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I wanted to give up warhammer about a year ago, but a friend kept me with the game. He didn't want to give up warhammer because he lived really close to a GW store and wouldn't have to travel as far as he would to go to any of the indy shops and play another game.

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Best thing that could of happened to me, because now I have a realy good reason for never going back to that store agien. I've officially quite Warhammer, I just bough a Foot Locker and finished packing all my warhammer stuff into it yesterday. I also picked up some infinity stuff, and going to be picking up Dystopian wars navel.

1st time in a long time I've been excited about wargameing agien. I just haven't had any fun with warhammer since 6th ed came out. Fantsey is cool, but to expensive to start a army.

 Gallahad wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
In the last week or so, I have pretty much decided to avoid everything GW, also for my son. The background material just gets darker and uglier, with even the ostensible good guys committing genocide, and the bad guys bleeding over into torture porn. I have no desire to expose a child to any of that.

A bit off topic, but I think there is real value to settings and stories with actual heroes. I know the current trend in fiction is towards "realistic" characters and anti-heroes, but the pendulum has swung too far (looking at you George R. Martin). I happen to know lots of very decent people in the real world, some of whom are honest to goodness heroes. Not everybody in the world is some sort of sadist, tyrant, bigot or pervert, and I'm not really interested in stories or settings wholly populated by such people. It just isn't realistic.

I've thought about this before, and I'm generally with you two. LotR gets a lot of stick for many things, including the unrelateable, goody-goody nature of most of it's heroes. Perhaps rightly so (though I'd suggest actually paying attention would pay dividends), but personally, I can relate to good heroes more easily than I can relate to thieves, self-serving 'reavers' and 'slayers', or master-race demon-sword junkies; as well written as those characters and stories may be. Along with ASoIaF/GoT and the Warhammer settings, it's all interesting to delve into from time to time, but gets pretty wearying when too many popular franchises insist on the darker shades of grey.

Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

 Vermis wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
In the last week or so, I have pretty much decided to avoid everything GW, also for my son. The background material just gets darker and uglier, with even the ostensible good guys committing genocide, and the bad guys bleeding over into torture porn. I have no desire to expose a child to any of that.

A bit off topic, but I think there is real value to settings and stories with actual heroes. I know the current trend in fiction is towards "realistic" characters and anti-heroes, but the pendulum has swung too far (looking at you George R. Martin). I happen to know lots of very decent people in the real world, some of whom are honest to goodness heroes. Not everybody in the world is some sort of sadist, tyrant, bigot or pervert, and I'm not really interested in stories or settings wholly populated by such people. It just isn't realistic.

I've thought about this before, and I'm generally with you two. LotR gets a lot of stick for many things, including the unrelateable, goody-goody nature of most of it's heroes. Perhaps rightly so (though I'd suggest actually paying attention would pay dividends), but personally, I can relate to good heroes more easily than I can relate to thieves, self-serving 'reavers' and 'slayers', or master-race demon-sword junkies; as well written as those characters and stories may be. Along with ASoIaF/GoT and the Warhammer settings, it's all interesting to delve into from time to time, but gets pretty wearying when too many popular franchises insist on the darker shades of grey.

Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

There's a reason people like IG armies, and why they are the focus of so many stories. They feel human. Everything else feels flat.

 Lockark wrote:

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Now I am curious. What did he/she do and for them to panic to kick you out.

I like the moral ambiguity that Infinity has. It doesn't have the Mary Sue White Knights but it doesn't have the mustache twirling throne of dead babies villains.

Davor wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Now I am curious. What did he/she do and for them to panic to kick you out.

I too need to know this. For, uh, reasons...

 jonolikespie wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Now I am curious. What did he/she do and for them to panic to kick you out.

I too need to know this. For, uh, reasons...

More importantly what is a Dystopian wars navel!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Now I am curious. What did he/she do and for them to panic to kick you out.

I too need to know this. For, uh, reasons...

More importantly what is a Dystopian wars navel!

If you've never played Dyst wars across several strippers stomachs you're really missing out.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

"Luckily" a GW employee did something REALY bone headed to me. I looked him in the eye and asked him what the hell was wroung with him. The employee panicked and kicked me out of the store for the day.

Now I am curious. What did he/she do and for them to panic to kick you out.

I too need to know this. For, uh, reasons...

More importantly what is a Dystopian wars navel!

If you've never played Dyst wars across several strippers stomachs you're really missing out.

