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Thanks ahead of time for the answers provided.
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Flyer movement; page 84 ZOOM; second paragraph; "... a Zooming Flyer can only make a single pivot on the spot of "up to" 90 degrees..."
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Q) This the SAME GW terminologie "up to" as a weapon? page 74 third paragraph; "... up to 45 degrees..." and image of Leman Russ on the top right; Arc of sight 2, which means 22.5 degrees Left, and 22.5 degrees right.
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Thus a Zooming Flyer can pivot 45 degrees left, or 45 degrees right.
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Pretty simple, but well you know the arguments will ensue.
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for #2, it is not that you can only kill what you can see, it is if there are no visible models then the wound pool empties. Also only If none of the firing models can draw a line of sight to a particular model in the target unit, then Wounds cannot be allocated to it.

Chances are that some part of the character is visible to a firing model.

 DeathReaper wrote:
for #2, it is not that you can only kill what you can see, it is if there are no visible models then the wound pool empties. Also only If none of the firing models can draw a line of sight to a particular model in the target unit, then Wounds cannot be allocated to it.

Chances are that some part of the character is visible to a firing model.

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Right, so if a precise shot or etc. is allocated to a model that is not in LoS, the shot (wound) is wasted (lost).
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Note; 7e is more than just "some part" of the model visible (6e was head and shoulders).
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Thanks!

Vehicle weapon arc of fire is different from Flyer turning in the very concept of what is being discussed.

For Hull mounted Arc of fire you have a total 45* arc, this is left-right 45* total.

For Zooming Flyer turning you are allowed 1 turn of up to 90*, this is a 90* turn in either direction(but only 1).

The wording is very different.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


For Zooming Flyer turning you are allowed 1 turn of up to 90*, this is a 90* turn in either direction(but only 1).

The wording is very different.

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No, the wording is exactly the same; "up to" [/b ] xyz degrees.
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Please reference the page numbers I posted.

It does [b]not say; "... 90 degree turn in either direction..." it says "up to" just like for hull mounted weapon. All we have to go by is GW terminologie.
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Additionally, swivel and turn are exactly the same by definition.
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So, swivel/turn up to xyz degrees means the same in both instances.
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Thanks.
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rexscarlet wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


For Zooming Flyer turning you are allowed 1 turn of up to 90*, this is a 90* turn in either direction(but only 1).

The wording is very different.

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No, the wording is exactly the same; "up to" [/b ] xyz degrees.
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Please reference the page numbers I posted.

It does [b]not say; "... 90 degree turn in either direction..." it says "up to" just like for hull mounted weapon. All we have to go by is GW terminologie.
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Additionally, swivel and turn are exactly the same by definition.
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So, swivel/turn up to xyz degrees means the same in both instances.
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Thanks.
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You looking at it wrong. Making a 90 degree turn left or right would give you a 180 degree turning arc.
They are not worded the same.
The weapon rule is referring to an arc measurement, which is different than a 90 degrees left or right turn.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Vehicle weapon arc of fire is different from Flyer turning in the very concept of what is being discussed.

For Hull mounted Arc of fire you have a total 45* arc, this is left-right 45* total.

For Zooming Flyer turning you are allowed 1 turn of up to 90*, this is a 90* turn in either direction(but only 1).

The wording is very different.

This, and it is very clear

How are they different? They are both worded exactly the same in their definitions, exactly.
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Vehicle Weapon LoS definition does not say Arc anywhere, it says; "up to" xyz degrees. But it does have an Arc of sight illustration; Arc of Sight 1, 2, 3, 4.
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Flyer Turning definition it says "up to" xyz degrees, so, we refer to both rules for clarification.
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There are two things that make them different

1. The inclusion of the word "arc." This tells us that the TOTAL amount we are allowed to turn is 45 degress.
2. The inclusion of the Diagram. This shows us the where the center point of the 45 degree limit lies. (inline with the weapon)

The flier rules have neither of these. The simply say that we are allowed to turn up to 90 degrees. Wheteher you turn left or right, you have permission to turn up to 90 degrees from the starting point.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
There are two things that make them different

1. The inclusion of the word "arc." This tells us that the TOTAL amount we are allowed to turn is 45 degress.
2. The inclusion of the Diagram. This shows us the where the center point of the 45 degree limit lies. (inline with the weapon)

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1) Yes, the word Arc is in the second paragraph page 74 "...
2) Yes, I already pointed out the diagram/illustration and the title in the box "Arc of Sight 1, 2, 3, 4" above.
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FYI Here is how we interpret it since 6e; http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/08/40k-flying-vehicle-flight-routes.html
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So, I do agree, was looking for RaW not interpretations.
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Thanks all! now for the next one.
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rexscarlet wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
There are two things that make them different

1. The inclusion of the word "arc." This tells us that the TOTAL amount we are allowed to turn is 45 degress.
2. The inclusion of the Diagram. This shows us the where the center point of the 45 degree limit lies. (inline with the weapon)

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1) Yes, the word Arc is in the second paragraph page 74 "...
2) Yes, I already pointed out the diagram/illustration and the title in the box "Arc of Sight 1, 2, 3, 4" above.
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FYI Here is how we interpret it since 6e; http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/08/40k-flying-vehicle-flight-routes.html
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So, I do agree, was looking for RaW not interpretations.
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Thanks all! now for the next one.
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I gave you RAW.

If you are in a car and turn 90 degrees to the left, that's 90 degrees. But you can also turn 90 degrees to the right instead.

That means you have a 180 degree "arc" that you could turn from the vehicles centerline. This is the fundamental difference you are missing.

If the hull mounted weapon said "it can pivot and fire 90 degrees to the left or right". Then they would be worded the same and making an apples to apples comparison.