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 Art_of_war wrote:


The only snag is that GW models are a joy to paint, shame the game is naff

Nothing at all to stop you collecting miniatures just to paint, you don't have to spend $600 on an army and upgrade rule and army books every 2 years.

A number of people I know do this, I buy miniatures from ranges that I have like with no intention of buying the rules or an army for that system. In fact, doing the odd mini from another range is a great way of breaking up large army-paints!

I'm trying really hard to get into WMH but the awful model quality, missing parts in every kit and aesthetics I don't care for are making it difficult. Also the fact that there's still 4-5 times as many 40k players in my area so I can always get a game. With WMH I had to put my contact info up in stores and hunt down obscure FB groups to find a few people to get a game in.

Toofast wrote:
I'm trying really hard to get into WMH but the awful model quality, missing parts in every kit and aesthetics I don't care for are making it difficult.

Aesthetics I can't/wont argue... but model quality I will.... I've bought quite a few kits, and all have been of decent-good quality. My only real gripe was with ONE kit, that had a mold line directly through an "eyeball" of a Convergence light 'Jack (and that eye had quite a bit of intricate detail in it) But I've honestly never had a kit with missing parts or anything like that.

Toofast wrote:
I'm trying really hard to get into WMH but the awful model quality, missing parts in every kit and aesthetics I don't care for are making it difficult. Also the fact that there's still 4-5 times as many 40k players in my area so I can always get a game. With WMH I had to put my contact info up in stores and hunt down obscure FB groups to find a few people to get a game in.

That seems like it's more a problem with your area than the game itself. Honestly the plastic isn't as good as GW plastic but it's far from "awful". The most annoying part is that mold lines tend to be in the worst places (through faces, etc.) and the fact most of the weapons are bent.

Compared to GW plastic, the details are softer, mold lines are difficult to remove and in the worst places (GW intentionally molds things so the mold lines are as hidden as possible), there are injection spots that are a pain to get rid of, every single cinerators sword in my kit was bent, 2 of them so badly that they contact the shield in the other hand (and they cannot be straightened out no matter what I try), and I've seen more missing pieces in 1 WMH box than I've had in 15 years and $2,500~ worth of GW kits combined. They just feel and look like cheap toys rather than high quality models. Also the sculpts aren't nearly as detailed. I would rather work with finecast all day than PP plastics and I hate finecast.

I will say that the one Stormwall I've built was probably the most nightmarish model I've ever put together.

Art_of_war wrote:The only snag is that GW models are a joy to paint, shame the game is naff

Box of Dark Eldar Wyches + 30mm bases from EM4 Miniatures = awesome cryx-appropriate Nyss Hunters.

Toofast wrote:I'm trying really hard to get into WMH but the awful model quality

I've had no problem with the medium and large based models, nor any problems with small based metal models, but I absolutely hate their small infantry in plastic. They remind me of Mantic's bad dreadball stuff.

Actually, it was the miniatures that got me interested in Warmachine in the first place. Before I bought into it, I was always eying those Khador jacks.
But then I saw this and knew I was hooked. It is my #1 favorite mini.

Sure, their plastics are frustrating some times, but some of their minis are very outstanding.
But really, the game itself is just so much better that whatever deficiency the minis have is overlooked.

Privateers metals over the last few years have been awesome.

i've been a fan of PP's metals from day 1, and own a ton of them, but as soon as the switch was made to restic, my purchases went to 0 for anything in that material...
having looked at the minis in hand, i walked straight away, and never looked back...
i'll still buy the metal stuff, and the proper resin Collosals are nice, but restic is horrible...

too bad the ever-rising cost of metal has made the mini industry shift to this horrendous material...
there are a lot of sculpts, from a lot of different companies, that i would love to own, but that won't happen as long as the material is rubbish...
i am interested in seeing the new Relic Knights casts, and the Kings of War casts, and see if there really is an improvement happening...

cheers
jah

As much as I hate to say it looks like I'll be keeping my 40K GW stuff for a while. Bartertownt is glutted with people trying to offload their armies and I'm not quite ready to take that big of a bath to unload my stuff. Ebay hasn't been too friendly either, so I'll just sit on them and bide my time.

