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People talk about Earth mounting a resistance against Space Marines as if we had any idea of what we were facing.

Assuming a company of Space Marines appeared in orbit in present day, there would be massive confusion here! Life from outer space has been confirmed! It's a colossal starship and- are those huge things guns? Uh-oh...

It'd depend on if the Space Marines wanted to conquer or exterminate. I'll assume they want to conquer. First, they will prepare the entire company to strike at a few places quick, ideally the largest cities. (Remember, we know NOTHING about them yet, they are unlike anything we have ever seen.)
By now, footage of these mysterious invaders will have spread, and we nerds recognise them, our jaws dropping as actual, physical Space Marines are proved to exist. The most insane of us will try to use our 'knowledge of Space Marines' to aid the military, but said people will naturally become laughing stock- why would you and your toy soldiers have any relevance at all? Hell, even if by some implausible method you manage to convince them, you don't even know if these are the same or just similar as the Marines you know. You quite simply know nothing.

Anyway, as said, the Marines make extremely rapid strikes via Drop Pods or possibly Thunderhawks, slamming down in Earth's largest cities, crushing government centres and causing general carnage, before returning to their ship before any kind of heavy resistance can be mounted. By now, we are in shock and terror, the invading giants using tech we have never seen the like of. Speculation and confusion reigns. Our surviving leaders do what they can to assess the situation and military leaders no doubt do their best to prepare a defense against planetary invasion.Terror is widespread, reports speak of sustained assault rifle fire or even massed grenades doing little more than annoy the rampaging giants while the return fire tears tanks open. Rumours pop up rapidly. Are they invincible? Are they gods? How could we possibly stop them?

Next, all our leaders recieve a message, the Space Marine Techmarines hacking into our most secure communications channels with contemptous ease. The Space Marine Captain explains who they are and that they are here to conquer our world. He explains that no more blood will be shed if we surrender and that if we accept the God-Emperor as our master, we will be able to continue to live our lives in peace.

This will create a lot of dissonance among the extremely disunited nations of Earth. Some countries, like Sweden, will doubtlessly choose to surrender quickly. Other countries, like the more fanatical ones, will choose to resist. Those who are the fiercest in their refusal will be attacked again, the Space Marines striking at whatever population center he nation's military is unable to cover effectively, crushing the resistance in the city before continuing to move on. Eventually most nations will surrender, at which point the war is effectively over, even if a few stragglers remain.

Hmm. The Perries recently retired... they're responsible for the look of the Marines...

Oh gods, the heralds have decided their work is done, the invasion is coming, RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Hmm. That's plausible because of what you just said, the technology and the pure "i dont know a damn thing about these people." SM's win hands down. But in their own day and age it will likely be much harder.

I did rather enjoy reading that. Lol but a hive world in 40k is absurdly powerful. Modern day earth would be the same as SM's laying waste to a feral world....i mean, really

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Hmm. That's plausible because of what you just said, the technology and the pure "i dont know a damn thing about these people." SM's win hands down. But in their own day and age it will likely be much harder.

I did rather enjoy reading that. Lol but a hive world in 40k is absurdly powerful. Modern day earth would be the same as SM's laying waste to a feral world....i mean, really

It makes no major difference. There's just one million Space Marines. They are as unknown to most humans in 40K as they are to us. The psychological factor is just as powerful.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Hmm. That's plausible because of what you just said, the technology and the pure "i dont know a damn thing about these people." SM's win hands down. But in their own day and age it will likely be much harder.

I did rather enjoy reading that. Lol but a hive world in 40k is absurdly powerful. Modern day earth would be the same as SM's laying waste to a feral world....i mean, really

It makes no major difference. There's just one million Space Marines. They are as unknown to most humans in 40K as they are to us. The psychological factor is just as powerful.

Oh, I didn't think about that. Well, SM's are just big bullies.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Anyway, as said, the Marines make extremely rapid strikes via Drop Pods or possibly Thunderhawks, slamming down in Earth's largest cities, crushing government centres and causing general carnage, before returning to their ship before any kind of heavy resistance can be mounted.

