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Punishment for 2nd edition allowing them to have Cyclone Missile Launchers AND Assault Cannons?

Seriously, no clue. It's GW. Everything they do is random, unless it's for generic Space Marines/Ultramarines who get a bunch of stuff because they're the most likely army that 12-year old Timmy has.

They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

Have patience, there are all ready rumors around Space Wolves.

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

This is untrue.

They could release an edition with all the codices updated at the same time, then spend the next four years working on a new edition/tweaking the current one while simultaneously working on all the codices so that all of them are designed with the upcoming edition in time.

They just choose a different release schedule/method. Personally, I'm not a fan.

As for the Wolves, I've always been an advocate of rolling them into a big book of marines anyways, that way they'd get updated quicker and free up more release slots/time for other armies.

Space Wolves still hold up well compared to other armies, grey hunters and long fangs give you a great base to work from still. TBH I thought the guard dex was in more need of updating, and the CSM 'dex which is 6th ed is definitely in more need of it as it's trashy. Not saying SW shouldn't get an update - they should. But Blood Angels and Sisters especially should get it first.

It's not ideal, but you can always use the vanilla codex to play your wolves if current wolves aren't doing it for you, or better yet mix vanilla + wolves in one army.

With GW its always 1 step forward 2 steps back. In the same tune, wolves got updated from 2 or 3rd to 5th, then got screwed by rules overhaul in 6th and again in 7th.

 Blacksails wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

As for the Wolves, I've always been an advocate of rolling them into a big book of marines anyways, that way they'd get updated quicker and free up more release slots/time for other armies.

The Space Wolves individuality is what makes them so much more interesting than vanilla marines. Losing their own codex would be worse than it never being updated.

You share this distinction with Necrons, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights. Do not worry, my wolfy wolf friend, your book will be wolfed in time.

Random Dude wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

As for the Wolves, I've always been an advocate of rolling them into a big book of marines anyways, that way they'd get updated quicker and free up more release slots/time for other armies.

The Space Wolves individuality is what makes them so much more interesting than vanilla marines. Losing their own codex would be worse than it never being updated.

I play wolves and marines in general, i would not give a damn if they rolled them all into 1 codex, if that meant more consistent chapter updates.

Random Dude wrote:


The Space Wolves individuality is what makes them so much more interesting than vanilla marines. Losing their own codex would be worse than it never being updated.

Debatable. Much of their book is just name changes, and most of the supposedly unique units have incredibly similar if not nearly identical counterparts in the vanilla book. There's no reason why Long Fangs couldn't just be ordinary devs with a different name, or why Grey Hunters can't just be Tac squads with a slightly different weapon loadout (arguably one that all other marines could have access to for DIY chapters and such).

Properly done, rolling them in would preserve their flavour, add options for all other possible chapters, make it cheaper to own multiple marine armies, have a single book to reference all marine wargear/items, and is easier to balance and update, instead of having to worry about 4+ power armour books.

I wouldn't call them neglected. They re still going strong. I mean look at it this way, I hate space wolves, but would rather use their codex for my Khorne army than the chaos marine book.

 Ignatius wrote:
I wouldn't call them neglected. They re still going strong. I mean look at it this way, I hate space wolves, but would rather use their codex for my Khorne army than the chaos marine book.

Sad but true, I've done the same ; /

Jeez, using 5th edition? The Orks where still on 4th until recently.

GW dont neglect SW they just sort out codex's more in need first.

Despite the fact that I think Space Wolves don't deserve their own Codex on principle I'd hate for them to get the Codex+Supplement treatment or the Codex treatment. If you roll them into the marine book and put all of their flavor units in a supplement then you are making Space Wolf players pay twice for the same amount of rules. A big loss for the end consumer. If you roll them into the main marine book you bloat the thing with more unnecessary page length fluff pieces (Which I think are filler), HD miniature galleries and the pertinent rule sections. This will undoubtedly bump up the price of the book and make it bigger. You make Vanilla marine players and Space Wolf players pay more for rules they don't want. Another loss for the consumer.

The current Codex system is the best choice for the customer because of GW's insane pricing. Trying to roll it has no real benefit outside of the principle of not giving Marines more codices.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Random Dude wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

As for the Wolves, I've always been an advocate of rolling them into a big book of marines anyways, that way they'd get updated quicker and free up more release slots/time for other armies.

