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Echolocation? Now THAT would be impressive.

Ok, A-10s are low flying ground support planes and it's reasonable to believe a marine with his sharpened senses could grab one out of the air with a lascannon. But what about 30? 50? More? Any lascannon shooting the warthogs aren't shooting at the Abrams. Saturate the marines with targets and through attrition we'll get em!... Hopefully. Maybe?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Fair enough about the M4 vs las gun. I had just been going off the auto gun=lasgun (which in itself may not be true, but game wise it is) and auto gun= modern day assault rifle (again May not be true). It's all I had to go off.

I'll still assume that an M4 can go through the eye lenses of a marines helmet or some of the softer joints in his armor though.

Also, Orks are fantastic.

You have to remember as well in 40K that autoguns are fifty caliber rifles normally. The eye lense is also reinforced, and Astartes consider the loss of an eyeball a flesh wound.

I was so afraid of them being .50 caliber. So afraid. And now that it seems my fears are realized, so stupid. The idea of some dude running around with a .50 cal shoulder fired fully automatic weapon hurts my shoulder just thinking about it.

True enough about the loss of an eyeball being a flesh wound. However both? Now it's interesting. Perhaps he will be disabled long enough for a team to maneuver around and throw some C4 or something on him and take him out.

Also, I'm pretty confident a HEAT round from an M1 Abrams will punch right through a ceremite chest plate.

And are we ignoring air support? Because that's different. I'm not denying marines outclass well, me. But I've also got support from the likes of A-10s and AC-130s.

A-10's and AC-130's would be one-shotted by Lascannons, beautiful weapons those things are.

Also, if a space marine lost both his eyes... hm. Echolocation?

A drone out of visual sight launches a pinpoint cruise missile onto the devastator squad. No more lascannons.

Space Marines fight really dumb. Why engage with the enemy at close range when you can just mark him up with two men in a tower block to guide a missile, launched from kilometres away, straight onto him? It's completely pointless and obsolete. Add in the fact that any opponent who has fought against chapters who follow the codex astartes religiously for any length of time can predict exactly what they will do in response to a strategy makes Space Marines a very easily beaten force.

We wouldn't fight Marines on their own terms as we'd lose. We'd fight them on our own terms, with guerilla warfare, ambushes and a non-rigid fighting style.

 Ignatius wrote:
Echolocation? Now THAT would be impressive.

Ok, A-10s are low flying ground support planes and it's reasonable to believe a marine with his sharpened senses could grab one out of the air with a lascannon. But what about 30? 50? More? Any lascannon shooting the warthogs aren't shooting at the Abrams. Saturate the marines with targets and through attrition we'll get em!... Hopefully. Maybe?

Uh, I'm pretty sure we don't have fifty active A-10's. I thought the Air Force cut the number down to thirty or something as they decommission the A10's for being obsolete. And you don't fly 50 CAS in the same area, that's bloody suicide for the pilots and almost guarantees a crash. The only surefire to take out space marines is drop enough bombs to glass the area and cross your fingers they didn't run from the explosion. Although considering they probably landed in a highly populated area, that probably won't be an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Fair enough about the M4 vs las gun. I had just been going off the auto gun=lasgun (which in itself may not be true, but game wise it is) and auto gun= modern day assault rifle (again May not be true). It's all I had to go off.

I'll still assume that an M4 can go through the eye lenses of a marines helmet or some of the softer joints in his armor though.

Also, Orks are fantastic.

You have to remember as well in 40K that autoguns are fifty caliber rifles normally. The eye lense is also reinforced, and Astartes consider the loss of an eyeball a flesh wound.

I was so afraid of them being .50 caliber. So afraid. And now that it seems my fears are realized, so stupid. The idea of some dude running around with a .50 cal shoulder fired fully automatic weapon hurts my shoulder just thinking about it.

True enough about the loss of an eyeball being a flesh wound. However both? Now it's interesting. Perhaps he will be disabled long enough for a team to maneuver around and throw some C4 or something on him and take him out.

Also, I'm pretty confident a HEAT round from an M1 Abrams will punch right through a ceremite chest plate.

And are we ignoring air support? Because that's different. I'm not denying marines outclass well, me. But I've also got support from the likes of A-10s and AC-130s.

A-10's and AC-130's would be one-shotted by Lascannons, beautiful weapons those things are.

Also, if a space marine lost both his eyes... hm. Echolocation?

A drone out of visual sight launches a pinpoint cruise missile onto the devastator squad. No more lascannons.