What would be the point of this? Just do it the easy way and nuke those targets from orbit.

How could we possibly stop them?

Nukes.

/thread

Next, all our leaders recieve a message, the Space Marine Techmarines hacking into our most secure communications channels with contemptous ease.

I don't think you understand how hacking works. You don't just press a magic "hack system" button and wait while a progress bar fills at a speed dependent on your skill level in hacking. A techmarine trying to hack modern computers would be in about the same situation as a modern software engineer trying to "hack" ancient clay tablets. Neither of them would even know the language they're dealing with, and would have to spend vast amounts of time and effort on learning the system before they could even attempt to "hack" anything.

The Space Marine Captain explains who they are and that they are here to conquer our world. He explains that no more blood will be shed if we surrender and that if we accept the God-Emperor as our master, we will be able to continue to live our lives in peace.

Which would only work because in the real world most people are fairly pragmatic and would rather submit than become martyrs. This isn't true in 40k, where religious zealots and genocidal crusades are the default and a planet will fight to the death until every single person capable of fighting has been killed (and then set off the planet's entire arsenal of nukes to deny it to the enemy).

Our nuclear arsenal is woefully inadequate for dealing with something that has matter-destroying energy shields.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Hmm. That's plausible because of what you just said, the technology and the pure "i dont know a damn thing about these people." SM's win hands down. But in their own day and age it will likely be much harder.

I did rather enjoy reading that. Lol but a hive world in 40k is absurdly powerful. Modern day earth would be the same as SM's laying waste to a feral world....i mean, really

You dont have to kill everything in a hive world to subdue it. You just have to remove its will to fight.
Kill/capture any leadership and crush the first few uprising with very public and showy displays of firepower ensuring a massive bodycount and the hives will to fight will be massively reduced.

Ofcourse for some of the massively fortified hives this wont work and a siege would be needed. SM are not suited for this kind of warfare and they would probably just settle for crushing any supply nodes outside the main hive while leaving the IG to siege the hive itself.

You don't need to 'hack into' earth's communications. You just need to broadcast a stronger signal on all channels that drowns out the normal transmissions.

Time it during a football match for maximum viewer coverage.

Orbital strikes would quickly destroy any nuclear launch sites.
Also would you be willing to nuke your own cities to kill a few dozen attackers?
You cant nuke their base as thats in orbit and defended by shields.
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Any communication that relied on radio's or sattelites is down or jammed.

Um, not sure they would use nukes if they knew they could claim the planet with a few orbital strikes and a swift drop to the surface to slaughter everything.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mythantor wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Hmm. That's plausible because of what you just said, the technology and the pure "i dont know a damn thing about these people." SM's win hands down. But in their own day and age it will likely be much harder.

I did rather enjoy reading that. Lol but a hive world in 40k is absurdly powerful. Modern day earth would be the same as SM's laying waste to a feral world....i mean, really

You dont have to kill everything in a hive world to subdue it. You just have to remove its will to fight.
Kill/capture any leadership and crush the first few uprising with very public and showy displays of firepower ensuring a massive bodycount and the hives will to fight will be massively reduced.

Ofcourse for some of the massively fortified hives this wont work and a siege would be needed. SM are not suited for this kind of warfare and they would probably just settle for crushing any supply nodes outside the main hive while leaving the IG to siege the hive itself.

Of course, I was just being dramatic. Subduing planets is always an objective first explored by diplomacy, intimidation and military strategy. Unfortunately hive worlds can be larger than any SM chapter would find comfortable battling and they would need IG to be of severe assisstance. I always stress that but SM's will almost always need IG to complete their objectives


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
You don't need to 'hack into' earth's communications. You just need to broadcast a stronger signal on all channels that drowns out the normal transmissions.

Time it during a football match for maximum viewer coverage.

