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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 20:12:39
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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This is the case that some states force people into public-employee unions even though they are not directly employed by government, but privately employed and paid in part through public aid. The decision offers a window into a path for broader rollbacks of forced participation in PEU funding:
Here's a quick AP:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/court-public-union-make-nonmembers-pay-fees-24363892
The Supreme Court dealt a blow to public sector unions Monday, ruling that thousands of home health care workers in Illinois cannot be required to pay fees that help cover a union's costs of collective bargaining.
In a 5-4 split along ideological lines, the justices said the practice violates the First Amendment rights of nonmembers who disagree with the positions that unions take.
The ruling is a setback for labor unions that have bolstered their ranks and their bank accounts in Illinois and other states by signing up hundreds of thousands of in-home care workers. It could lead to an exodus of members who will have little incentive to pay dues if nonmembers don't have to share the burden of union costs.
But the narrow ruling was limited to "partial-public employees" and stopped short of overturning decades of practice that has generally allowed public sector unions of teachers, firefighters and other government workers to pass through their representation costs to nonmembers.
Writing for the court, Justice Samuel Alito said home care workers "are different from full-fledged public employees" because they work primarily for their disabled or elderly customers and do not have most of the rights and benefits of state employees. The ruling does not affect private sector workers.
The case involves about 26,000 Illinois workers who provide home care for disabled people and are paid with Medicaid funds administered by the state. In 2003, the state passed a measure deeming the workers state employees eligible for collective bargaining.
A majority of the workers then selected the Service Employees International Union to negotiate with the state to increase wages, improve health benefits and set up training programs. Those workers who chose not to join the union had to pay proportional "fair share" fees to cover collective bargaining and other administration costs.
A group of workers led by Pamela Harris — a home health aide who cares for her disabled son at home — filed a lawsuit arguing the fees violate the First Amendment. Backed by the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, the workers said it wasn't fair to make someone pay fees to a group that takes positions the fee-payer disagrees with.
The workers argue they are not different from typical government employees because they work in people's homes, not on government property, and are not supervised by other state employees. And they say the union is not merely seeking higher wages, but making a political push for expansion of Medicaid payments.
Alito agreed, saying "it is impossible to argue that the level of Medicaid funding (or, for that matter, state spending for employee benefits in general) is not a matter of great public concern."
The workers had urged the justices to go even farther and overturn a 1977 Supreme Court decision which held that public employees who choose not to join a union can still be required to pay representation fees, as long as those fees don't go toward political purposes.
Alito said the court was not overturning that case, Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, which is confined "to full-fledged state employees." But he said that extending Abood to include "partial-public employees, quasi-public employees, or simply private employees would invite problems."
About half of the states require these fair-share fees.
Justice Elena Kagan wrote the dissent for the four liberal justices. Kagan said the majority's decision to leave the older case in place is "cause for satisfaction, though hardly applause."
Kagan agreed with the state's arguments that home care workers should be treated the same as other public workers because Illinois sets their salaries, resolves disputes over pay, conducts performance reviews and enforces the terms of employment contracts.
"Our decisions have long afforded government entities broad latitude to manage their workforces, even when that affects speech they could not regulate in other contexts," Kagan said.
Harris issued a statement through the National Right to Work Foundation praising the decision.
"Families in Illinois can relax knowing their homes are safe from being a union workplace and there will be no third party intruding into the care we provide our disabled sons and daughters," Harris said.
A federal district court and the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals had rejected her lawsuit, citing the high court's precedent.
The Supreme Court's limited ruling means public unions avoided a potentially devastating blow that could have meant a major drop in public employee membership ranks.
Mary Kay Henry, president of the SEIU, said her union would work with Illinois officials to create a new model for "working together to create good jobs and improve the quality of care that we deliver to seniors and the disabled."
Henry said it was not clear how the decision would affect home care union models in other states, where the union represents 400,000 caregivers.
White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the ruling would make it harder for home care workers "to get a fair shake in exchange for their hard work" and make it tougher for states and cities "to ensure the elderly and Americans with disabilities get the care they need and deserve."
At least nine other states have allowed home care workers to join unions: California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Oregon, Vermont and Washington.
The fate of Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, which allows for forced collection of agency fees, looks potentially gloomy, depending on whether it gets challenged on its own. Justice Alito, writing for the majority in this Harris case, seems to light up the bat-signal to get this overturned.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 20:20:41
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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An anti-union ruling from the SC! SHOCK!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:04:17
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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I wonder if writers just keep "In a 5-4 split along ideological lines..." ready to copy/paste or just write it out each time.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:16:43
Subject: Re:The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Nervous Accuser
South Carolina
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HA! SUCK IT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:45:15
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Ahtman wrote:I wonder if writers just keep "In a 5-4 split along ideological lines..." ready to copy/paste or just write it out each time.
I'm curious why they just don't say "typical vote split" instead. I mean, is there ever a 5-4 vote that isn't along ideological lines?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:51:16
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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LordofHats wrote: Ahtman wrote:I wonder if writers just keep "In a 5-4 split along ideological lines..." ready to copy/paste or just write it out each time.
