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2014/07/01 00:04:44
Subject: 1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar
Can't help but feel the Eldar player made a mistake by deploying the Serpents, better to present you with an invincible target. Probably should have been more aggressive with the council as well.
Can't imagine this going too well for the Eldar.
Bee beep boo baap
2014/07/01 00:29:26
Subject: Re:1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar
Hollismason wrote: Eagerly awaiting the updates, have subscribed your battle reports are great. However, please , please stop setting soda on top of your gaming table it drives me crazy.
Lol! That is my pre-game ritual. Before any competitive game, I usually get myself a large soda. I NEED it to last until the end of the game.
Yeah. This build is much, much different from GTA's seer council and I have to approach it differently. But regardless, I'm glad I got the chance to test my army against Casey's army.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LValx wrote: Can't help but feel the Eldar player made a mistake by deploying the Serpents, better to present you with an invincible target. Probably should have been more aggressive with the council as well.
Can't imagine this going too well for the Eldar.
I can understand his mentality. He was playing an army he wasn't very experienced with against an army he didn't know all that much about. On top of that, my reputation alone can be intimidating for some players, especially the ones who have followed my batreps. In the face of so much uncertainty, the natural tendency is to play it more conservatively and to react as opposed to being super-aggressive and possibly making critical mistakes in doing so.
Hollismason wrote: Well the Eldar player has a invincible unit almost with Invisibility and Fortune on that one unit that also has some serious threat.
Yeah. A seer council with Fortune is bad enough, but give it Invisibility as well and it becomes downright scary. Fortunately for me, without Empower or Hammerhand, he will have a much tougher time against heavy armor like my bargelords. That is my one saving grace in this game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/01 01:50:57
Hollismason wrote: Eagerly awaiting the updates, have subscribed your battle reports are great. However, please , please stop setting soda on top of your gaming table it drives me crazy.
But the store doesn't sell beer.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
However, the difference in this edition is that the supporting units - the wave serpents, the wraithknights, the resiliency of vehicles, etc. - have gotten better, thus compensating for any "nerfs" to the deathstars themselves. So whereas some may see the seer council as being nerfed (BTW, I am not one of them), overall, the army build has stayed the same or maybe even better due to the buffs to the rest of the army.
At least in this edition if you kill all of their Troops while retaining some of your own on objectives, the Council cannot just turbo boost all its characters to contest all over the board at the end.
Sometimes the bar eats you
2014/07/01 05:21:47
Subject: 1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar
Hollismason wrote: Great battle and great skill I do feel that the Eldar player may have been a little outclassed as this being his first time playing the army.
Very Good battle report.
Thanks. Yeah, he was playing an army he didn't have that much experience with against an army build that he probably didn't have much experience with as well. My experience against deathstars and Eldar definitely played a role in the outcome of this game.
Hollismason wrote: Eagerly awaiting the updates, have subscribed your battle reports are great. However, please , please stop setting soda on top of your gaming table it drives me crazy.
But the store doesn't sell beer.
Lol. I actually quite enjoy the game while intoxicated. I do that all the time while at tournaments. And so far, I am 0-2 while doing so.
However, the difference in this edition is that the supporting units - the wave serpents, the wraithknights, the resiliency of vehicles, etc. - have gotten better, thus compensating for any "nerfs" to the deathstars themselves. So whereas some may see the seer council as being nerfed (BTW, I am not one of them), overall, the army build has stayed the same or maybe even better due to the buffs to the rest of the army.
At least in this edition if you kill all of their Troops while retaining some of your own on objectives, the Council cannot just turbo boost all its characters to contest all over the board at the end.
They still can....as long as it isn't Objectives Secured troops that they are contesting. I have to admit, Necron troops have the advantage over Eldar troops. We can get to their jetbike troops or troops in skimmers more easily than they can get to our troops in flyers. That's why in a head-to-head battle, I feel that Necrons have a very slight advantage over Eldar. Of course all of this hinges on who is going 2nd....