Space Marines fight really dumb. Why engage with the enemy at close range when you can just mark him up with two men in a tower block to guide a missile, launched from kilometres away, straight onto him? It's completely pointless and obsolete. Add in the fact that any opponent who has fought against chapters who follow the codex astartes religiously for any length of time can predict exactly what they will do in response to a strategy makes Space Marines a very easily beaten force.

We wouldn't fight Marines on their own terms as we'd lose. We'd fight them on our own terms, with guerilla warfare, ambushes and a non-rigid fighting style.

Uh, you do realize Techmarines can hack those drones? Especially considering you can buy basic software off the shelf at Best Buy and be able to scramble the GPS of a drone and make it crash into the ground?

If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units. And okay, change drone with AC-130 as I previously mentioned. A space marine isn't going to target an gunship flying above cloud cover with a lascannon reliably.

 Ignatius wrote:
If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units.

Yeah, but I'm not sure they'd be cleared to fire on a civilian populace. They'd probably get kills if they could survive long enough (or the strikeforce didn't bring lascannons), but you'd have to worry about a lot of civilian casualties and the government leaders being knocked out. Plus if collateral is A-OK, I'd go with high altitude stealth bombers instead.

Also, wait, can military drones even function without satellites? That might seriously prevent any proper defense from being put up.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units.

Yeah, but I'm not sure they'd be cleared to fire on a civilian populace. They'd probably get kills if they could survive long enough (or the strikeforce didn't bring lascannons), but you'd have to worry about a lot of civilian casualties and the government leaders being knocked out. Plus if collateral is A-OK, I'd go with high altitude stealth bombers instead.

Also, wait, can military drones even function without satellites? That might seriously prevent any proper defense from being put up.

Even without Drones we have high-altitude recon planes such as the U2. That can find the target, then use traditional laser targeting and piloted aircraft to deliver the strike.

Also, all of the space marine planes would be incapable of flying due to laughable aerodynamics so we'll have complete air superiority

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units.

Yeah, but I'm not sure they'd be cleared to fire on a civilian populace. They'd probably get kills if they could survive long enough (or the strikeforce didn't bring lascannons), but you'd have to worry about a lot of civilian casualties and the government leaders being knocked out. Plus if collateral is A-OK, I'd go with high altitude stealth bombers instead.

Also, wait, can military drones even function without satellites? That might seriously prevent any proper defense from being put up.

Even without Drones we have high-altitude recon planes such as the U2. That can find the target, then use traditional laser targeting and piloted aircraft to deliver the strike.

Also, all of the space marine planes would be incapable of flying due to laughable aerodynamics so we'll have complete air superiority

But will drones work without any satellites for GPS coordination? Also, will you even be able to target them with a laser due to being near invisible on IR? You'd have to identify them with muzzle flash.

You can use a conventional hand held laser designator. We have lasers that are essentially a pair of binoculars that "lock onto" a target just by pointing at it and hitting a switch.

I'm not an Air Force guy button I'm still fairly confident that drones are remote operated and not used with satellites. Essentially a more sophisticated version of one of those little RC helicopters.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units.

Yeah, but I'm not sure they'd be cleared to fire on a civilian populace. They'd probably get kills if they could survive long enough (or the strikeforce didn't bring lascannons), but you'd have to worry about a lot of civilian casualties and the government leaders being knocked out. Plus if collateral is A-OK, I'd go with high altitude stealth bombers instead.

Also, wait, can military drones even function without satellites? That might seriously prevent any proper defense from being put up.

Even without Drones we have high-altitude recon planes such as the U2. That can find the target, then use traditional laser targeting and piloted aircraft to deliver the strike.

Also, all of the space marine planes would be incapable of flying due to laughable aerodynamics so we'll have complete air superiority

But will drones work without any satellites for GPS coordination? Also, will you even be able to target them with a laser due to being near invisible on IR? You'd have to identify them with muzzle flash.

A lot of them will be running around in brightly coloured armour. You won't need IR to spot them.

Also, some Laser Designators don't need the target to be visible in IR, as Ignatius said. Which makes sense because otherwise it would be really hard to mark a building or anything else the same temperature as its surroundings.
And physically Marines would have to vent heat otherwise their armour would cook them alive. The Laws of Thermodynamics mean that some of the energy from their power pack would be wasted as heat (can't have a 100% efficient system) so there would be heat build up which would have to be vented.

You realise fighting guerilla warfare would be a bad idea if say, the Raven Guard were involved. They'd kick our asses in that regard lol.
Space Marines aren't really used for invasions anymore but more of a shock troops role. Sure they help massively but if the Imperium wanted to invade they'd send a few million Militarum guys first.
Plus Space Marines could always pull the "Do it or we turn your planet into slag." card

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
If our planet was invaded by space marines, it wouldn't be beyond reasonable to imagine they would reactivate some old planes and other equipment to increase the numbers of fighting units.