So much for my Eagles game then

 Mythantor wrote:
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Funny enough, British nuke subs require nothing except the Captain saying launch... Though he does have to check his letter from the Prime Minister first. Most often it will tell him to check with NATO command first, but he's totally free to do what he wants if that fails.

edit: They're revenge weapons, for the eventuality that the UK has been wiped out.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Funny enough, British nuke subs require nothing except the Captain saying launch... Though he does have to check his letter from the Prime Minister first. Most often it will tell him to check with NATO command first, but he's totally free to do what he wants if that fails.

Pretty sure any captain of a Nuclear equipped submarine would have the authority to launch if the command structure had completely broken down.

Along with Bomber commanders etc.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Funny enough, British nuke subs require nothing except the Captain saying launch... Though he does have to check his letter from the Prime Minister first. Most often it will tell him to check with NATO command first, but he's totally free to do what he wants if that fails.

edit: They're revenge weapons, for the eventuality that the UK has been wiped out.

Still the problem of what to nuke.

Techmarine "Captain they've launched nuclear weapons"
Captain "to the dropships evac now"

congratulations youve just nuked one of your own cities for no gain.

Plus, Space Marines have secret weapons of their own.

 Mythantor wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Funny enough, British nuke subs require nothing except the Captain saying launch... Though he does have to check his letter from the Prime Minister first. Most often it will tell him to check with NATO command first, but he's totally free to do what he wants if that fails.

edit: They're revenge weapons, for the eventuality that the UK has been wiped out.

Still the problem of what to nuke.

Techmarine "Captain they've launched nuclear weapons"
Captain "to the dropships evac now"

congratulations youve just nuked one of your own cities for no gain.

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

The US alone has around 450 active ICBMs, each one packing 3 400 kiloton warheads. So combined that would be 540 megatons. That is around 2.3 exajoules (10^18)
The US also has around 240 active SLBMs, each one with up to 8 475 kiloton warheads. So that can combine to around 912 megatons. That's around 3.8 exajoules

So that's already 6000000000000000000J of energy their shield will have to dissipate and that's before we add in Russia and China.

That is insane.

EDIT: for calculation errors.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 Mythantor wrote:
The president with his codes to launch the nukes is dead as are the joint chiefs. (killed in the initial attack)

Funny enough, British nuke subs require nothing except the Captain saying launch... Though he does have to check his letter from the Prime Minister first. Most often it will tell him to check with NATO command first, but he's totally free to do what he wants if that fails.

edit: They're revenge weapons, for the eventuality that the UK has been wiped out.

Still the problem of what to nuke.

Techmarine "Captain they've launched nuclear weapons"
Captain "to the dropships evac now"

congratulations youve just nuked one of your own cities for no gain.

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

The US alone has around 450 active ICBMs, each one packing 3 400 kiloton warheads. So combined that would be 540 megatons. That is around 2.3 terajoules.
The US also has around 240 active SLBMs, each one with up to 14 475 kiloton warheads. So that can combine to around 1,596 megatons. That's around 6.7 terajoules

So that's already 8 terajoules of energy that shield will have to dissipate and that's before we add in Russia and China.

That won't do anything. Not only are they easily capable of shooting those down with lances, weapons in 40k naval combat average around at the double to triple digit gigatons for basic firepower, going waaaaay up from there. Plus given their weapon ranges, unless they're dropping off troops they might even be right by the moon. Just, no, you aren't shooting a strike cruiser out of orbit, launching nukes at it is just a superb way to commit global suicide.

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

Because Void Shields and point-defense lasers don't give a feth about your nuclear missiles.

 Psienesis wrote:

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

Because Void Shields and point-defense lasers don't give a feth about your nuclear missiles.

They have a limit of their lasers tracking systems. We have a ton of MIRVs.

Also, if Void Shields can be brought down with Railguns then Nukes can do the same, no problem.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

Because Void Shields and point-defense lasers don't give a feth about your nuclear missiles.