Well, a valiant effort from Casey. I think he should have kept his serpents back and protected them while being more aggressive with the council or at the very least protecting his serpents with them.
S7 seems to be made for killing serpents and Jim's army had plenty of that! I honestly think the aoe shrouding power is amazing for serpents as a 2+ cover goes a long way in protecting serpents and anything else.
I also think the Eldar army could have used a Wraithknight or two .
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Wraith Knights aren't as scary as they used to be with the new jink rule and the more forgiving penetration table. I have been using three ghost arks in my army against an Eldar friend and if i don't kill the wraith knight with a D&D squad than I just ignore it altogether.
2014/07/01 17:52:42
Subject: 1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Wraithknight shooting has a good chance to pen Necron vehicles thereby knockin out quantum shielding at which point wave serpents can make short work of the things (s7 ignores cover is nice against AV 11). Not to mention, necron vehicls can be vulnerable to anything in combat with a decent S and AP. wraithknights are fast enough to catch the barges in CC.
Plus wraithknights look super cool!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 17:53:16
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
True, S10 shots are scary if they hit and pen and I don't jink on a 4+ but that's still not good odds. You need to hit on a 3+, then you have to pen on a 4+ and I have to not roll a 4+ to jink. I agree that once a ghost ark is penned, it usually isn't long for the game. I think the points are better spent on troops or more wave serpents since they are more survivable and have a bigger impact on the game.
Wraithknights can be scary in melee since they don't have to smash to get S10. If the opponent puts it in the middle of the board, I usually try to take it out with a D&D squad since that is almost a sure thing with seven deathmarks rapid firing and two despairteks.
2014/07/01 18:41:49
Subject: 1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
mortetvie wrote: I think he should have kept his serpents back and protected them while being more aggressive with the council or at the very least protecting his serpents with them.
Given Barges can move 12" and shoot 24" I dunno as there was any where to hold back with one Anni-Barge on each flank.
I will acknowledge that trying for a Maelstrom point with the last Serpent with the Necron Wraith nearby was a mistake.
mortetvie wrote: S7 seems to be made for killing serpents and Jim's army had plenty of that! I honestly think the aoe shrouding power is amazing for serpents as a 2+ cover goes a long way in protecting serpents and anything else.
I also think the Eldar army could have used a Wraithknight or two .
What's "aoe shrouding power" ? Just casting Conceal on 'em? Oh, I get it. Derp.
My list revision for BAO includes a WK. Tossing out the big BaronStar frees up points for lotsa toys, Warp Spiders, maybe WarWalkers, another MC, etc. More toys means more fun.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Casey, in the game your serpents seemed to die from shooting against rear armor or close combat so I think hanging back may have prevented them dying in that way. Also, the council could grab any objectives you may need for maelstrom and protect serpents from combat.
I wonder if taking a large jetbike unit with a single warlock and 2 farseers might not be a cheaper and interesting alternative to a full on seer counsel? Sure it lacks the 4+ invul saves from all those warlocks but with the right powers you might get that power (from divination) if facing ignores cover things and at the very least the unit will be objective secured! Besides uou can always have the baron/farseers tank a bit. This is just a random idea I have not tested out but it might be a fun and effective alternative!?
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Thanks for the game Casey. I believe there were 2 main reasons why I won in this matchup.
1. Serpent-spam mechdar does not match up well against AV13-spam. Necron vehicles can take out wave serpents better than wave serpents can take out Necron vehicles. The results of this battle are telling. Casey only took out 2 of my vehicles (an AB and my Warlord) and only through assault by the seer council whereas I decimated not only all of his vehicles, but all of his OS troops as well by the end of Turn 3. In order for Eldar to deal with Necron AV13-spam, you need either the Seer Council doing multi-assaults or wraithknights (or both!).
2. I have the experience edge. I've played against the seer council many times before (though this was back in 6E). I've also played against deathstar armies many times as well (I also play deathstar armies myself). I understand how they work and how to play against them. That was why I wasn't too concerned when my opponent got both Invisibility or Fortune. I never really intended to go after the seer council anyways as long as he presented to me other "targets".