Yeah, but I'm not sure they'd be cleared to fire on a civilian populace. They'd probably get kills if they could survive long enough (or the strikeforce didn't bring lascannons), but you'd have to worry about a lot of civilian casualties and the government leaders being knocked out. Plus if collateral is A-OK, I'd go with high altitude stealth bombers instead.

Also, wait, can military drones even function without satellites? That might seriously prevent any proper defense from being put up.

Even without Drones we have high-altitude recon planes such as the U2. That can find the target, then use traditional laser targeting and piloted aircraft to deliver the strike.

Also, all of the space marine planes would be incapable of flying due to laughable aerodynamics so we'll have complete air superiority

But will drones work without any satellites for GPS coordination? Also, will you even be able to target them with a laser due to being near invisible on IR? You'd have to identify them with muzzle flash.

A lot of them will be running around in brightly coloured armour. You won't need IR to spot them.

Also, some Laser Designators don't need the target to be visible in IR, as Ignatius said. Which makes sense because otherwise it would be really hard to mark a building or anything else the same temperature as its surroundings.
And physically Marines would have to vent heat otherwise their armour would cook them alive. The Laws of Thermodynamics mean that some of the energy from their power pack would be wasted as heat (can't have a 100% efficient system) so there would be heat build up which would have to be vented.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/video-specially-outfitted-tank-becomes-invisible-night-infrared-sensors

Not necessarily, released heat can be masked which is being developed for modern armor. Heat is still vented, but it's obscured and manipulated to hide it from view. And as for drones, just looked it up, UAV's do actually need satellites to function when line of sight for the main signal used to control it is lost, and IIRC they also need a working GPS to measure their altitude autonomously.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Hate it.

It takes months of planning, untold man power and logistics to invade a small country, let along control it. If hundreds of Space marines dropped out of the sky today and started quickly hunting down and killing targets, they would not last a week before we eliminated them.

Its just a dumb thing that GW adds to their already crazy and vague fluff without much thought put behind it.

Like you, I do not see it being possible. The only useful things Space marines can do is support an Imperial Guard force, or go hunting for lost artifacts.

I do hate Space Marines though so I am a little biased. But there is no way even a thousand marines could conquer a planet similar to ours in terms of population etc. let alone anything bigger.

You are aware that Marines have their own starships right?

You are aware we are talking about 1000 Marines (at maximum) right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


I do hate Space Marines though so I am a little biased.

Here is the gist of it.

If GW says a squad is enough, a squad is enough. Disliking it does not inherently make it false.

I never said false, just beyond stupid.

Not at maximum. A lot of chapters give the finger to the Codex Astartes.
The Space Wolves still operate as a legion.
And with 15 km starships that can mount weapons capable of leveling continents with a good shot, planet conquering is pretty easy.

hehe wasnt really meaning to be bashing the mericans.
I think your confidence is fething fantastic. Even if a bit skewed.
Well if you want to see over the horizon. So you can shoot your patriots, your battleships and ac's can do their jobs. You need your satellites. Only 50/50 accuracy anyway. telegrapgh wont pilot a nuke or put it in the right spot
Theres a quote from a Cpt. Imperial fist, even blind, unarmoured. i'll break your back. Think his name was Lexandro

 Wyzilla wrote:


http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/video-specially-outfitted-tank-becomes-invisible-night-infrared-sensors

Not necessarily, released heat can be masked which is being developed for modern armor. Heat is still vented, but it's obscured and manipulated to hide it from view. And as for drones, just looked it up, UAV's do actually need satellites to function when line of sight for the main signal used to control it is lost, and IIRC they also need a working GPS to measure their altitude autonomously.

That's pretty cool. Will be interesting to see it develop and what technology will be developed to counter it.

But when we consider the amount of heat that a Space Marine would have to dissipate I don't think that would be workable. A nuclear reactor produces a lot of heat. Hence why they need giant cooling towers.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/video-specially-outfitted-tank-becomes-invisible-night-infrared-sensors

Not necessarily, released heat can be masked which is being developed for modern armor. Heat is still vented, but it's obscured and manipulated to hide it from view. And as for drones, just looked it up, UAV's do actually need satellites to function when line of sight for the main signal used to control it is lost, and IIRC they also need a working GPS to measure their altitude autonomously.

That's pretty cool. Will be interesting to see it develop and what technology will be developed to counter it.

But when we consider the amount of heat that a Space Marine would have to dissipate I don't think that would be workable. A nuclear reactor produces a lot of heat. Hence why they need giant cooling towers.