They have a limit of their lasers tracking systems. We have a ton of MIRVs.

Also, if Void Shields can be brought down with Railguns then Nukes can do the same, no problem.

Except again, you're forgetting that void shields can tank a full barrage of continent busting munitions. Our nuclear supply is simply pitiful and nothing compared tot he amount of firepower Strike Cruisers and other naval frigates are designed to give out and tank.

"Every weapon in the battleship’s arsenal was prepared and oriented down at the surface; torpedo arrays filled with warshots that could atomise whole continents in a single strike, energy cannons capable of boiling off oceans, kinetic killers that could behead mountains through the brute force of their impact. This was only the power of the ship itself; then there was the minor fleet of auxiliary craft aboard it, wings of fighters and bombers that could come screaming down into Dagonet’s atmosphere on plumes of white fire. Swift death bringers that could raze cities, burn nations."
Pg.561 Nemesis

’VANDIRE’S TEETH!’ Milos Caparan cursed, triggering his starboard thrusters and jinking the two hundred tonne attack bomber out
of the path of a kilometre-wide explosive starburst which filled the view out of the cockpit’s main viewing port. All around the
lead Starhawk, the hard vacuum of space was filled with similar explosions and energy bursts. At this range - still almost one
thousand kilometres away from the target - a direct hit was almost impossible, but each energy blast emitted a burst of widespread
and high-intensity radiation lethal to both a bomber’s crew and control systems, while each exploding anti-ordnance missile
warhead or mass-reactive shell threw out a hail of shrapnel that could cover a volume of space tens of kilometres across.
Caparan activated one of the runes on his comm-link console, sending out an automated status request to the rest of his squadron.
Elsewhere, he knew, the other squadron commanders in the attack wave would be doing likewise. The cockpit’s open-channel
comm-link squawked to life as the responses came flooding back.
-Execution hour, page 16, pdf version

Yeah, y'know Vulkan Mega Bolters? Those things mounted on Titans? Those are used as point defense cannons.

Necrostar Antiversal was spitting massive hullcutter missiles at the Imperial flagship, and its primary energy batteries were cycling up to strike.

Sepiterna, an almost stationary island ten kilometres long, reached out to deny the obdurate intruder. Beam weapons, red sparks in the brown twilight of the void, found and neutralised the running missiles, igniting quick flashes of white fire.
- pg. 224

Imperial point defense is really good against missiles.

"A mighty Repulsive-class Grand Cruiser with powerful reactors and heavy armour in sloping facets of adamantine and ceramite scores of metres thick, the vessel carried a weight of armament and ordnance that could reduce a continent to ruins with a single salvo."-Black Crusade

Lots of gigatons.

"Standing off at a distance of two parsecs were the Gothic Class Battlecruisers Intolerance, Indestructability and Righteous Power. Each ship carried a payload of one hundred Hellfire class nuclear missiles. The payload of a Hellfire is one hundred and twelve sub-munitions, each one with a five giga-tonne warhead. If the vanguard failed, the vessel would be fusion bombed, down to a fine powder."

While not relevant for a strike cruiser, this is a good one for showing the kind of nukes the Imperium uses for their biggest ships.

"From the window of the chapel, through the panes of stained glass, he watched Dynikas V turning away from him, as if it were afraid to show its face. Nuclear firestorms the size of continents crossed the surface, shock-rings from multiple detonations boring down into the mantle and bedrock of the ocean world. The seas were already boiling into void as the atmosphere dissipated, the orbiting gunskulls consumed by the same fires. Within a day, perhaps less, the fifth planet would be little more than a scorched ember, and everything on it just a memory. The taint of Chaos and of the alien had been scoured clean."

Fireballs the size of continents from bombardment.

"The Aggressor Libertus, a significant ship in its own right, began firing as it turned, loosing as much as it could at the oncoming [TORMAGEDDON MONSTRUM REX]. The daemon ship's shields held firm. The Libertus's barrage, enough to strip a hive down to the mantle, spattered off the voidshields like firecrackers." - Salvation's

Barrages that strip hive cities down to the mantle of the planet.