I'm curious why they just don't say "typical vote split" instead. I mean, is there ever a 5-4 vote that isn't along ideological lines?
Well... Justices can put forth different opinions for different reasons.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:55:49
Subject: Re:The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 06:12:58
Subject: Re:The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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I think it's the right ruling. There's an issue with asking people to pay for something they will otherwise get*, but the answer isn't to require someone to be part of a union just to work in an industry.
*Unions will use the funds provided by union members to negotiate on their behalf, and then that pay and conditions will flow on to all other employees.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 06:44:44
Subject: Re:The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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From what I understand of the situation of the mother taking care of her special needs son. She was receiving state funds to take care of him. Think it was $1200. State passed some law that if funds were being paid to take care of an individual then they are considered State Employee's
Edit
Dang. Z Monster infleunce my post
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 06:46:31
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 14:08:14
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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I'm a bit bummed they made this ruling so narrow, for only health-care workers, but it's a start.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 14:15:25
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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djones520 wrote:I'm a bit bummed they made this ruling so narrow, for only health-care workers, but it's a start.
That "target" is really the Abood case.
Alito is basically shouting here for someone to bring a case to the SC to see if the court would overturn Abood. Which would end mandatory dues in Public Sector Unions.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 14:18:49
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Am I the only one who saw the title and thought: Harley Quinn is in the Supreme Court?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 14:21:16
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Frazzled wrote:Am I the only one who saw the title and thought: Harley Quinn is in the Supreme Court?
No... she'd be better than some of the Justices... just saying!
EDIT: d'oh! spoilered the image.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 14:21:43
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 14:50:04
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ahtman wrote:I wonder if writers just keep "In a 5-4 split along ideological lines..." ready to copy/paste or just write it out each time.
Yeah, I've been noticing that trend in reporting too Automatically Appended Next Post: sebster wrote:I think it's the right ruling. There's an issue with asking people to pay for something they will otherwise get*, but the answer isn't to require someone to be part of a union just to work in an industry.
*Unions will use the funds provided by union members to negotiate on their behalf, and then that pay and conditions will flow on to all other employees.
I agree
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 14:52:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 15:24:59
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Regardless of employment/job/whatever....people should not be forced into unions, or to pay union dues...nor should anybody be required to join a union to get a specific job.
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I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 16:45:14
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: Ahtman wrote:I wonder if writers just keep "In a 5-4 split along ideological lines..." ready to copy/paste or just write it out each time.
Yeah, I've been noticing that trend in reporting too
Probably because it's election season and "ideological lines" is just code for "along party lines".
We know that the justices are supposed to be neutral when it comes to party affiliation, but with these two cases he "appointed by a democrat" justices voted one way and he "appointed by republican" justices voted another. So by talking about the "ideological divide" they are pushing towards the importance of the midterms and how a change in the senate could affect the makeup of the bench with only two years remaining for Obama to make his mark there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 17:47:36
Subject: Re:The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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sebster wrote:I think it's the right ruling. There's an issue with asking people to pay for something they will otherwise get*, but the answer isn't to require someone to be part of a union just to work in an industry.
*Unions will use the funds provided by union members to negotiate on their behalf, and then that pay and conditions will flow on to all other employees.
Sure, but if you are using the rationl actor model who would ever pay for something that they are already getting for free. If no one then pays, can the Union still successfully collectively bargain or fight against management interests, especially in the political arena?
It seems like this is just a naked attempt to set the stage for good ol' American Union Busting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheMeanDM wrote:Regardless of employment/job/whatever....people should not be forced into unions, or to pay union dues...nor should anybody be required to join a union to get a specific job.
In order to eat/drink/find shelter/ whatever.... people shouldn't be forced to join a company, or to work in exchange for wages..... nor should anybody be required to be part of a business to get a specific job.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/02 15:30:53
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 15:12:29
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Ehhh, Unions have outlived their stay I think. They used to be to protect workers from over use from employers, but we have laws about that now. An with things like OSHA and other suchs orginizations. Now unions seem to barter only for more and more. Whenever I see the local Subway drivers picket or go on strike it is only for reasons like "We want better dental and more days off" or something like that. I mean, Unions are horrible in hollywood, to the point if you try to do a job of someone who is unioned, you get fire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 15:26:31
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You would be surprised just how few of your benefits are actually any kind of law...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 15:30:24
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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I wonder if people who wna tto get rid of Unions also feel we need to get rid of the Supreme Court?
Removing the Unions removes one of the key checks and balances of competing interests between Government, Corporations, and Labor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/02 15:39:28
Subject: The other big Supreme Court ruling: Harris v Quinn
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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d-usa wrote:You would be surprised just how few of your benefits are actually any kind of law...
Fair point. But like I said, The Subay drivers here make on average 75,000$ or more. But 3 months doesnt go by without them threatening a strike. And its always "We want more benifits" kinda stuff. And they give in without a pause because the entire county depends on those trains.
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