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 endtransmission wrote:


The Zombicide artist boxes contain 4 figures, not 6 btw. The Moustache packs are 6 figures for $25 though

Whoops! My bad. Got mixed up with the two there!

So what y'all are saying is that for a similar type of game expansion to provide good value, there would need to be some combination of:

Higher quality miniatures
Better game content
Lower price

I guess an example might be:

FFG X-Wing ship expansions (large base ships $30; small base ships $15; better miniatures; pre-painted; more game content)

What kind of game content do you think would add additional value?

The FFG ship expansions typically include several ways to use the model in the game as well as new abilities/upgrades that can be applied to other products. And of course every ship comes with an assortment of necessary game components.

Do you think those components add value to the product, even if they are necessary to use the product in the game? In other words, does the fact that the game itself requires lots of components aside from the miniature inherently add value to the product?

The value is also contrasted against what you are getting for "free" from stretch goals. Paying $25 for 2 alternate versions of characters you already have when you are getting so many miniatures included in the base or king price has to really wow me to tempt me to pick them up. I think the CMON kickstarter game add-ons are generally fair. A decent amount of high quality sculpts at a fair price, often exclusive too if you wanted to resell them and with the rules included, and for example Rum and Bones addon was typically like 3 exclusive sculpts for $15.

On a different note, here is an updated list of everything you get from base and king with stretch goals so far:

I think that's a good question, Weeble.

I think the FFG Single ships are an acceptable price point considering what's included in them. Solid pre-paints, usually 10ish upgrade cards, 4-6 pilot cards, and two 'mini sprues" of cardboard seem good at that price.

By comparison, one of the Descent single figure Lieutenant packs has an MSRP of $10, with a similar amount of paper product. I tend to think FFG has a pretty solid pricing structure, so I think for one fig, with other content, $10 is pretty approachable, with it scaling down as more is included (for example, a 2 model Lt pack for Descent is MSRP $14).

With that in mind, I think the CMoN pricepoint is pretty solid as well. A single survivor pack is $10 for 2 models with the character sheet, and I think that's a reasonable price. As we noted before, the 6 figure Mustache packs are $25 for 6 models and paper, and while I'd like it better at $20 because I'm cheap, $25 doesn't feel too off for the content.

Now, I know the argument is going to be made somewhere that all those prices are high, but I think if one looks at it pragmatically, with some common sense understanding of the costs associated with sculpting and tooling a plastic mini, that they're fairly appropriate.

Ideally, with the content listed, I'd be much more comfortable with the Conan expansions at $15. $25 just seems way too high for what you're getting.

weeble1000 wrote:

Do you think those components add value to the product, even if they are necessary to use the product in the game? In other words, does the fact that the game itself requires lots of components aside from the miniature inherently add value to the product?

Well, it adds to the substance of the product, which in turn makes the price tag easier to swallow. Just like I accept a miniature from a miniature game will likely cost more than a Reaper figure, because the cost of developing the additional rules/playtesting has to be paid somehow and it probably includes a stat card, which requires artwork, printing, etc. Tokens and stuff don't magically appear from thin air either.

Uno only requires a card deck to play. Should I ignore the fact that zombicide requires cards, dice, tokens, etc when trying to figure out why it costs more to buy Zombicide than Uno?

All that said, $25 for this add on seems a tiny bit pricey, but hey, boobs sell. At most its overcosted by $5 compared to similar game expansions, which seem to run around $10 for a new character option (Zombicide was $20 for 2 during the campaign, Star Wars Imperial Assault is $10 for solos,
Su[per Dungeon Explore is $13, Arcadia Quest $13, etc).

They could take a page from Soda Pop and add more content to the $25 later on down the line. Turn it into more of a mini expansion perhaps?

Soda Pop started tossing in extra figures with certain add ons without changing the original prices. Off the top of my head, the extra tile sets got bonus creep figures, as did the Totoro style boss monster who ended up getting a minion bundle included with him.

Maybe if they toss in a bonus ally, or some 3d goodies...? I don't know what would work. I just don't feel those two are worth it yet.

If they toss any freebies in I want more tables and benches . For some reason I just want to fill a large room with tables and chairs, the heroes possibly a few of the big bad monsters, scream "food fight" and have them just fight each other till they drop. Bar room brawl done Conan style.

I too believe the $25 price tag is overdone for unpainted/unaccompanied models. If they came with rules for an adventure exclusive to them (till someone posts it on the net) then I might feel different about it.