On the other hand, I am not sure whether my opponent has played against an army quite like mine.
I am thinking that there just may be a change in the new Seer Council builds. The way to beat the seer council - actually, the way to beat most deathstars - is to ignore the deathstar itself and to go after the supporting units. Thus, I think the new Seer Council builds could be de-emphasizing on the deathstar itself and starting to emphasize on more and better complementary support units. Go with a smaller seer council and then add wave serpents, windrider jetbikes and wraithknights for a strong foundation that can still function properly without the seer council.
Eldar: (by Brothererekose)
Given that I went first and a first turn assault isn't legal, I think I did just fine with the DeathStar. I used them to assault the Warlord Turn 2, center table There was *not* an opportunity for a multi-assault at that time. I *might* have been better off directing all attacks against the Overlord, instead of his barge. I think the odds were against me in both cases, needing 10s to Glance or whittling my way through 2+ saves.
I actually did study up on Jim's list. That's why I didn't waste Serpent shots on the Annihilation Barges.
I got out played. Jim did exactly what I have read in many a forum: ignore or tarpit the DeathStar and wipe out all else. The formula for beating Serpent spam is simple and Jim executed it well. By the end of Turn 3, I didn't have much left.
My mistakes:
The rolls for Psy-powers might've been better chosen. I had the Warlocks stay on the Rituals table, but I successfully cast Invis&Fortune 3 outta 4 times. We discussed before rolling for powers that he as the owning player could direct a Psychic Shriek shot at his Barge instead of the Overlord.
I suppose some Biomancy?
The Kabalites. While 3 troops on that turn's objective sounds good, I'm wondering if they might've been more effective table East, my left flank.
I don't wanna claim, "Bad-llst match up" as that's a cop-out for being bad general. But five AV13 vehicles is a tough road-to-hoe with STR 7. Still, I got out played.
Hat's off to Jim.
Thanks for the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 22:39:18
You only have permission to allocate hits against the Chariot, and Psychic Shriek only needs to hit the unit for its ability to apply which is different than a normal weapon profile which could be resolved upon the Chariot. Wounds taken by the unit, have to go the only place they can, the Overlord. You only have permission to allocate hits to the chariot, but the hit from Psychic shriek does nothing, it's its special ability which deals wounds to the unit. The only legal place for wounds to go is on the Rider.
Psychic Shriek targets the unit, rolls to hit, hit allocated to the Chariot, hit invokes Psychic Shriek which deals wounds to the unit, which can only be resolved upon the rider as you have no permission to allocate wounds to the chariot.
mortetvie wrote: Well, a valiant effort from Casey. I think he should have kept his serpents back and protected them while being more aggressive with the council or at the very least protecting his serpents with them.
S7 seems to be made for killing serpents and Jim's army had plenty of that! I honestly think the aoe shrouding power is amazing for serpents as a 2+ cover goes a long way in protecting serpents and anything else.
I also think the Eldar army could have used a Wraithknight or two .
Yeah, Casey played his serpents a little too aggressively, moving them into harm's way.
However, with the maneuverability of my army - the bargelord and night scythes - there wasn't very many places where his serpents could have avoided my army. If he had played his seer council too aggressively, I could have just bypassed them with 30" moves by my bargelords into his backfield.
His other alternative would have been to reserve some or all of his wave serpents.
WK's are definitely a good counter to my AV13 vehicles.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Wraith Knights aren't as scary as they used to be with the new jink rule and the more forgiving penetration table. I have been using three ghost arks in my army against an Eldar friend and if i don't kill the wraith knight with a D&D squad than I just ignore it altogether.
On the other hand, they are also becoming more useful now more than ever as more and more people are starting to mech-up, especially since they haven't been affected at all by the Smash nerf that almost every other MC has been.
