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Anvildude wrote:
Basically, the Ork's version of "Objective Secured" is "There's no more enemies alive to claim that objective".

Spoken like a true ork!

My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

 Bludbaff wrote:
My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

Take Waagh! Ghazghkull's "Da Great Waagh!" Detachment.
Deep Striking Gretchin. I'm not even kidding.

... and now I need to play Orks, thanks Kanluwen. Well, need to play codex: gretchin.

 Yonan wrote:
... and now I need to play Orks, thanks Kanluwen. Well, need to play codex: gretchin.

Bear in mind it's on a roll of 5+, but anything besides Flyers can Deep Strike in that detachment.

Anything.

Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

Trukks are fast, looted wagons are not.

Besides that, the main reason for taking trukks over looted wagons would be dedicated transport. Loosing all the additional rules from battleforged isn't really worth side-grading your trukks to looted wagons. Just ask a marine players how long rhinos survive during their games.

Anvildude wrote:
Basically, the Ork's version of "Objective Secured" is "There's no more enemies alive to claim that objective".

Pretty much. The armies in 7th (not just orks) are going to echo 4th Ed ones soon enough, minimum troops and maximum everything else. If I kill your troops, you lose objective secured as well. Trukk boyz are suicidal, big mobz are wasteful, 'Ard boyz are expensive, and grotz are runty. The only difference is Ive seen 40pt grot units win games.

 Jingles wrote:
Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

No.

Don't let GW turn you into a guinea pig to try and get unbound going, reationalizing it as "well to even compete I NEED to be unbound" There is soooo much garbage out there that unbound just makes the game stupid, period. This is coming from someone who has played in an unbound tournament against MULTIPE 2 transcendent c'tan armies. If the cheezeheads in my area somehow got unbound popular, I know at least half the guys here would instantly drop it.

The best thing you can do is write in like me, asking for a faq to make it so SOMETHING can have the looted wagon as a dedicated transport.

Do not fall for unbound. You may use it as fluff, someone else will use it to live out their power fantasy and drive potential new players away.

It does seem like the new Ork dex is pushing in the direction of unbound armies. It will be interesting to see how the next few dex behave.

 Orock wrote:

 Jingles wrote:
Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

No.

Don't let GW turn you into a guinea pig to try and get unbound going, reationalizing it as "well to even compete I NEED to be unbound" There is soooo much garbage out there that unbound just makes the game stupid, period. This is coming from someone who has played in an unbound tournament against MULTIPE 2 transcendent c'tan armies. If the cheezeheads in my area somehow got unbound popular, I know at least half the guys here would instantly drop it.

The best thing you can do is write in like me, asking for a faq to make it so SOMETHING can have the looted wagon as a dedicated transport.

Do not fall for unbound. You may use it as fluff, someone else will use it to live out their power fantasy and drive potential new players away.

+1. If there's one truth that I'd elaborate on its that we can't abuse unbound as much as other armies.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:
My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

Take Waagh! Ghazghkull's "Da Great Waagh!" Detachment.
Deep Striking Gretchin. I'm not even kidding.

I havent really played since 4th edition.. even though I bought the fifth and sixth edition rulebooks...like a good GW drone. I ahve seen these terms "detahcments" and "supplemental codex" thrown around QUITE a bit in the past week or two. I have the new ork codex and wondering if you wouldnt mind briefly ELI5 what they are for me? Thanks so much. I plan on buying the 7th rulebook..but this damn newborn needs diapers and food again

Edit: also.. I read someone say you can still take a looted wagon via rules in WD. How can you use something thats not listed in the codex... but in a magazine...?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They got stuck with this all-choppy-all-the-time image because they got stuck with BS2 for some reason during the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition and because of Andy Chambers' terrible 3rd edition codex. Previously, they played more like zany IG.

I don't understand the "terrible Codex" moniker for the 3rd edition.

Andy Chambers created the burna boys unit, the tankbustas unit, killa kans as a distinct unit from Deff Dreads, trukks as a distinction from Battlewagons, as well as the 'ardboys (and skarboys) options. He added Snikkrot and Zaggstruk and kept Nazdreg.

Kommandos were no longer limited to just Blood Axe clans and you could loot a wide variety of Imperial vehicles. We complain about losing Bikers and Nobs as troops, but we used to be able to take Burnaboyz and Tankbustas as troops!