I hate to break it to you but the prices will only continue to drop unless GW has some kind of major turnaround. Every day more people leave GW than start a new army. The supply of second hand GW minis is constantly rising while the demand is dropping with no end in sight. I don't need to be an econ major to see the writing on the wall here.

Toofast wrote:
I hate to break it to you but the prices will only continue to drop unless GW has some kind of major turnaround. Every day more people leave GW than start a new army. The supply of second hand GW minis is constantly rising while the demand is dropping with no end in sight. I don't need to be an econ major to see the writing on the wall here.

But wait a little longer and he will be selling OOP models, of course so will anyone selling GW models .

I doubt that. Regardless of what happens to GW, their models and rules bring in $200 mil of revenue. Somebody will pick up where GW left off and hopefully write some decent rules to go along with all the awesome models.

Someone will snatch up GeeDub before they go completely down the tube.That purchaser might wait until they GW is gasping for breath or they might move in sooner to save the brand and rebuild it.

GW might turn around (especially if they are hiring a new Chief Executive. I don't want them to go away, I like diversity in the game world. Plus their IP has some history.

I'm just done with the current model and the way they abuse their customers. If they turn around and join the 21st century and realize they are no longer the only game in town I might even come back!

I've got a marine army sitting there unpainted, along with some necrons unpainted, still deciding to keep it or sell it

Honestly im not sure yet though, personally im looking foward to the plastics mantic are about to release,

If they can keep it up it may be my new thang!

khealos wrote:
As much as I hate to say it looks like I'll be keeping my 40K GW stuff for a while. Bartertownt is glutted with people trying to offload their armies and I'm not quite ready to take that big of a bath to unload my stuff. Ebay hasn't been too friendly either, so I'll just sit on them and bide my time.

Take it from experience - if you like the models still, don't sell your stuff. Unless you need the money or they're taking up needed space, just let them sit there. If in 5 years GW have turned themselves around, fixed their game, and have something you want to play, it's all there to unpack. However, it's also there if you want to proxy then in a game you've bought or use them in a game that doesn't have its own model line. Want to do some humans vs high tech aliens in Tomorrows War? Buy some modern day humans to face off against some Tau you have kicking around.

I still think GW is best-in-business when it comes to multi-part plastic kits -- it is so easy to work with, you can so many diverse and easily interchangeable bits, it just begs to be converted or kitbashed. The sculpts themselves are a matter of aesthetics, what you get in an overall kit is still pretty impressive.

...I don't know that it justifies the cost, though, since they were delivering on a lot of these kits in the same way significantly cheaper like as recently as a few years ago, and every kit needs to be bought in multiple to be fielded. Paying $60 for Witch Elves/Sisters of Slaughter is kinda steep, but the killer for me is I need 3 or 4 boxes for a playable unit.

The "multi-source" nickel-and-diming is also really bothering me (how the eff does my "Warboss edition" codex not have the rules for a looted wagon, of all things?) Doesn't the mission statement say "Part of the fun of the hobby is collecting a range of citadel miniatures," not "part of the fun of the hobby is collecting our range of special edition codices, dataslates (only on iOS!), and out-of-print White Dwarfs!" Other companies have taken the attitude that the rules should be pretty accessible, or even free....and you know what? It makes me buy more stuff! ("Wow, such-and-such unit is actually pretty good, I should get it.")

 -Loki- wrote:

khealos wrote:
As much as I hate to say it looks like I'll be keeping my 40K GW stuff for a while. Bartertownt is glutted with people trying to offload their armies and I'm not quite ready to take that big of a bath to unload my stuff. Ebay hasn't been too friendly either, so I'll just sit on them and bide my time.

Take it from experience - if you like the models still, don't sell your stuff. Unless you need the money or they're taking up needed space, just let them sit there. If in 5 years GW have turned themselves around, fixed their game, and have something you want to play, it's all there to unpack. However, it's also there if you want to proxy then in a game you've bought or use them in a game that doesn't have its own model line. Want to do some humans vs high tech aliens in Tomorrows War? Buy some modern day humans to face off against some Tau you have kicking around.

