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So,

Say I want to drop a lot of surviveable firepower into enemy lines to kill of something with high toughness/high AV - generally speaking who would be more dangerous to drop in; Legion of the Damned or Terminators?

LoTD have 3+/3++ basic, ignore cover, fearless, re-roll deepstrike etc etc but are more expensive OR Teminators which has 2+/5++ A wider array of armourment and can be upgraded to be CC specialists potentially with a 3++ (but these can't do anything for a turn).

I'm seriously stuck for what to choose as I can see the benefits of both.

Easily LoTD but they both have roles and really, they won't survive as long as a lot of things.

If we're talking about fire power for High AV/Toughness, then the LoTD win hands down. The termies drop and have what, an assault cannon or CML? And a bunch of storm bolters? That's not going to scratch the paint on high AV and will put maybe a wound or two on high toughness if you get lucky with rends.

Your LoTD can bring 3 melta weapons with the combi-melta, and fire them all the turn they deep strike. They also ignore cover, so you can give a huge middle finger to any wave serpent with its shield down. And since they're dropping on turn two or three the wave serpent most likely will have used its shield already. AND they cost less than the terminators even when kitted out with meltas. But they're basically a suicide squad even with the 3++.

In terms of one turn damage potential, the LoTD are worth looking at. The Terminators are more useful on subsequent turns with their power fists or thunder hammers.

I’d suggest podding sternguard, but that’s not one of your options…

What are you worried about, in terms of incoming fire? LoTD will deal better against AP2 fire, but are more susceptible to massed bolters and the like.

What do you want to kill? LoTD can pack much better guns, and more of them. Ignore Cover is a major perk. The terminators are only going to get one heavy in a 5 man squad, and a single AsC or CML is not going to make for a DS assassination squad. In the terminator’s favor, the next round they can charge in and work things over with their powerfists, where the LoTD is stuck with shooting. LoTD is going to land harder, but not present a long term disruption threat. The terminators might not hit as hard when they port in, but the potential to charge in and crush things on subsequent turns makes them a much more irritating thorn in the backfield.

If you are taking them for a high risk, assassination drop, go with the LoTD. They should work much better at killing the one thing that needs to die on the turn they arrive. If you are looking for a more flexible harassment unit, go with the vets.

The only issue with DP sterns is AV which has managed to shrug off or be too numerous for the combi meltas to handle.

Played a car park unbound IG army, and after one round of shooting, run out of things to kill and was unable to take the tanks.

LotD is going to be popping one target a turn, probably. You get to click off the combi on one turn, but after that are down to two shots. Which should kill something, but the dice gods are fickle.

Temis can land and shoot AsC or CMLs into rear armor the first turn. After the first turn, they can try to multi assault tanks and power/chainfist 2 a turn if they are in a target rich environment (aka parking lots) Against most things, you should get a good number of hits in. AV10 rear armor targets are going to crumple, and harder things should still die, assuming you took a chainfist or two.

Well a 5man LotD unit with Melta, combi, MM should be able to reliably blow up a vehicles and go straight through skimmer jinks.

But 5 T4 models with a 3+ save isnt going to survive the retaliation so they should probably have some sort of support.

For on-the-drop damage, especially if you have other units dropping at the same time, LOTD with meltas. For more long-term damage and overall better survivability, probably TH/SS termies, but they're far more niche in their role.

 Paradigm wrote:
For on-the-drop damage, especially if you have other units dropping at the same time, LOTD with meltas. For more long-term damage and overall better survivability, probably TH/SS termies, but they're far more niche in their role.

I’d argue that tactical terminators are going to be better in this role, barring being dropped into a vat of plasma/ other AP2. Thunder hammers don’t do anything relevant over a powerfist, and the ability to take chainfists and do some shooting on drop I think outweighs the vulnerability.

Part of this is my aversion to DSing assault troops in general. I want to be able to do something besides run and die on the turn I drop.

YMMV

Terminators also have the option to start on the table, which can be useful. Some games, you don’t want to deep strike.

I see what you're saying, I was more advocating the TH/SS as a way of upping survivability against the inevitable AP2 coming their way.

I agree that Termies are better when not being hit by AP2, but if you DS them early on, the chances are they'll be one of the few targets in range of short-range AP2 weapons and therefore get prioritised, making LOTD more useful overall.

Tac Termies are good, but LOTD beat them for damage on the drop due to melta availability and not really needing to stick around long after, whereas termies need to survive shooting and get into CC to be worth it in most cases. They also tend to need other units to work in tandem with, LOTD can go solo fairly well.

Some good ideas on both sides.

I suppose it depends on the confidence that the units and its support will do enough damage to kill off any ap2/weighted fire the turn in arrives.

If the gamble pays off, LOTD. If not Tac Termis. And if you're sure you can only do the job by smashing it in CC - Assault Termis.

Terminators are garbage. They deep strike, scatter, do nothing with 1 heawy weapon, than will be dead or with no charge targets.

If you don't use sternguard, than LotD.

elotar wrote:
Terminators are garbage. They deep strike, scatter, do nothing with 1 heawy weapon, than will be dead or with no charge targets.

If you don't use sternguard, than LotD.

I don't agree with this entirely. In the role of DSing behind the enemy and doing on-the-drop damage, LOTD beat Termies (and Sternguard beat both) but Termes can work. The thing is, they needs significant investment in support, be it other terminator squads, Land Raiders to deliver them or Ironclads Dreads to draw some of the stronger firepower. DSing solo in all but the smallest games will get Terminators of either kind killed, but they're far from 'garbage'.

In my mind it's down to the re rolling scatter. If you want to land in an open space near the enemy then terminators. If you want to tactically land behind something or close to the enemy then Lotd (they even have smaller bases).

The answer is neither unless your whole army plans to be there. Dropping a single squad into enemy lines has never been a good idea, nor will it ever be I reckon, not unless the game changes in some way that the squad is not going to subsequently obliterated in the enemy turn. There's no point in making such trade-offs in 40k unless you can guarantee the squad kills something worth way more than themselves.

Why not drop a Company Command Squad in a Drop Pod with 5x Gravguns and Stormshields. Add Techmarine or a two for extra punch and Librarian with Betrayers Bane to give some meltapower and rerolls.

FinnSeer wrote:
Why not drop a Company Command Squad in a Drop Pod with 5x Gravguns and Stormshields. Add Techmarine or a two for extra punch and Librarian with Betrayers Bane to give some meltapower and rerolls.

And that's almost 600pts tied up in 6 MEQs and 2 TEQs that you are giving to your opponent. The answer for a suicide unit is never to make it cost more.