Are there a lot of players out there who hate Tankbustas, Burna Boys, Killa Kans, Trukks, and Ardboys? Do most people rejoice that Wazzdakka is gone? Do they wish that Snikkrot, and Zaggstruk would go away? Are they glad we can't field Nazdreg any more?

I definitely see the reduction in the absolute gonzo zaniness of 1st edition, but that happened to every single army. No army pays for rolls on random wargear charts anymore. No army rolls for the number of models in a unit that you can buy. I'm not saying that the codex was perfect (Choppa rule was useful, but nonsensical, etc.), but a lot of the stuff that we now consider essentially orky stuff was added during the Overfiend's edition.

Think about an ork codex without:

Skikkrot
Zaggstruk
Burnaboys
Tankbustas
Looted Wagons
Trukks
Killa Kans

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

*I'm not saying the 2nd edition was bad. I loved the crazy weapons. I think boarboyz were awesome. I just don't get the hate for the 3rd edition codex.

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

What kind of shooty? Shooty orks are so viable right now.

 Multimoog wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

What kind of shooty? Shooty orks are so viable right now.

Well 3rd back then was very uh...Non shooty, it was the opposite of wave serpents where you wanted to charge forward and kill things in assault.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just don't get the hate for the 3rd edition codex.

BS 2

All heavy weapon choices were inferior versions of imperial counterparts

BS 2

No more 20 Mega Armored Bad Moon Nobz with Lascannons.

BS 2

No more Hop Splat Gun

Oh, and BS 2

My problem with the 3rd ed codex was that the background was non-existent. There were maybe 2-3 pages of fluff in the entire book, one of which was an often misunderstood imperial propaganda piece that's still responsible for a lot of misconceptions about Orks. Thankfully the last of the Psychic resonance myth has been removed from the latest codex (or at least has been as far as I know).

Since Orks were completely and utterly removed from their 2nd ed counterparts, the only sources of reliable background info came from the stupidly small fluff sections in the codex and Gorkamorka. While Gorkamorka was great, it was also hard to get at the time and was focused on a relatively small community of Orks so had no details about any of the great Waaaghs.

Reading through the Ghaz supplement and realizing it changes EVERYTHING about the main codex. It's completely possible to have any kind of playstyle and field a viable army. I've spent the morning making different lists in Quartermaster and the available variety is ridiculous. LOVE IT.

Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

ere we go : cool ability and with the new waagh gives the warboss something else to set him apart from other HQ choices, than just being a tough cc badguy

Mob rule : I really like the idea behind mob rule, I just think its results are a bit too harsh.
wargear, generally its cool. I can see the sense behind making rokkits cheaper and skorchas more expensive. I dont like that so much of the fluff text has gone though. And its a shame about cybork body. but at least it can be taken together with the armour save and not instead of.

I generally like the HQ choices, especially the weirdboy. Zagstrukk has been nerfed too much for my taste though.

I can see the sense behind making shootaboyz more expensive. But they could atleast have given the trukk a 5+ penetration negation roll, as a small sorry for gettin rid of the real ramshackle rule.
I dont like that its more expensive to have large grot units than before. (if I want several squighounds like the old days)

I still like burnaboyz, and like how the tankbustas turned out. Nobz/manz are still cool, even without a dedicated painboss. Kommandos and snikrot are excelent, most had already guessed he wouldnt be able to assault from reserves anyway.

Stormboyz are nice and cheap, I think I will reserve their double run ability for my waagh though.

I love that I already have a bunch of deffkoptas, altough its a shame the bigboom didnt get better/decreased in cost.
Ive already converted some deffkoptas to buggies, and I like em. Although I do think they kinda do the same job as deffkoptas, maybe I should look at someskorchas instead of only rokkit buggies. But I hate they still have the old models.
Cheap warbikes too bad I only have like 3 (and 8 or so of the old 2nd ed)

Mek gunz although I dont like the cash price on the new models, and the old models are, well old.

Deffrolla meh

Deffdread and Killa kans I actually love their new rules. Cowardly grots is a great one and very fluffy, I kinda hope my grot tanks gets something like that too. If only they would have done something more fun/stupid than just being shaken, but oh well. I furthermore like that their CCW have been nerfed, I found it odd that 95% of all dreads had S10 ap2 weapons. With those fluffy nerfs I dont think their point increase is totally valid though. 55pts for a skorcha kan?