That's how it was meant to be played. Why do you think it's outsold 7th edition 40k?

I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Because of all the mess happening with modern 40K, I personally have left GW......for an older GW!

I still play games of 40K, but back in the rules of 3rd and 4th edition, where I have nearly the entire library of material to pull from, and if there's something i don;t have, I get it off of Amazon super-cheap. Do I want to play Oldcrons? Space Wolves 13th Company? Kroot Mercs? Vehicle Design Rules?

I have always considered that while 2nd Edition 40K is by far my favorite, for both playability and nostalgia combined, the days of late 3rd/early 4th edition were by far the healthiest era of 40K Games Workshop has enjoyed so far. I personally think they are simply riding the inertia of the success of those years right now.

I also find great enjoyment playing their old Specialist Games. Necromunda, Epic: Armageddon, Battlefleet Gothic, and even Gorkamorka!

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Might be worth trying a few other games to see how you feel about them. Any deadzone, infinity, bushido, malifaux etc gamers in your area? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying war machine much,

I have found a local club near me and I am going to try to get people to play some games a little off the beaten path, mostly because I want to play them myself. So I am going to paint up two forces for ronin and a fist full of Kung fu and see if I can persuade someone to learn it with me.

 carlos13th wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Might be worth trying a few other games to see how you feel about them. Any deadzone, infinity, bushido, malifaux etc gamers in your area? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying war machine much,

I have found a local club near me and I am going to try to get people to play some games a little off the beaten path, mostly because I want to play them myself. So I am going to paint up two forces for ronin and a fist full of Kung fu and see if I can persuade someone to learn it with me.

Try getting into the fluff more. Make the battles meaningful.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Warmachine won't scratch your 40K itch. This is something I really wish I had figured out before dumping a tonne of money into Warmachine, as it turns out it really wasn't for me. I singled out this post because it's exactly how I used to feel during the transition from 40K. If what you're after is a replacement to 40K, Warmachine is absolutely not the answer. Historical games ended up being what I needed, you just gotta look at what's out there and decide what suits your personal tastes.

That is actually an interesting point. What is the unique thing you get from 40K (or Fantasy) that you can't get from any alternative game. Other than it being 40K/Fantasy, of course.

Or perhaps you don't get it any more.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Warmachine won't scratch your 40K itch. This is something I really wish I had figured out before dumping a tonne of money into Warmachine, as it turns out it really wasn't for me. I singled out this post because it's exactly how I used to feel during the transition from 40K. If what you're after is a replacement to 40K, Warmachine is absolutely not the answer. Historical games ended up being what I needed, you just gotta look at what's out there and decide what suits your personal tastes.

Honestly it's kind of a weird thing. I like the idea of Warmachine: a game where almost everything is viable and tactics work, as well as one with streamlined rules. Just... when I play, it doesn't feel that way to me, it feels frustrating for some reason. I really can't explain it. It feels overly complex (not with rules bloat, but with interactions between rules. Almost every game I forget something crucial because there's just so many things to remember) and ultimately I get this weird feeling when I'm playing it. I really can't explain it more than that. I never got that kind of feeling with 40k (although granted that was 12 years ago). I imagine that must be how MtG players feel during those games, analyzing every move and thinking two steps ahead, etc. It made, and makes, me feel uncomfortable when playing.

There's also the issue of there not being much beyond Warmachine and 40k in my area. There is some Bolt Action but it happens on a day when I can't make it to the store, and while I tried a few demo games of that it didn't feel right to me either. Nobody plays historical games, or Infinity, or Deadzone or Malifaux or whatever. I really think my issue with 40k is due to GW, and nothing else. But I'm not sure.

I sold two of my three remaining Warhammer Fantasy armies just reccently and only kept my Orks and Golbins (first army 15 years ago and I just cannot get rid of them :().
I pledged 200$ in raging heroes miniatures planing to make a Space Marine army out of them.. that won't happen. The moment I recceive the minis, I'll put them out for sale.

I just can't get my head around 95% of GWs decisions... rules still suck, background and new models have become the laughing stock of the whole wargaming world...

When I had my first introduction game of Warmachine ~5 years ago, I IMMEDIATELY saw the impressive level of depth involved. My plan failed miserably, but after the game I saw excactly why. Fast forward 5 years and I'm still learning and mastering Warmachine/Hordes. I have played 50+ tournaments in my Warhammer Fantasy time and I was quite good at it. But compared to Warmachine, WHF is just a joke.