$25 is for the brand name: BROM. Although, apparently, his name isn't worth $25 anymore (and he's not the sculptor, anyway). I have his Buttonmen art. Nice art, actually.

Here's the clarification on the sculpt:

Jamie@Monolith.

Ok guys, well, I've made it to Belfast despite the winds making it quite a challenge for the pilot to land the plane!
I just wanted to address a few points whilst I have the signal. Sorry I can't respond to individual questions at the moment but it's pretty hard on a phone!

First of all: the "free" on the add-on is indeed a typo. The sabre-toothed tiger was meant to be a SG and we were going to release another add-on beastie tonight however there's been a bit of a delay with the sculpt and we'd rather show you finished stuff where we can so we swapped them round. So to reiterate: the saber-toothed tiger is indeed an optional purchase, not free

Secondly, concerning the scenarios. I really do apologise personally for this one as it's due to a misunderstanding between myself and the design team: there will not be one additional scenario PER add-on model as I said earlier. Instead, all the models will be usable in at least one or two scenarios, spread across the different boards that we've unlocked and have yet to unlock. Now Fred wants to reassure you that there will be plenty of scenarios, enough to keep you busy for quite some time but not to the point of one per SG. Once again, my apologies for this misunderstanding.

Finally: some of you have highlighted the fact that the barbarian pledge is quickly outstripping the king pledge in terms of "value". Now if this sort of thing is your bag and the exclusive models aren't that big of a deal to you then I am here to reassure you that we foresaw this issue and we've got you covered. So a word to the wise, don't get rid of your king pledge just yet

EDIT: MUMMIES UNLOCKED!

The pose of how the axe is held bothers be a great deal. It isn't possible to swing a weapon with the knuckles turned like that. If you want to swing a two-handed axe, the knuckles must point in the same direction. This particular figure is really bad in my opionion, and isn't expected knowing that some of the top sculptors have been working with this project.

The concept art, on the other hand, looks great.

Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.

So King pledges may get even more stuff on top of what the bonuses they already get?

I have no problem whatsoever with that!

EDIT- an King backers now get a pile of 6 extra dice... BECAUSE!



However, what I think is missing from making this game complete are some barrels. We need barrels. A fantasy game can never have enough barrels. Barrels of all shapes and sizes. Barrels for ale, barrels for fish, barrels for barrels... I remember an old PSX game where there was a character obsessed with barrels. I think it was Star Ocean 2, and the dude who had twin dragons possess him...

I have barrels coming out of my..... areas, with more on the way from another KS.

I don't need no stinkin' barrels.

Free stuff is great, and I have an early bird King pledge so it's already a more than fair value for me. That being said extra dice don't excite me in any way, and if I was considering dropping down to the base pledge because it's a better value of dollar per miniature, more dice wouldn't change my mind in any way.

 Alex C wrote:
Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.

It is easy to fix, but still disappointing that they have that many talented sculptors and would release something like that or the zelata sculpt which I am not a fan of at all. It's also slightly worrying because lots of the core and king pledge models have only been shown at a way zoomed out "this is everything you get" view which makes it hard to see exactly what type of quality you are getting. I'd like some close ups of all the core set and king pledge models.

Karazax wrote:
Free stuff is great, and I have an early bird King pledge so it's already a more than fair value for me. That being said extra dice don't excite me in any way, and if I was considering dropping down to the base pledge because it's a better value of dollar per miniature, more dice wouldn't change my mind in any way.

 Alex C wrote:
Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.

It is easy to fix, but still disappointing that they have that many talented sculptors and would release something like that or the zelata sculpt which I am not a fan of at all. It's also slightly worrying because lots of the core and king pledge models have only been shown at a way zoomed out "this is everything you get" view which makes it hard to see exactly what type of quality you are getting. I'd like some close ups of all the core set and king pledge models.

Have no fear! Be rest assured they will all be "high quality plastic" miniatures.

This was spoiled prior to the kickstarter launch, and will be another addon I'm sure:

 Alex C wrote:
Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.

While the axe-head is easy to swap, this isn't what bothers me. It is how he holds the weapon in his hands. The knuckles are turned towards each other. Try to place your hands on top of each other (like if you hold a weapon) with your right knuckles pointing left and your left knuckles pointing right, and then try to see if it feels natural to make a swinging moition with the hands placed like that. Then try the same thing, but hold the knuckles so that they point both the same way and see if you can make a swinging motion like that. It's things like that that ruins the entire figure for me, and it's unfortunate that the sculptor haven't researched something as common as that.