The Space Wolves individuality is what makes them so much more interesting than vanilla marines. Losing their own codex would be worse than it never being updated.

I play wolves and marines in general, i would not give a damn if they rolled them all into 1 codex, if that meant more consistent chapter updates.

This. The way I build the army and the way I push it around the table is plenty defining for me, whether I use the Wolves book or play them as White Scars. I'd much rather have seen the BA, DA, and Wolves get the Black Templar treatment.

Instead, we've got a 4 year old codex with a mono build centered around the only decent thing in the army book.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
. If you roll them into the marine book and put all of their flavor units in a supplement then you are making Space Wolf players pay twice for the same amount of rules..

There is no need for their flavour units to be in a separate publication.

Speaking as a Space Wolves player, I would rather see all of the Marine Chapters rolled into one book with an updated version of the Chapter Traits system from 4th edition, allowing you to use pre-set traits to create the 'name' Chapters, or custom trait combinations for your own Chapter.

There is absolutely no need for Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels to all have their own books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

They've updated everybody all at once twice before.

They simply choose to not do so now.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
. If you roll them into the marine book and put all of their flavor units in a supplement then you are making Space Wolf players pay twice for the same amount of rules..

There is no need for their flavour units to be in a separate publication.

Speaking as a Space Wolves player, I would rather see all of the Marine Chapters rolled into one book with an updated version of the Chapter Traits system from 4th edition, allowing you to use pre-set traits to create the 'name' Chapters, or custom trait combinations for your own Chapter.

There is absolutely no need for Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels to all have their own books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bodazoka wrote:
They are doing every army, it is just impossible to do them all at once.

They've updated everybody all at once twice before.

They simply choose to not do so now.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with you. On principle. It's just that I think that given GW's bottomless capacity for greed that they'll stiff the Wolf/Angels players if they roll the codices into one.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
. If you roll them into the marine book and put all of their flavor units in a supplement then you are making Space Wolf players pay twice for the same amount of rules..

There is no need for their flavour units to be in a separate publication.

Speaking as a Space Wolves player, I would rather see all of the Marine Chapters rolled into one book with an updated version of the Chapter Traits system from 4th edition, allowing you to use pre-set traits to create the 'name' Chapters, or custom trait combinations for your own Chapter.

There is absolutely no need for Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels to all have their own books.

I agree wholeheartedly. Not only is there not enough differences to justify the entire book for a separate chapter, by combining them and then giving customization options to make your own chapter, space marines would be a much more awesome faction overall.

It also nicely does away with the whole 'x book gets an update which adds new stuff that the other chapters don't get access to for another 4 years' thing.

Because the Space Wolves slaughtered the Thousand Sons..... and are dicks

At this point rolling them in to the Marine codex would be bad. It could have been done in 3rd edition with no great loss (if it was written properly), but now SW have 8 special characters, 2 entirely unique units (Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry) and also a few units that are somewhat unique (Scouts, Wolf Guard, Wolf Priests, Blood Claws).

You either keep those things and bloat the vanilla Marine book or you drop them and dropping things is never a great option.

If the rumours are to be believed we should expect a codex update this summer, which as you say is needed. I still enjoy playing them and the fluff is always some of the best.
I was hoping for some updated models or new ones but I think as it stands just the codex, but I will take that.
If you look at the new codexes that have come out SW should get something similar.

Random Dude wrote:
I love Space Wolves. They have some of the best back story of any army in the game, but GW never fails to neglect them. Currently they are still using a 5th edition codex which has really limited my enjoyment in playing them. Does GW have good reasons for focusing heavily on a few armies to the exclusion of others?

They're not neglected. Practically every release they've had has seen them at the top of the game until an edition change, and they're on the slate for this year supposedly, they're right about where they should be in the release cycle.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
At this point rolling them in to the Marine codex would be bad. It could have been done in 3rd edition with no great loss (if it was written properly), but now SW have 8 special characters, 2 entirely unique units (Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry) and also a few units that are somewhat unique (Scouts, Wolf Guard, Wolf Priests, Blood Claws).

You either keep those things and bloat the vanilla Marine book or you drop them and dropping things is never a great option.

