Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

fcademartori wrote:
Just to Chime in about the Stikk,

I havent seen anyone mention its not just armor saves that you can re-roll,
to hit, to wound, and saving throws

and i always seem to roll a 1 with my PK so its handy for that as well

Yeah I get it. I honestly didn't see the +1 WS for some reason. Its not to bad. I just like some of the other stuff better. I also only use Big Meks for HQ's most of the time. So its not as important for me like it could be on a Warboss.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Why does he have to table the opponent? He can still win with controlling objectives. From my understanding he can still control an objective with any unit. He just can't contest against others troops. That's not really all that bad.

Of course I have not played against or with unbound yet, so I don't know the full difference while playing.

Another question, do most players play with the tactical objectives or just the regular missions?

If you're not using tactical objectives you're not really playing 7th. They are the thing that balances everything (including making CC viable for everyone) and change the game from gunlining (I including bouncing shooty deathstars around in this style) to tactical objective based play. It makes the movement phase matter and the Assault phase more important, rather than just the shoiting phase mattering like in 6th.

If you're up against a Jetbike army (or indeed any army with highly mobile OS units) and you don't have OS yourself you are playing to table. That is the issue with the Ork Horde Detachment and for a reroll on the Warlord trait table and a pointless HoW rule that will basically never have a meaningful impact on a game you may as well just go unbound and have a full fast army or more Dakka or something. Because at the moment those troops choices aren't really pulling their weight.

As for the lucky stikk, it is one of the best Relic available for an army that wants to do assault. And next to useless for one that doesn't.

The Lukky Stikk rocks. Re-roll to hits, to wound and Any saves is worth the points right there. The fact that it also give +1 WS to the unit the character holding it is attached to just makes it so much better. For a super mobile Ork army take Zardsnark from IA8 and take Warbikes as troops. Super mobile and basicly kill anything with the only real trouble being AV12 Flyers. Everything else will just wither and die to a ridiculous amount of S5 shooting and CC. Objectives won't be problem because you can scoot around the table with ease.

I have never played to table. I always play for objective. If I do table all the better. That is usually just Icing on the cake.

I don't have any interest in running the Ork horde myself. But doesn't mean that people can't win with it. Jetbikes die to shooting just as well to CC. Sometimes better.

And as I have said, I see the point of the lucky stikk. But I refuse to think that it is an auto include. If you feel it is, more power to you. I can see use for the other stuff just the same and depending on the list is what makes me decide what I am going to take to help that list out.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
I have never played to table. I always play for objective. If I do table all the better. That is usually just Icing on the cake.

I don't have any interest in running the Ork horde myself. But doesn't mean that people can't win with it. Jetbikes die to shooting just as well to CC. Sometimes better.

And as I have said, I see the point of the lucky stikk. But I refuse to think that it is an auto include. If you feel it is, more power to you. I can see use for the other stuff just the same and depending on the list is what makes me decide what I am going to take to help that list out.

I don't think you've understood anything I've said I'll try again:

If you don't run an army with OS (like the army in this thread as it is running the Ork Horde Detachment) and you're against an army with mobile OS units and you don't table him you most likely lose. As you have no way of stopping him racking up lots of VPs in the early game. Yes Jetbikes die to shooting I never said or implied they didn't.

Running a shooty Ork army doesn't mean you don't have OS or that you have to play to table. Both combat and shooting are viable with this codex and the codex is at its best when it does both. Warbikers are a perfect example yes they are very shooty but also strong in combat. You want to pump shots into people at range then finish them in combat.

The lucky stikk is not an auto include, it is very good for a combat unit and great for a Warboss. It is pointless in a gunline unless you're using a Big Mek or Warboss in mega armour as a 2+ tank for moving and shooting lootas. Like most good things it is great in the right list but is not right for every list.

How is that even true?

I played a game last night I had 5 vp's (Hold 3 objectives at the end of turn to score D3) before the GK player had any. Luck of the card draw for one, luck of placement for another. But I don't have mobile units. I have Kans, Dreads, Boys and a BW with some Gitz in it. So what if he is mobile doesn't mean he is going to be getting the Vp's any fast then me. What if he draws a card for Objective 4 and both Lootas are standing on it with my whole army in front of them? He will decide whether he wants to keep that objective card or discard it for a better one. Sure they have a bit better chance of getting some of the objective cards early on. Like getting into my deployment zone just as an example. But I don't think one point is going to break me to make me have to table him. And then in that instance, I try to shoot him enough to make him fall back or I try to destroy him before he gets more points. This game is not so cut and dry like you are making it out to be. IMHO.

Again enough with the Stikk, I have agreed with you in the last 4 posts. That horse is dead.

You have lootas on Objective 4 he puts 3 JBs there and gets the VPs. You then kill those 51 points he doesn't care. Yes you can get VPs still but without OS you can't stop him from getting VPs so you're relying on getting lucky with cards or tabling him. He is not reliant on either. Yes you can beat players with OS and without tabling but against good players you are going to be in that situation.

So you are calling me a bad player?

How exactly is he going to get to the Objective 4? He can not get within an inch of me. I have it surrounded.

Yes I can stop him. He still needs to get within 3 inches of them. Orks can cover them with a crap ton of models. So he has to fight through them. While stopping me from getting objectives. Its not so cut and dry like you make it out to believe.

But hey you play your way I will play mine.

Again you completely misunderstand what I've said. I made absolutely no judgement on you as a player.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes you can beat players with OS and without tabling but against good players you are going to be in that situation.

Nope, I understood you completely. And yes you kind of did. Just not in so many words.

I really didn't at most I implied your opponents weren't good players.