Gorka/morkanauts I like them, but i find their lack of options a real shame. and they would have been awesome as assault transports. Lootas made sense to be moved to heavy. Love the flash gitz, especially the models. But I find the 6+ save crazy low, and I hate their lack of gun options (and eavy armour option). With that lousy save, people are gonna run them in opentopped vehicles, where you cant marvel at their fantastic sculpts (well at least not all 10 of them).


I usually shy away from big points games, so the formation isnt that great for me :/


Overall I like the codex , but I had hoped for more new material as well. Many paragraphs have been copypasted and thats a shame. And I think its negative that they wont have rules for models they havent produced yet.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

He formations are all awesome and worth taking on their own as armies (I desperately want to field both a Green Tode and a Council of Waaagh in the same game). The new relics rework how basic units play (big bosspole giving units of boyz back fearless, among other things).

One complaint - I got the ebook version from iTunes, and it doesn't seem to have the new warlord traits table. Has anyone else encountered this? Am I just not flipping to the right section?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

i was referring to any supplement there not the ghazzy one, i dont have the ghazzy one.



Also the Mob Rule really isnt that bad. I have rolled on that chart many many times and either bypassed the "More than 10" result via bosspole for my MANz, rolled average or below average on the D6 of wounds, or managed to save a couple via t-shirt saves for my boyz.
3 games, lost count how many mob charts ive rolled on, only actually taken 4 wounds. Remember its AFTER a failed morale/pinning check and its D6 HITS not wounds. Thats an average of 3 Hits, which translate to 1-2 wounds. If you have anything besides a t-shirt you'll probably save it, and even a t-shirt can block it sometimes.

Britneyfan12 wrote:

ere we go : cool ability and with the new waagh gives the warboss something else to set him apart from other HQ choices, than just being a tough cc badguy

Mob rule : I really like the idea behind mob rule, I just think its results are a bit too harsh.
wargear, generally its cool. I can see the sense behind making rokkits cheaper and skorchas more expensive. I dont like that so much of the fluff text has gone though. And its a shame about cybork body. but at least it can be taken together with the armour save and not instead of.

I generally like the HQ choices, especially the weirdboy. Zagstrukk has been nerfed too much for my taste though.

I can see the sense behind making shootaboyz more expensive. But they could atleast have given the trukk a 5+ penetration negation roll, as a small sorry for gettin rid of the real ramshackle rule.
I dont like that its more expensive to have large grot units than before. (if I want several squighounds like the old days)

I still like burnaboyz, and like how the tankbustas turned out. Nobz/manz are still cool, even without a dedicated painboss. Kommandos and snikrot are excelent, most had already guessed he wouldnt be able to assault from reserves anyway.

Stormboyz are nice and cheap, I think I will reserve their double run ability for my waagh though.

I love that I already have a bunch of deffkoptas, altough its a shame the bigboom didnt get better/decreased in cost.
Ive already converted some deffkoptas to buggies, and I like em. Although I do think they kinda do the same job as deffkoptas, maybe I should look at someskorchas instead of only rokkit buggies. But I hate they still have the old models.
Cheap warbikes too bad I only have like 3 (and 8 or so of the old 2nd ed)

Mek gunz although I dont like the cash price on the new models, and the old models are, well old.

Deffrolla meh

Deffdread and Killa kans I actually love their new rules. Cowardly grots is a great one and very fluffy, I kinda hope my grot tanks gets something like that too. If only they would have done something more fun/stupid than just being shaken, but oh well. I furthermore like that their CCW have been nerfed, I found it odd that 95% of all dreads had S10 ap2 weapons. With those fluffy nerfs I dont think their point increase is totally valid though. 55pts for a skorcha kan?

Gorka/morkanauts I like them, but i find their lack of options a real shame. and they would have been awesome as assault transports. Lootas made sense to be moved to heavy. Love the flash gitz, especially the models. But I find the 6+ save crazy low, and I hate their lack of gun options (and eavy armour option). With that lousy save, people are gonna run them in opentopped vehicles, where you cant marvel at their fantastic sculpts (well at least not all 10 of them).