Warmonger2757 wrote: True, S10 shots are scary if they hit and pen and I don't jink on a 4+ but that's still not good odds. You need to hit on a 3+, then you have to pen on a 4+ and I have to not roll a 4+ to jink. I agree that once a ghost ark is penned, it usually isn't long for the game. I think the points are better spent on troops or more wave serpents since they are more survivable and have a bigger impact on the game.
Wraithknights can be scary in melee since they don't have to smash to get S10. If the opponent puts it in the middle of the board, I usually try to take it out with a D&D squad since that is almost a sure thing with seven deathmarks rapid firing and two despairteks.
One thing to note is that, while their shooting might not be as effective in this edition compared to previous, they are used more for board control than for their actual shooting. They also complement a mechdar army well. Wave serpents provide the firepower to take care of infantry and light armor. WK's do the heavy lifting against heavy armor, create an area of denial for your opponent and serve to protect your wave serpents.
the aoe shrouding power is amazing for serpents as a 2+ cover goes a long way in protecting serpents and anything else.
I also think the Eldar army could have used a Wraithknight or two .
What's "aoe shrouding power" ? Just casting Conceal on 'em? Oh, I get it. Derp.
My list revision for BAO includes a WK. Tossing out the big BaronStar frees up points for lotsa toys, Warp Spiders, maybe WarWalkers, another MC, etc. More toys means more fun.
What he meant was for your farseer to cast Shrouding from Telepathy if he can get it. That means all wave serpents within 6" of your farseer will be getting 2+ jink saves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mortetvie wrote: Casey, in the game your serpents seemed to die from shooting against rear armor or close combat so I think hanging back may have prevented them dying in that way. Also, the council could grab any objectives you may need for maelstrom and protect serpents from combat.
I wonder if taking a large jetbike unit with a single warlock and 2 farseers might not be a cheaper and interesting alternative to a full on seer counsel? Sure it lacks the 4+ invul saves from all those warlocks but with the right powers you might get that power (from divination) if facing ignores cover things and at the very least the unit will be objective secured! Besides uou can always have the baron/farseers tank a bit. This is just a random idea I have not tested out but it might be a fun and effective alternative!?
A large, buffed-up jetbike unit will definitely have very different tactics for them. For one thing, without witchblades, that unit isn't really a threat to my vehicles. I'd probably ignore them all the same.
Zagman wrote: Directing Psychic Shriek at the Barge?
You only have permission to allocate hits against the Chariot, and Psychic Shriek only needs to hit the unit for its ability to apply which is different than a normal weapon profile which could be resolved upon the Chariot. Wounds taken by the unit, have to go the only place they can, the Overlord. You only have permission to allocate hits to the chariot, but the hit from Psychic shriek does nothing, it's its special ability which deals wounds to the unit. The only legal place for wounds to go is on the Rider.
Psychic Shriek targets the unit, rolls to hit, hit allocated to the Chariot, hit invokes Psychic Shriek which deals wounds to the unit, which can only be resolved upon the rider as you have no permission to allocate wounds to the chariot.
Did the council not have spears? I saw no mention of shooting attacks, so pardon if they did. If they didn't, you need to get them. Spears are still S9 when thrown, giving you a 24" (after movement) twinlinked lascanon. Worst case scenario, you kill the target in shooting, and use your assault move to block off targets/eat fire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 03:39:00
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2014/07/02 04:15:44
Subject: Re:1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Dash2021 wrote: Did the council not have spears? I saw no mention of shooting attacks, so pardon if they did. If they didn't, you need to get them. Spears are still S9 when thrown, giving you a 24" (after movement) twinlinked lascanon. Worst case scenario, you kill the target in shooting, and use your assault move to block off targets/eat fire.
I don't believe my opponent really had the chance to use his spears in this game even if he had them.
On Turn 2, only the front warlock could see my Warlord to make the assault.
On Turn 3, if the unit did have spears and used them, there would have been a good chance that they would have killed whatever they were shooting. That would have then taken away their multi-assault against both my Warlord and an AB.