The only time I recommend selling off your models is if you genuinely don't want to get back in to 40k and don't want the models hanging around to tempt you to get back in to it I've quit several times over the years and come back, I do wonder if I'd have been better off doing what my friends did and just selling everything so I had less reason to get back in to it.

But otherwise, yeah, I'd hold on to the models in case you do want to get back in to it later.

To be honest I have not touched my 40K stuff since 4th edition. I don't see myself playing 40k again and while I did enjoy painting and playing I have moved on. Good advice all around but I do need the money and have to fund Dropzone somehow

I didn't see myself playing 40k again, so I sold my two armies and bought into Infinity and Warmachine.
I kept my SOB army a bit longer, but when I looked at it I realized that I had lost all excitement and love for them. I just saw kind of crappy metal models that were taking up shelf space and could get me a new army in another game.

Toofast wrote:
I'm trying really hard to get into WMH but the awful model quality.

Plastics can be temperamental, but their metals rarely have any issues. And that said, I've not had any major issues with any of the plastics I've bought, bars one minor gripe regarding my gun carriage (any khador jacks I bought were fine (5+), men o war were fine, warpwolves were fine, skinwalkers were fine etc). Metal wise, no complaints from me - they're solid as anything.

Toofast wrote:
missing parts in every kit

Eh, no. 'Every' kit? Demonstrably false.

In any case, with respect, You bought/shared in one kit (iirc?) that had issues. And pp will replace those parts. I've bought over £2000 of WMH over the last few years and I've never had any missing parts in any of my kits, over two factions and a whole bunch of Mercs/minions.

Toofast wrote:
and aesthetics I don't care for are making it difficult.

The aesthetics grow on you. They certainly did for me. A lot of not liking the pp look comes less from it being bad, and more for folks simply being immersed primarily in the aesthetics in 40k, and assuming them as 'the standard', and simply 'being used to' them. It comes as a bit of a shock to the system to,see other aesthetics. Taken as their own, they're fine. They're internally consistent, and have their eon influences (the jack 'look' for example is based on the hunched over American footballers lined up in a scrimmage (terminology might be off!)

Toofast wrote:
Also the fact that there's still 4-5 times as many 40k players in my area so I can always get a game.

The player base Doesn't matter though when you either don't like the game itself, have issues with the people playing, or are at odds/an impasse with them in terms of 'how' you want to play it. I think you're the latter, right? You want to play competitively, and the others don't, if I remember from your other thread? If that's the case, it doesn't really matter if there's a thousand of them. It's nice to be part of a big player base, but it's not so nice when you're not enjoying it.

Toofast wrote:
With WMH I had to put my contact info up in stores and hunt down obscure FB groups to find a few people to get a game in.

So?

It will always be harder to get things going when a game isn't a headliner. That's no reason to dislike the game itself though. Same with us here and dropzone commander. Love the game to pieces, but the numbers playing it are thinner on the ground than with other games. Niot an issue - just get involved with those who do play it, and have fun.

At my FLGS the warmachine players are getting together and exchanging info so we can plan more games together. There's two veterans and four newbies. (Me being one of them.)
It takes work and time, but keep at it and you'll have your own community going.

ComTrav wrote:
I still think GW is best-in-business when it comes to multi-part plastic kits -- it is so easy to work with, you can so many diverse and easily interchangeable bits, it just begs to be converted or kitbashed. The sculpts themselves are a matter of aesthetics, what you get in an overall kit is still pretty impressive.

The problem with them is the poses end up looking really stiff and forced instead of dynamic, because they need to make a body that works with however many arm parts they include, a neckline that works with all available heads, arms that sit above any waistline details, etc. The only reason multi-pose plastic are useful in 40k is GW themselves created an atmosphere where they were desired - a dozen options for a squad, many on a single model (the sergeant), and many, many models for an army made people want multi-pose models simply to paint something different.