I usually shy away from big points games, so the formation isnt that great for me :/


Overall I like the codex , but I had hoped for more new material as well. Many paragraphs have been copypasted and thats a shame. And I think its negative that they wont have rules for models they havent produced yet.

MY EYES!

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

He formations are all awesome and worth taking on their own as armies (I desperately want to field both a Green Tode and a Council of Waaagh in the same game). The new relics rework how basic units play (big bosspole giving units of boyz back fearless, among other things).

One complaint - I got the ebook version from iTunes, and it doesn't seem to have the new warlord traits table. Has anyone else encountered this? Am I just not flipping to the right section?

Yeah i got the same problem (no warlord traits). Epub/mobi version. I guess i need to write to them if they haven't realised

 krodarklorr wrote:
like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

heh, me too. Though there are still things I love about 40k. I for one, like the new ork book, though I'm glad I still have the old one. I do think it maybe was a little bland as far as storytelling is concerned. It focused a lot more on the history of the orks rather than have interesting stories about individual orks. Sometimes those appeared as footnotes, but there was no story of "Tuska Da Daemon Killa" or of "The War of Dakka" (though there was some mention of it in the Kaptin Badrukk blurbs)

Most of the units, didn't change all that much as far as rules go. As far as rules goes, they're just about the same. I actually like the trukk a lot more now than I did the last time I played it (which was 5th edition) The SAG is EXACTLY the same as it was. Mob rule is brutal, but fluffy, and there are ways to mitigate it (it also means that you're not gonna run away as long as you have boyz to punch.) I love the fact that stikkbombs are now free! The most painful part to me is the massive nerf to Cybork Bodies. Orks now have no invulnerable save in close combat. There are few things that can instakill your warboss, so if you have a painboy with him he's relatively hard to kill, but it still bugs me that orks don't have access to any of the tools to really survive close combat with a 'ard unit like paladins or terminators.

It also slightly bothers me that orks really need all three HQ slots from their specialist FOC. The loss of objective secured, and the fat that your only ally of convenience is Chaos daemons, is a little bit troublesome. What do you get in return? A hammer of wrath that may never go off (since you gotta roll that 10" charge).

Edit: Actually yeah, I'll say it this way. The new ork codex is devoted to supporting ork boyz, which I'm totally fine with. Though this does mean I might need more boyz.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

i was referring to any supplement there not the ghazzy one, i dont have the ghazzy one.



Also the Mob Rule really isnt that bad. I have rolled on that chart many many times and either bypassed the "More than 10" result via bosspole for my MANz, rolled average or below average on the D6 of wounds, or managed to save a couple via t-shirt saves for my boyz.
3 games, lost count how many mob charts ive rolled on, only actually taken 4 wounds. Remember its AFTER a failed morale/pinning check and its D6 HITS not wounds. Thats an average of 3 Hits, which translate to 1-2 wounds. If you have anything besides a t-shirt you'll probably save it, and even a t-shirt can block it sometimes.

I feel you need to reread that rule. The last sentence says if your unit is smaller than ten models it JUST fails the moral/pinning test. But maybe I am miss reading you.

 starbomber109 wrote:
The SAG is EXACTLY the same as it was.

That's not true at all. He doesn't blow up a chunk of a unit on snake eyes and his double six is a Vortex. It's a small buff but it's noticeable.

Theres a third and rather MAJOR change to the SAG.

A roll of 5 + 6 fires at S10 through the peephole of the large blast, just like before, HOWEVER it does not mention he cannot fire the next shooting phase. Last codex it did, and i have no idea how many times i have rolled that and gotten pissed because its nigh impossible to land that shot and i dont even get to attempt one next turn.
Removing the second part of that paragraph made me happy enough. Making boxcars a Str D Vortex Pi Plate and snake eyes only removing him just made my grin goto Peanuts' level of wide lol.

I feel you need to reread that rule. The last sentence says if your unit is smaller than ten models it JUST fails the moral/pinning test. But maybe I am miss reading you.

I think you misunderstood me. By bypassing the more than 10 requirement i meant i used a bosspole to reroll it into the one requiring a character, not simply ignoring the rule entirely. And i know you only take the hits if you meet the requirements to pass the test, but i didnt fail because i had a character in the reroll result.