You can gain even more movement from assault. You gain distance from the assault itself. You can then use Hit-&-Run to springboard off of the assault to gain even more distance.
To me, the only real advantage of singing spears is that you can chuck them at flyers that you can't assault. Otherwise, it is usually better to try to go for the multi-assault whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Eldar should have reserved everything but council and gone second.
Keeps the WS/Hawks safe for as long as possible from the Tesla and allows you to counter the movement of the Scythes. DS list needs to either provide all super tough targets (Council + WKs) or reserve the other parts/counter deploy defensively. If you give a smart player the choice, they will shoot down support units as opposed to wasting firepower.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 04:33:21
Bee beep boo baap
2014/07/02 16:53:16
Subject: Re:1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Dash2021 wrote: Did the council not have spears? I saw no mention of shooting attacks, so pardon if they did. If they didn't, you need to get them. Spears are still S9 when thrown, giving you a 24" (after movement) twinlinked lascanon. Worst case scenario, you kill the target in shooting, and use your assault move to block off targets/eat fire.
I don't believe my opponent really had the chance to use his spears in this game even if he had them.
On Turn 2, only the front warlock could see my Warlord to make the assault.
On Turn 3, if the unit did have spears and used them, there would have been a good chance that they would have killed whatever they were shooting. That would have then taken away their multi-assault against both my Warlord and an AB.
You can gain even more movement from assault. You gain distance from the assault itself. You can then use Hit-&-Run to springboard off of the assault to gain even more distance.
To me, the only real advantage of singing spears is that you can chuck them at flyers that you can't assault. Otherwise, it is usually better to try to go for the multi-assault whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Especially against necrons they're gold, helping to get rid of quantum shielding. Using clever positioning, it's not at all dificult to limit your number of shots to not kill the target and still allow the charge to go off. They are great tools to strip 1/2 hull points off prior to assault to garuntee killingyour charge target in assault and allow your attacks in the second turn to be directed toward the secondary or tertiary assault targets.
There is a lot of finess that goes into utilizing a council to its fullest, and to do well with this list you really need to squeak every bit of utility out of the unit. As you demonstrated its entirely too easy to ignore the council and go after the rest of the army if your not taking out 2+ units/turn with the council after turn 1.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2014/07/02 19:05:12
Subject: 1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
LValx wrote: Eldar should have reserved everything but council and gone second.
I agree that going second is better with the BAO scoring mechanism for the secondary Maelstrom missions. Perhaps too much so.
A couple games since and I am beginning to think more so. Jury is still out. I went two games with no Baronstar. I added a WK, WL, WarpS, minimum Warlord (autarch). One close game I lost by a point (Sternguard Drop Pods) and another game (vs. DEMSU) won by a larger margin and I went second.
Need more games in to for a clearer opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 19:09:55
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
This was an interesting game. It surprised me to see a Bargelord go head on with the council and make it out alive. As I don't play Eldar, I don't know if it was a mistake because of the first time playing the Seer Council, but it seems to me like it really didn't to much. Of course this also means props to Jim for playing around it and mitigating damage, but I would have expected it to be a lot more bloody. Had it failed Fortune and Invis about a turn or two earlier, would you have gone in and multi-assaulted it with what CC units were near by?
I thought this batrep was a good example of WS in 7th too. From what it seemed, once you cracked it open, the DA inside were a piece of cake. IMO the hype about WS is true when you spam them, but in this case, taking them as support, they are good, but you have points into your council, you are relying on it more for damage and drawing fire than your OS troops and transports, in this case the Seer Council didn't work well so I believe it led to the demise of the Eldar to the Metallic Dead.
2014/07/13 23:34:42
Subject: Re:1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Dash2021 wrote: Did the council not have spears? I saw no mention of shooting attacks, so pardon if they did. If they didn't, you need to get them. Spears are still S9 when thrown, giving you a 24" (after movement) twinlinked lascanon. Worst case scenario, you kill the target in shooting, and use your assault move to block off targets/eat fire.
I don't believe my opponent really had the chance to use his spears in this game even if he had them.