Nightbringer said:

Few men knew the awesome power of destruction the captain of a starship possessed; the power to level cities and crack continents

And more continent cracking being mentioned. I think you get the picture.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Why attack the city when we can attack their capital ship?

Because Void Shields and point-defense lasers don't give a feth about your nuclear missiles.

They have a limit of their lasers tracking systems. We have a ton of MIRVs.

Also, if Void Shields can be brought down with Railguns then Nukes can do the same, no problem.

That's not a knock against the shields. That simply means the railguns are that powerful.

I don't buy into this notion that the worlds population will submit to alien attacks. I don't believe we will get up and say "okay you win, I'll believe in a god emperor now".

We can't get Muslims and Jews to even be in the same room with each other due to their religious beliefs, yet you think they'll willingly lay done their arms to a new dogma? That goes for pretty much any religion on the planet.

Before this thread I would have assumed that most people would rather die fighting than be subjugated. Perhaps that is more to do with the normal people I am around every day (people who would rather die fighting than see the country fall)

I suppose I'm in the minority though.

Yes thank you, you're going to have to bring me one hell of a nasty situation for me to want to die to avoid it. There's always hope as long as you live, but if you're dead there's nothing you can do.

I did mention that certain nations would undoubtedly resist more, but they would be targeted.

I really am not very nationalistic beyond 'Hey, Sweden is pretty cool.'

 Ignatius wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Fair enough about the M4 vs las gun. I had just been going off the auto gun=lasgun (which in itself may not be true, but game wise it is) and auto gun= modern day assault rifle (again May not be true). It's all I had to go off.

I'll still assume that an M4 can go through the eye lenses of a marines helmet or some of the softer joints in his armor though.

Also, Orks are fantastic.

You have to remember as well in 40K that autoguns are fifty caliber rifles normally. The eye lense is also reinforced, and Astartes consider the loss of an eyeball a flesh wound.

I was so afraid of them being .50 caliber. So afraid. And now that it seems my fears are realized, so stupid. The idea of some dude running around with a .50 cal shoulder fired fully automatic weapon hurts my shoulder just thinking about it.

While not exactly what was being discussed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Beowulf. Having a fully automatic .50 cal assult rifle is not impossible. Also it has been noted in game terms that SM power armor is roughly the equivalent of APC armor. In game terms back then power armored troops firing out of a hatch did not make the vehical open topped because their armor was a tough as their vehicals. Just saying.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Yes thank you, you're going to have to bring me one hell of a nasty situation for me to want to die to avoid it. There's always hope as long as you live, but if you're dead there's nothing you can do.

I did mention that certain nations would undoubtedly resist more, but they would be targeted.

I really am not very nationalistic beyond 'Hey, Sweden is pretty cool.'

And that's fair. I suppose I was more ignorant and making assumptions about people I shouldn't make

Still doesn't change my view that the marines couldn't defeat us. Just pointing out I wouldn't be around to find out who wins anyways

slade the sniper wrote:
they must be packing about 2,000 to 3,000 rounds a piece, never use suppressive fire, get one shot kills with every shot while on the move at 10's of Km/h, incredibly accurate real time intel down to individual enemies while still having absolute complete control of the tactical, operational and strategic (or global, I suppose) enemy order of battle, never eat, never sleep, have immunity to indirect fire, mines, ambushes, and be able to have global maneuverability in mere minutes/an hour at max, never have jammed commo...
-STS

Thats exactly what space marines can, are, and will do, all the time.

A thousand Marines can definitely enforce enough violence and damage to crush the big stuff on a planet like earth, globally, all governments, all potent threats (to a space marine, and current day earth don't have many). A thousand marines can crush the only major threating opposition across the entire globe of earth, with minimal casualties. The guard come in after and mop all the dirt. A planet like present day earth would only require one chapter and some guard backup.