-shrug- Tell that to GW. Plus they're already armored in the technobabble ceramic that is ceramite which absorbs a stupid amount of heat.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/video-specially-outfitted-tank-becomes-invisible-night-infrared-sensors

Not necessarily, released heat can be masked which is being developed for modern armor. Heat is still vented, but it's obscured and manipulated to hide it from view. And as for drones, just looked it up, UAV's do actually need satellites to function when line of sight for the main signal used to control it is lost, and IIRC they also need a working GPS to measure their altitude autonomously.

That's pretty cool. Will be interesting to see it develop and what technology will be developed to counter it.

But when we consider the amount of heat that a Space Marine would have to dissipate I don't think that would be workable. A nuclear reactor produces a lot of heat. Hence why they need giant cooling towers.

-shrug- Tell that to GW. Plus they're already armored in the technobabble ceramic that is ceramite which absorbs a stupid amount of heat.

Oh yeah, I know GW don't know the first thing about Physics when it comes to designing their universe.

Just think it's amusing to imagine drop pods landing and marines falling out cooked in their own armour after having arrived in a universe where Physics exists

Something something orbital bombardment + precision striking leaders and high value military complexes and in the issuing chaos systematically subjugate or annihilate the opposition.

Rinse and repeat. by removing a lot of our current space infrastructure basically destroys a great deal of our communication alone.

Edit: only a tiny amount of SM have to touch down at any given time.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Oh yeah, I know GW don't know the first thing about actual physics.

Just think it's amusing to imagine drop pods landing and marines falling out cooked in their own armour after having arrived in a universe where Physics exists

That is, if their drop pods even make it to the ground. Someone should tell GW that we solved the whole "shoot down a really fast target dropping from space" problem way back in the 1950s.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/video-specially-outfitted-tank-becomes-invisible-night-infrared-sensors

Not necessarily, released heat can be masked which is being developed for modern armor. Heat is still vented, but it's obscured and manipulated to hide it from view. And as for drones, just looked it up, UAV's do actually need satellites to function when line of sight for the main signal used to control it is lost, and IIRC they also need a working GPS to measure their altitude autonomously.

That's pretty cool. Will be interesting to see it develop and what technology will be developed to counter it.

But when we consider the amount of heat that a Space Marine would have to dissipate I don't think that would be workable. A nuclear reactor produces a lot of heat. Hence why they need giant cooling towers.

-shrug- Tell that to GW. Plus they're already armored in the technobabble ceramic that is ceramite which absorbs a stupid amount of heat.

Oh yeah, I know GW don't know the first thing about Physics when it comes to designing their universe.

Just think it's amusing to imagine drop pods landing and marines falling out cooked in their own armour after having arrived in a universe where Physics exists

I think 19 Megathule/joule lasguns kinda cemented the idea that GW doesn't know a goddamn thing about basic science.

Oh Emp. You are all the humans are great camp

the ancient wrote:
Oh Emp. You are all the humans are great camp

Does the imperium even have EMPS?

let alone do we? and are any of there tech effected by EMPs?

 Desubot wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Oh Emp. You are all the humans are great camp

Does the imperium even have EMPS?

let alone do we? and are any of there tech effected by EMPs?

Yes, they're called haywire grenades.

Although most modern tech is EMP hardened. EMP's aren't as nearly as dangerous as fiction or Newt thinks they are.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Oh Emp. You are all the humans are great camp

Does the imperium even have EMPS?

let alone do we? and are any of there tech effected by EMPs?

Yes, they're called haywire grenades.

Although most modern tech is EMP hardened. EMP's aren't as nearly as dangerous as fiction or Newt thinks they are.

I dont recall any part of IOM having Haywire at all (game wise)

now xenos they have plenty of haywire.

 Desubot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Oh Emp. You are all the humans are great camp

Does the imperium even have EMPS?

let alone do we? and are any of there tech effected by EMPs?

Yes, they're called haywire grenades.

Although most modern tech is EMP hardened. EMP's aren't as nearly as dangerous as fiction or Newt thinks they are.

I dont recall any part of IOM having Haywire at all (game wise)

now xenos they have plenty of haywire.

And we know that it is very effective. So the Imperiums vehicles aren't hardened against EMP.

Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.

The Space Marines just destroy the government/military. Afterwords the Ministorum sends in the Confessors to convert the population to the Imperial Cult. Once everyone is nice and subdued they install a planetary governor, local defense force, etc.

Well, actually, the Ministorum probably already had several Sabines on world planting the seeds for the Imperial Cult to take root even before the Marines even knew that the planet existed...

Hmmmm, sabines

Tarkin, your post... needs some work.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Tarkin, your post... needs some work.

Some work...what an understatement