On Turn 2, only the front warlock could see my Warlord to make the assault.
On Turn 3, if the unit did have spears and used them, there would have been a good chance that they would have killed whatever they were shooting. That would have then taken away their multi-assault against both my Warlord and an AB.
You can gain even more movement from assault. You gain distance from the assault itself. You can then use Hit-&-Run to springboard off of the assault to gain even more distance.
To me, the only real advantage of singing spears is that you can chuck them at flyers that you can't assault. Otherwise, it is usually better to try to go for the multi-assault whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Especially against necrons they're gold, helping to get rid of quantum shielding. Using clever positioning, it's not at all dificult to limit your number of shots to not kill the target and still allow the charge to go off. They are great tools to strip 1/2 hull points off prior to assault to garuntee killingyour charge target in assault and allow your attacks in the second turn to be directed toward the secondary or tertiary assault targets.
There is a lot of finess that goes into utilizing a council to its fullest, and to do well with this list you really need to squeak every bit of utility out of the unit. As you demonstrated its entirely too easy to ignore the council and go after the rest of the army if your not taking out 2+ units/turn with the council after turn 1.
I guess if you have a few points left, then it wouldn't really hurt to go with some spears.
Don't have my rulebook with me, but aren't singing spears 2-handed weapons? Wouldn't you lose a close combat attack in Assault with them? That would probably be the main reason why I wouldn't take them, unless their rules have changed in this edition. They need to rely on multi-assaults and volume of attacks in Assault to really be able to justify their points.
LValx wrote: Eldar should have reserved everything but council and gone second.
I agree that going second is better with the BAO scoring mechanism for the secondary Maelstrom missions. Perhaps too much so.
A couple games since and I am beginning to think more so. Jury is still out. I went two games with no Baronstar. I added a WK, WL, WarpS, minimum Warlord (autarch). One close game I lost by a point (Sternguard Drop Pods) and another game (vs. DEMSU) won by a larger margin and I went second.
Need more games in to for a clearer opinion.
Going 2nd in this year's BAO is no different from going 2nd in previous BAO's....or almost any other tourney for that matter. Normally, it is more advantageous to go 2nd. However, there are situations where you really would want to go 1st:
1. VP missions.
2. The Relic.
3. You are an army that relies on a strong alpha-strike to potentially cripple your opponent.
4. Certain armies - including psychic-heavy armies or flyer armies - going up against a strong alpha-strike army. These armies need to go 1st to setup their defenses. FMC's need to get up into the air. Psychic armies need to cast their psychic buffs.
Commander_Farsight wrote: This was an interesting game. It surprised me to see a Bargelord go head on with the council and make it out alive. As I don't play Eldar, I don't know if it was a mistake because of the first time playing the Seer Council, but it seems to me like it really didn't to much. Of course this also means props to Jim for playing around it and mitigating damage, but I would have expected it to be a lot more bloody. Had it failed Fortune and Invis about a turn or two earlier, would you have gone in and multi-assaulted it with what CC units were near by?
I thought this batrep was a good example of WS in 7th too. From what it seemed, once you cracked it open, the DA inside were a piece of cake. IMO the hype about WS is true when you spam them, but in this case, taking them as support, they are good, but you have points into your council, you are relying on it more for damage and drawing fire than your OS troops and transports, in this case the Seer Council didn't work well so I believe it led to the demise of the Eldar to the Metallic Dead.
The bargelord can actually hold off the seer council for a while as long as it hasn't been penetrated yet. S3+2D6 isn't reliable in taking out AV13 unless the seer council can get Hammerhand or Empower. As for the council not doing much, that is because I spread out against it, thus denying it the multi-assaults that it so craves. Just remember, that is how you play against the seer council and/or beaststar (or any fast Daemon deathstar). DO NOT castle up and give your opponent the multi-assaults. Had he failed Invis and Fortune earlier on, yeah, I'd probably have gone after his seer council.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
And so far, I am 0-2 while doing so. 
.