Infinity is my next game because I want more variety.

GWs games wouldn't offer me that. All they could offer is 1000$ of money better spent on something else.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Warmachine won't scratch your 40K itch. This is something I really wish I had figured out before dumping a tonne of money into Warmachine, as it turns out it really wasn't for me. I singled out this post because it's exactly how I used to feel during the transition from 40K. If what you're after is a replacement to 40K, Warmachine is absolutely not the answer. Historical games ended up being what I needed, you just gotta look at what's out there and decide what suits your personal tastes.

Honestly it's kind of a weird thing. I like the idea of Warmachine: a game where almost everything is viable and tactics work, as well as one with streamlined rules. Just... when I play, it doesn't feel that way to me, it feels frustrating for some reason. I really can't explain it. It feels overly complex (not with rules bloat, but with interactions between rules. Almost every game I forget something crucial because there's just so many things to remember) and ultimately I get this weird feeling when I'm playing it. I really can't explain it more than that. I never got that kind of feeling with 40k (although granted that was 12 years ago). I imagine that must be how MtG players feel during those games, analyzing every move and thinking two steps ahead, etc. It made, and makes, me feel uncomfortable when playing.

There's also the issue of there not being much beyond Warmachine and 40k in my area. There is some Bolt Action but it happens on a day when I can't make it to the store, and while I tried a few demo games of that it didn't feel right to me either. Nobody plays historical games, or Infinity, or Deadzone or Malifaux or whatever. I really think my issue with 40k is due to GW, and nothing else. But I'm not sure.

If you feel that way about WMH, then you can forget about Infinity and Malifaux as well. All of those games are defined by the need to think ahead and have a plan if you intend to win the game.

I know this is going to sound rude, but it seems like you just wan't a game where you can just roll some dice and never give any actual thought about what is happening on the table or possibly you are using the game as just an excuse to socialize instead of actually enjoying the gaming experience?! Why do you like table top wargaming in the first place?

PhantomViper wrote:
If you feel that way about WMH, then you can forget about Infinity and Malifaux as well. All of those games are defined by the need to think ahead and have a plan if you intend to win the game.

I know this is going to sound rude, but it seems like you just wan't a game where you can just roll some dice and never give any actual thought about what is happening on the table or possibly you are using the game as just an excuse to socialize instead of actually enjoying the gaming experience?! Why do you like table top wargaming in the first place?

No offense taken I've asked myself that same question recently.

I like the narrative aspect, fighting out a battle or something like that with a story behind it; I like straightforward tactics versus chess-like thinking on your feet (that's not say I don't want any tactics at all, I do). You might be right, I don't know. I didn't play any tabletop game for 12 years (the last time I played 40k) until like april or may of this year when I found Warmachine.

WayneTheGame wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
If you feel that way about WMH, then you can forget about Infinity and Malifaux as well. All of those games are defined by the need to think ahead and have a plan if you intend to win the game.

I know this is going to sound rude, but it seems like you just wan't a game where you can just roll some dice and never give any actual thought about what is happening on the table or possibly you are using the game as just an excuse to socialize instead of actually enjoying the gaming experience?! Why do you like table top wargaming in the first place?

No offense taken I've asked myself that same question recently.

I like the narrative aspect, fighting out a battle or something like that with a story behind it; I like straightforward tactics versus chess-like thinking on your feet (that's not say I don't want any tactics at all, I do). You might be right, I don't know. I didn't play any tabletop game for 12 years (the last time I played 40k) until like april or may of this year when I found Warmachine.

I would direct you to a number of narrative gaming systems, but since you can't find any group to play in your area that doesn't play just 40k or WMH, then esoteric games like FoF or Tomorrow's War would be impossible to find.

Have you considered joining an RPG group? From what you say, a RPG seems to be much more up your alley than any tabletop wargame.

If you don't like RPGs, try to find a group that plays an historical game like FoW or maybe Saga (or Bolt Action, even if you didn't like the demo, try again with a different person). Historical games have a much bigger narrative component and use more straightforward tactics than WMH, Infinity or Malifaux.

I'm the exact opposite. When I played Warmachine for the first time, I found what I had wanted. It scratched the itch I didn't know was there. After that, every time I went back to play 40k, it felt almost childish. Rules were too complex but the strategy wasn't there. I wanted a tough strategy game that rewarded thinking and not list building.
Same with Infinity. I didn't want to just toss dice and hope I win. I wanted to think.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
I just have to add that for all the reasons I dislike GW, I'm still constantly tempted to play again; even though I play Warmachine right now it doesn't feel the same, and I'm not 100% sure I play it because I actually want to, or because it's a tabletop game that isn't 40k that other people play.