Remember, machine, computer and human willpower/soul lifeforce have become one, and have been indoctrinated for a lot longer than our piss poor society has been alive into the greatest killers in the sequestered nuthouse this galaxy is.

 Ignatius wrote:
I don't buy into this notion that the worlds population will submit to alien attacks. I don't believe we will get up and say "okay you win, I'll believe in a god emperor now".

We can't get Muslims and Jews to even be in the same room with each other due to their religious beliefs, yet you think they'll willingly lay done their arms to a new dogma? That goes for pretty much any religion on the planet.

Before this thread I would have assumed that most people would rather die fighting than be subjugated. Perhaps that is more to do with the normal people I am around every day (people who would rather die fighting than see the country fall)

I suppose I'm in the minority though.

I have a feeling people might be suddenly inclined to happily lay down and surrender if a Strike Cruiser, say, slags the capital with either one or two shots.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
I don't buy into this notion that the worlds population will submit to alien attacks. I don't believe we will get up and say "okay you win, I'll believe in a god emperor now".

We can't get Muslims and Jews to even be in the same room with each other due to their religious beliefs, yet you think they'll willingly lay done their arms to a new dogma? That goes for pretty much any religion on the planet.

Before this thread I would have assumed that most people would rather die fighting than be subjugated. Perhaps that is more to do with the normal people I am around every day (people who would rather die fighting than see the country fall)

I suppose I'm in the minority though.

I have a feeling people might be suddenly inclined to happily lay down and surrender if a Strike Cruiser, say, slags the capital with either one or two shots.

Yeah, the glorious sacrifice for the nation is a bit less glorious if you're orbital bombardmented.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
I don't buy into this notion that the worlds population will submit to alien attacks. I don't believe we will get up and say "okay you win, I'll believe in a god emperor now".

We can't get Muslims and Jews to even be in the same room with each other due to their religious beliefs, yet you think they'll willingly lay done their arms to a new dogma? That goes for pretty much any religion on the planet.

Before this thread I would have assumed that most people would rather die fighting than be subjugated. Perhaps that is more to do with the normal people I am around every day (people who would rather die fighting than see the country fall)

I suppose I'm in the minority though.

I have a feeling people might be suddenly inclined to happily lay down and surrender if a Strike Cruiser, say, slags the capital with either one or two shots.

Yeah, the glorious sacrifice for the nation is a bit less glorious if you're orbital bombardmented.

I see you made a new word there.

 Ignatius wrote:
I am beyond confident that the. United States military would be completely capable of the destruction of an entire Space Marines chapter.

The collective psyche and technologically advanced weapons of a chapter of space marines (which they themselves are weapons, where earth soldiers are but men - prone to weakness) would crush the USA and all others.

 DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
I am beyond confident that the. United States military would be completely capable of the destruction of an entire Space Marines chapter.

The collective psyche and technologically advanced weapons of a chapter of space marines (which they themselves are weapons, where earth soldiers are but men - prone to weakness) would crush the USA and all others.

To clarify: HuNtEr did not specifically target the US with this post.

Pointing this out just in case.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
I don't buy into this notion that the worlds population will submit to alien attacks. I don't believe we will get up and say "okay you win, I'll believe in a god emperor now".

We can't get Muslims and Jews to even be in the same room with each other due to their religious beliefs, yet you think they'll willingly lay done their arms to a new dogma? That goes for pretty much any religion on the planet.

Before this thread I would have assumed that most people would rather die fighting than be subjugated. Perhaps that is more to do with the normal people I am around every day (people who would rather die fighting than see the country fall)

I suppose I'm in the minority though.

I have a feeling people might be suddenly inclined to happily lay down and surrender if a Strike Cruiser, say, slags the capital with either one or two shots.

Yeah, the glorious sacrifice for the nation is a bit less glorious if you're orbital bombardmented.

I see you made a new word there.

Intended!