When you compare them to even GW's single pose characters, the single pose models look far more interesting and dynamic, and their poses much less forced.

So it's not really that GW are still the best at making them because they're just better at making them, it's because other companies haven't create their games or product lines which make multi-pose plastics desirable.

jah-joshua wrote:i've been a fan of PP's metals from day 1, and own a ton of them, but as soon as the switch was made to restic, my purchases went to 0 for anything in that material...
having looked at the minis in hand, i walked straight away, and never looked back...
i'll still buy the metal stuff, and the proper resin Collosals are nice, but restic is horrible...

This describes me as well. I love PP's metals and don't buy their plastics at all. And the smaller the miniature, the worse it is. There are some almost passable large and medium models in that plastic, but the small base ones are horrible with shallow detail I wouldn't want to inflict them on anyone.

 frozenwastes wrote:

jah-joshua wrote:i've been a fan of PP's metals from day 1, and own a ton of them, but as soon as the switch was made to restic, my purchases went to 0 for anything in that material...
having looked at the minis in hand, i walked straight away, and never looked back...
i'll still buy the metal stuff, and the proper resin Collosals are nice, but restic is horrible...

This describes me as well. I love PP's metals and don't buy their plastics at all. And the smaller the miniature, the worse it is. There are some almost passable large and medium models in that plastic, but the small base ones are horrible with shallow detail I wouldn't want to inflict them on anyone.

Just bought a box of the new plastic Bane Thralls and I didn't have a single cause for complain with them, same thing with a box of CoC Reductors. On the other hand, the box of Bane Riders that I bought at the same time required a considerable amount of elbow grease to get the horses to align because they were a bit bent (nothing that hot water didn't solve luckily).

Either I'm incredibly lucky or I just can't seem to associate mold lines and bent spears with horrible quality like some people do...

Also "shallow detail"? Do you paint your models with wall paint for this to even be considered a problem?!

 Pacific wrote:

 Art_of_war wrote:


The only snag is that GW models are a joy to paint, shame the game is naff

Nothing at all to stop you collecting miniatures just to paint, you don't have to spend $600 on an army and upgrade rule and army books every 2 years.

A number of people I know do this, I buy miniatures from ranges that I have like with no intention of buying the rules or an army for that system. In fact, doing the odd mini from another range is a great way of breaking up large army-paints!

I agree. Also, if you love the miniatures, have you considered using them with a different set of rules? We've got alot of Warhammer minis that still make it onto the table with our games of Kings of War, and I'm looking forward to putting alot of my 40k minis back on the table when the full Warpath rules are released.

 Eilif wrote:


I agree. Also, if you love the miniatures, have you considered using them with a different set of rules? We've got alot of Warhammer minis that still make it onto the table with our games of Kings of War, and I'm looking forward to putting alot of my 40k minis back on the table when the full Warpath rules are released.

I think a lot of the GW models are gorgeous but too pricy for my blood just to buy, paint, and never use. For me I'd rather buy models that I will use to paint

I'm re purposing some dwarf models for a Song of Blades and Heroes

Deadnight wrote:

Toofast wrote:
and aesthetics I don't care for are making it difficult.

The aesthetics grow on you. They certainly did for me. A lot of not liking the pp look comes less from it being bad, and more for folks simply being immersed primarily in the aesthetics in 40k, and assuming them as 'the standard', and simply 'being used to' them. It comes as a bit of a shock to the system to,see other aesthetics. Taken as their own, they're fine. They're internally consistent, and have their eon influences (the jack 'look' for example is based on the hunched over American footballers lined up in a scrimmage (terminology might be off!)

To be fair, aesthetics don't always grow on you. I've tried to get into Warmachine in the past, and every faction has models I enjoy and models I just cannot stand due to the games aesthetic direction. It works sometimes and sometimes just doesn't for me. It doesn't 'grow on you' for everyone.

I sold a ltd edition SM SF Ultra captain - and bought 8 X-Wing pre-painted ships with cards and tokens for that money. I lie... I sold 2 and bought 16 ; p Then another 3 starters and some other extras to go with it. So long GW, and thanks for all the fish!