I don't quite know why.. must be some sort of corruption

Warmachine won't scratch your 40K itch. This is something I really wish I had figured out before dumping a tonne of money into Warmachine, as it turns out it really wasn't for me. I singled out this post because it's exactly how I used to feel during the transition from 40K. If what you're after is a replacement to 40K, Warmachine is absolutely not the answer. Historical games ended up being what I needed, you just gotta look at what's out there and decide what suits your personal tastes.

The same was for me, but it was Battletech. I tried Rouge Trader but it wasn't Battletech. So couldn't really get into it. Then I quit the Hobby. Later I tried 40K still didn't get into it. This time I learnt my lesson, so didn't get rid of my 40K stuff like I did with my Battletech and all other games I had. Few years after that I finally really gotten into 40K.

What I guess I am trying to say is, in most cases, switching from system to another will not replace the empty feeling you have. It will take time. It's like having a dog or cat die. You just don't get a new dog or cat to replace the one that died because it doesn't replace who you have lost.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I like the moral ambiguity that Infinity has. It doesn't have the Mary Sue White Knights but it doesn't have the mustache twirling throne of dead babies villains.

I sort of agree... though the story isn't really presented as such a morally ambiguous thing. The background for each faction basically shows it's morality and it's reasons for doing things the way they do.

When I moved from 40k to warmachine I felt a ton of weight coming off my shoulders. I was not having any fun during 6th edition with my army. Knowing most of the time I did not have a chance against certain armies just bother me. I don't mind to lose, Iam pretty good at it. But losing just because one codex was written better then the other to me is just not a fair fight. Now that I play warmachine I know most of the time I lose its because I made a mistake or my opponent got lucky with a roll.

Also I hate when people say war is not fair. Of course war is not fair but I expect a game to be fair

WayneTheGame wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
If you feel that way about WMH, then you can forget about Infinity and Malifaux as well. All of those games are defined by the need to think ahead and have a plan if you intend to win the game.

I know this is going to sound rude, but it seems like you just wan't a game where you can just roll some dice and never give any actual thought about what is happening on the table or possibly you are using the game as just an excuse to socialize instead of actually enjoying the gaming experience?! Why do you like table top wargaming in the first place?

No offense taken I've asked myself that same question recently.

I like the narrative aspect, fighting out a battle or something like that with a story behind it; I like straightforward tactics versus chess-like thinking on your feet (that's not say I don't want any tactics at all, I do). You might be right, I don't know. I didn't play any tabletop game for 12 years (the last time I played 40k) until like april or may of this year when I found Warmachine.

Have you tried suggesting other games to your group/club to try out? Sometimes it only takes one or two people to start something snowballing. I know a system that's pretty damn fantastic for narrative that a friend and I are trying. We don't intend to take it to our local club because of powergamers. If you can get one or two like-minded friends interested in something, then at the very least you have a couple of other people playing.

http://www.titaniumspork.org/aetherverse-2nd-edition

This is what we're using. It's not too far away from earlier editions of 40K, but it's also not a massive clusterfeth of rules.

 Chute82 wrote:
When I moved from 40k to warmachine I felt a ton of weight coming off my shoulders. I was not having any fun during 6th edition with my army. Knowing most of the time I did not have a chance against certain armies just bother me. I don't mind to lose, Iam pretty good at it. But losing just because one codex was written better then the other to me is just not a fair fight. Now that I play warmachine I know most of the time I lose its because I made a mistake or my opponent got lucky with a roll.

Also I hate when people say war is not fair. Of course war is not fair but I expect a game to be fair

If people say that, then a Tyranid player should play with like a million points while a Space Marine player should play with like ten thousand points. I guess then that would be a fair game.

You are right. When playing a game where everything should be equal at the beginning. Everyone is on equal footing. When starting a game, someone shouldn't be handi capped because they have no AA or has over powered rules/units while nobody takes the crappy ones. A player shouldn't be hampered with rules that have draw backs while the opponent doesn't have a drawback. One codex gets cheaper units while another codex 2 editions away still has to pay more but gets less.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That is actually an interesting point. What is the unique thing you get from 40K (or Fantasy) that you can't get from any alternative game. Other than it being 40K/Fantasy, of course.