You'd add maybe 3-4 pages for their rules, 10 pages total tops if you included fluff and pictures. Given that you're already paying $50 for a book that's less than half the size of most other $50 tabletop gaming books, not the end of the world.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
You share this distinction with Necrons, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights. Do not worry, my wolfy wolf friend, your book will be wolfed in time.

To be exact - Necrons and Grey Knight have a 6th edition codex. Yes, it was released before the 6th edition, but the rules were designed for the 6, not the 5.

 Vaktathi wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
At this point rolling them in to the Marine codex would be bad. It could have been done in 3rd edition with no great loss (if it was written properly), but now SW have 8 special characters, 2 entirely unique units (Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry) and also a few units that are somewhat unique (Scouts, Wolf Guard, Wolf Priests, Blood Claws).

You either keep those things and bloat the vanilla Marine book or you drop them and dropping things is never a great option.

You'd add maybe 3-4 pages for their rules, 10 pages total tops if you included fluff and pictures. Given that you're already paying $50 for a book that's less than half the size of most other $50 tabletop gaming books, not the end of the world.

8 special characters, 2 unique units and 4 somewhat unique units doesn't fit on 3-4 pages. You'd either be removing stuff or bloating the book.

And then once you add that additional content do you really think GW are going to be charging the same price for the big book of Space Marine? Once you throw in BA and DA, along with a couple of pages of fluff on each one, their special characters, their unique units and rules... GW would have a book they want to charge you much more than $50... especially considering even the current SM book is $58.

Neglected? Even as a 5th edition codex, Space Wolves were a sick codice up until the 7th edition FAQ's, which were released just a few weeks ago.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
8 special characters, 2 unique units and 4 somewhat unique units doesn't fit on 3-4 pages. You'd either be removing stuff or bloating the book.

Except the unique and 'somewhat unique' units would be covered by the trait system in my ideal book (A trait covering an affinity with beast that would allow beast packs and cavalry - potentially in exchange for being allowed to use flyers, perhaps, a trait upgrading scouts to veterans, and a trait allowing units to take close combat weapons along with their bolters and pistols, and the current Space Wolf list is mostly covered).

So it's only really the special characters that need specific space in the book... and they can be done with half a page each, with a Space Wolf fluff book released alongside the codex for those who are interested in reading more than the resultant blurb that would accompany the character entry.

Don't feel bad about the Wolves. My friend stuck w/ Sisters for years. They just got worse and worse treatment. It is sad tho so many people wanted to play sisters but their new update was a White Dwarf Codex that made them worse and then a digital codex that was even worse and took choices away.

I'd dearly love for fluff to be separated from rules, then yeah a nice comprehensive trait selection mechanic would be great. Won't happen... you'd almost ask a moderator to help you organise a bunch of level headed forum members to... who am I kidding, ain't no one got time fo' dat ; p

The space wolf rules would easily fit on 10 pages. It's the fluff sections that would take up a lot of space - ie. the 1 page per character in the codex. The new Ork codex merged the 2 sections which is both good and bad. 1 unit per page of the rules is worse to compare at a glance different units, but you don't have to skip over the advertising to check between sections.

The Black Templars were merged into the SM codex without much problem. Even if the Sm codex grows by 30-50 pages, it would be so much better to have all of the space marines in one large, well done book. I'd even be content paying a fair bit for it. Or even better, 2 separate books, perhaps in a cover, 1 rules, 1 fluff.

 Yonan wrote:
I'd even be content paying a fair bit for it.

I wouldn't. Even if all SM chapters were done at the same time but separate light weight books it wouldn't bother me, but I don't really want to buy The Big Book Of Space Marine. Similar to how I don't really like buying dual kits when I can really only make 1 variant (sometimes you can magnetise sometimes it's just a pain in the arse and you feel like you're paying 1.5 times the price to get the option of 2 units but can only actually make 1 of them. I feel like an expensive SM book would just be a bunch of superfluous stuff.

Or even better, 2 separate books, perhaps in a cover, 1 rules, 1 fluff.

I could see GW selling 2 books in a pack, and charging 75% more than a single book with the same combined number of pages. I couldn't see them selling 2 books separately, why charge $40 for fluff and $40 for rules when you can just charge $80 for both in a single package regardless of whether the customer actually wants both?

Personally I reckon the core SM book should do its best to flesh out the lesser known chapters which are more easily captured by a few simple traits and leave the more unique chapters to their own books, even if they're smaller books or maybe released all at once.