But this is just one detail out of many figures, so lets not get bogged down over just one!

So Conan 3 was unlocked last night and we've got two new stretches:




There''s also another add-on villain

Either the sculpts are losing a ton of details during production or the pictures they are posting aren't doing them justice. Here are some of the original sculpts from Stephane Simon:
Conan from his blog: http://simonminiaturesculptor.blogspot.fr/2015/01/kickstarter-conanthe-miniatures-part-1.html


Pict Warrior:

Archer:

The Necromancer looks MUCH better than the kickstarter image, which makes him look like Dhalsim from Street fighter

More Pict warriors and archers:

N'Gora

PALLANTIDES AND GUARD


These sculpts are amazing and if the final miniatures look closer to them then they really need to post some better pictures than what they currently have for most of those models. I really want to see close ups and different angles for all the models released so far, as this was much closer to the quality I hoped for with the talent of the sculptors working on the game.

Good find!

This is very curious...

I'm sure there is some loss of detail

(these will have been scanned in to turn them into digital files, then the scanned imaged tidied up/fixed in order to work with their mould cutting requirements in terms of degrees of overhang and filling in gaps)

I'm sure that's why the greens are not on show on the KS page so as to not overpromise on detail (which I think is a good thing)

There was a post a while back saying that the original sculpts were over exaggerated so that when the plastics shrink slightly they won't lose all the detail.

....well the production process I have been informed of from Dust studio is that the original is either cast in or covered by a ceramic medium which is then used to create the metal tool..... I am assuming the ceramic is able to withstand the incredible heat of molten metal and the metal is poured over it before being cut into blocks. Details are bound to be lost in that process, it is just a fact of reality.

I totally agree about the sculpting done by Stephane Simon. If these were cast in resin, I would for sure pick up several of them. But the picture for the Conan game don't look that interesting, which is a great shame. So I hope they will get around to cast some in resin, too, for painters and collectors.

I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.

That is really odd. Are the molds for high quality PVC so much cheaper to make? And I the mold is still good after the kickstarter, why throw it away?

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.

If you don't like exclusives, this campaign is a real bummer.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.

If you don't like exclusives, this campaign is a real bummer.

So far it's not too bad strictly from a selfish POV, since outside of the Mummies very few of the exclusives appeal to me, so I should be able to get the ones I want at retail discount/semi-rational ebay prices later(unless the core pledge gets to the point where there are so many characters I want that all the bumf and duplicate henchmen are essentially "free" at the KS price, in which case I still may go in at the last minute). Still it's getting a bit mental, it seems most of the new character models and monsters are going to end up KS-only.

What I'm really interested in at this point is proper sized pictures of all the models available, you still can't make out half of the contents of the core pledge, which is fine if you're only interested in this as a board game but pretty iffy if you're after the models, makes me worry they're not confident enough about the results of those PVC casts to show them off.

In reality I think some of the pictures they posted of in game are closer than I realized at first.



It's just easier to pick out all the details in the original sculpt and after you do then it's easier to find them in the kickstarter image. The kickstarter image it's hard to tell what the thing on his back is, almost looks like he has a hump back and those are his shoulders extending over his head. But now that I know what I am looking at they look fairly close, just at a different angle for the picture. I really think they need to put up more close up shots of all the miniatures. The details might be much better than the kickstarter's zoomed out pictures allow us to see. I think they would get more additional pledges with quality pictures of what they already have than they will from a few more stretch goals unlocking.

Karazax wrote:
In reality I think some of the pictures they posted of in game are closer than I realized at first.



It's just easier to pick out all the details in the original sculpt and after you do then it's easier to find them in the kickstarter image. The kickstarter image it's hard to tell what the thing on his back is, almost looks like he has a hump back and those are his shoulders extending over his head. But now that I know what I am looking at they look fairly close, just at a different angle for the picture. I really think they need to put up more close up shots of all the miniatures. The details might be much better than the kickstarter's zoomed out pictures allow us to see. I think they would get more additional pledges with quality pictures of what they already have than they will from a few more stretch goals unlocking.

One question I have is: what is that a picture of anyway? Is that a production model? Is it a proof? Is it a render?

After browsing the kickstarter page I found that the exclusive models will be available at conventions and events.