Or perhaps you don't get it any more.

I think that's a good question for everyone.
For me, it comes down to 2 little words; My Army.

Everything that I loved about Warhammer is in those 2 words. I don't want to play Iron Lich Asphy, Infinity anime character #471, or really even a character in a mythology I really like, like Seamus or Horus.

They're MY dudes. I want to look out on a sea of fierce faces and feel like I'm leading them. I want to duplicate great historic strategies and prove my tactical mastery. Every dropped option, random element, and retconned/flushed bit of fluff from GW destroys that feeling for me.

I'm liking Malifaux for the same reason I used to like 40k, possibility.

 Boggy Man wrote:

I think that's a good question for everyone.
For me, it comes down to 2 little words; My Army.

Everything that I loved about Warhammer is in those 2 words. I don't want to play Iron Lich Asphy, Infinity anime character #471, or really even a character in a mythology I really like, like Seamus or Horus.

They're MY dudes. I want to look out on a sea of fierce faces and feel like I'm leading them. I want to duplicate great historic strategies and prove my tactical mastery. Every dropped option, random element, and retconned/flushed bit of fluff from GW destroys that feeling for me.

I'm liking Malifaux for the same reason I used to like 40k, possibility.

Interesting thoughts, though I can't help but disagree.

To be fair, A generic infinity character has as much scope for being part of 'your army' as a generic space marine character. And fir most, 'their army' is led by a named character - ergo, no different from warmachine. Regarding the supposed customisation which so many like, I would point to the fact that of those thousands of possible combos, only a few ever turn up.

I'd go further. For me, it's entirely possible to make 'my army' from any game. A sea of fierce faces? Yup. Got that here. Duplicate great historic strategies? Yeah, I don't think Hannibal or Patton had dreadnoughts or astartes, to begin with, and I would argue there is only the barest glimmer of real strategy in 40k. 40k is quite limited in tactical depth, I disagree with the idea it can be used to duplicate great historic strategies.

I think what gets people is the 'illusion' of choice in 40k, and what keeps them involved is the idea of what 40k 'could be', someday. Hope. People want 40k to be this amazing game. They'll believe in this 'promised land' and that keeps them going. Some of us heathens turned from the oath though.

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That is actually an interesting point. What is the unique thing you get from 40K (or Fantasy) that you can't get from any alternative game. Other than it being 40K/Fantasy, of course.

Or perhaps you don't get it any more.

I think that's a good question for everyone.
For me, it comes down to 2 little words; My Army.

Everything that I loved about Warhammer is in those 2 words. I don't want to play Iron Lich Asphy, Infinity anime character #471, or really even a character in a mythology I really like, like Seamus or Horus.

They're MY dudes. I want to look out on a sea of fierce faces and feel like I'm leading them. I want to duplicate great historic strategies and prove my tactical mastery. Every dropped option, random element, and retconned/flushed bit of fluff from GW destroys that feeling for me.

I'm liking Malifaux for the same reason I used to like 40k, possibility.

Infinity is no more 'special-character-based' than 40k. You get to take a force of 'your team' and avoid named characters all together if you want.

 Daba wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That is actually an interesting point. What is the unique thing you get from 40K (or Fantasy) that you can't get from any alternative game. Other than it being 40K/Fantasy, of course.

Or perhaps you don't get it any more.

I think that's a good question for everyone.
For me, it comes down to 2 little words; My Army.

Everything that I loved about Warhammer is in those 2 words. I don't want to play Iron Lich Asphy, Infinity anime character #471, or really even a character in a mythology I really like, like Seamus or Horus.

They're MY dudes. I want to look out on a sea of fierce faces and feel like I'm leading them. I want to duplicate great historic strategies and prove my tactical mastery. Every dropped option, random element, and retconned/flushed bit of fluff from GW destroys that feeling for me.

I'm liking Malifaux for the same reason I used to like 40k, possibility.

Infinity is no more 'special-character-based' than 40k. You get to take a force of 'your team' and avoid named characters all together if you want.

Yeah, I don't get what point is trying to made with the comparison to Infinity.

WMH is certainly about named characters (since all caster are such), but then I see a considerable amount of 40k that is the exact same thing (Baron-star, Fateweaver, etc.). WH40k does offer the option to have your own unique characters as compared to WMH, and this is (to my knowledge) the same as Infinity. But I fail to see how "space marine captain #532" is any different than "infinity anime character #471". Because you came up with fluff for one? Am I missing something?