your army to make it less likely that they're noticed.

if he does the second, you're still good. use turn one to flat-out right back to your slow army, and use the slow elements to clear out any token units left to tie them up.

if he does the third, then you've got a bit of a fight on your hands. I'd back the waveserpents up but keep them in sight to fire off their shields at the necrons threatening the slow flank, and try to cripple this half of his army. second turn he'll be all over you, so if you can get out of there and aim for a position where he has to turn to shoot you. necron vehicles are really resilient, but their rear armour is still weak. get behind him and someone's getting the rear arc.

the jetseer council needs to be worrying about themselves, really. your best bet with them is if they can aim for the protect/jinx power and fortune. these 2 will suddenly make them nigh-on immortal. use singing spears to destroy vehicles, charge the contents and let the 2+ rerollable save see you through to killing off every necron in the unit. if you're lucky he'll shoot everything at them, and hey presto nothing's died.

how fast can a fire prism move? if it can do the whole move 12" flat out 36" then I'd use that to line up a dash for line-of-sight blocking terrain behind the necrons turn 1. people always expect eldar to blast away for their first turn, but I'd go for a sudden repositioning that sees you surrounded. whichever way he faces, someone will have a rear armour shot. and if he takes a turn or 2 to deal with the fire prism (which should be moving away every turn) then brilliant, that's another thing not shooting the rest of your army.

I really hope this helps. I don't play eldar but I think I'm good at "taktiks"