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What sort of rule could we have for Haywire affecting Marine Power armour? In canon (Word of Goodwin himself) Marines cannot move without power to his armour.

Maybe on a successful hit on a power armour (including Eldar Aspect armour and Tau battlesuits) or terminator armour model, roll this table:

1: no effect
2-5: may not move - must spend the next turn reactivating and is hit automatically in close combat and does not strike themselves
6: permanently immobilised - remove the model as a casualty


Q. When you say like it, like the Space Marine shoulder pad?
9 A. Yeah. That's more like a historical style of armor pad,
10 which is a lot more realistic, and you can actually move your
11 arm around in there.
12 Q. Whereas you don't think a real person could move his arm
13 around --
14 A. Not without, like I say, motors and things like that. You
15 can imagine when the Marine moves his arms, there's a whole
16 bunch of things in that shoulder and backpack. But if somebody
17 turns the power off and he just stood like that, he wouldn't get
18 to move.

rolling 2-5 for immobolised for a whole turn is very likely.. and in my opinion would make it unfun to play any army that had this rule. I guess Tau wouldnt be as affected since they mostly shoot at a stand still anyway. This rule would make me melt my space marines and buy a new army. And never look at them again

EDIT: if you would want to do something like this, I feel as though this table would be better

1 - no affect/no wound
2-5 - role armor save as normal
6 - immobolised for a turn, still has function to shoot

Well, Haywire weapons come in the forms of CC only grenades and one weapon on Dark Eldar scourges IIRC so it's not as if it is prolific.

I don't think Tau Battlesuits (which is what this would affect) do want to stand and shoot. They are a shooty JSJ unit first and foremost so it would affect them quite badly.

Ah, my apologies, im not super familiar with tau. However, i still would prefer the table i posted in my OP over the table you stated. Simply because on a one, nothing happens, the unit doesnt even have to make an armor save. 2-5 the unit is ok gear wise however still needs to complete an armor save so could still be a casualty. and on a 6, the shot hits its mark and makes the suit immobile.

EDIT: you can even add in that on a 6 not only does it immobolise, but they still have to make the armor save, so there is still the potential of being a casualty, but even if its not, next turn their toast.

Yeah, it might be a bit good. I'll probably also make shooting unavailable on a 6, but making 2-5 not too powerful too.

A very good idea ! But how about tweaking the wording a bit, so that Haywire affects all models with 3+ save or better ?
Tyranid cannot be affected, while all Necron units will be affected, to represent their innate anatomy ?

And about the table, how about:

1: No effect

2-5: In addition to taking an armour save against Wounds caused by weapons with this rule, all models in a unit hit by weapons with this rule must take an additional armour save. If they pass, nothing happens. If they fail, the models failing the test cannot move until the beginning of controlling player's next turn.

6: Cannot move and/or shoot until the beginning of controlling player's next turn.

Is there a way to make it unit-wide but slightly less debilitating? Depending on the size of the squad, I feel like it would be a pain to mark and remember which models were immobilized and which weren't.

DoW

EDIT - Perhaps force the unit to move as if it were in difficult/dangerous terrain?

I do not think this should include aspect armour as, as far as I know, they are just armour plating without any strength aspect (lel) to it.

It should definitely affect Mega-Armour, though.

Would also require heavy nerfs before it is playable as the state you suggest is rather OP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus, you should not put too much stock into one statement, Goodwin or not. I have seen various examples (Ultramarines Omnibus, Dawn of War intro) of Marines being very capable of moving without a backpack at all, even if it is far from optimal. No canon, remember?

how about 1-2 nothing happens,

3-4 the enemy count all attacks as unwieldy and half their Weapon Skill and treat all terrain as difficult.

5-6 the model may not attack in close combat or make shooting attacks, the model may not move ( includes go to ground) although in the case that non-haywired models flee a combat containing inactive models these are counted as destroyed, their fellows leave them behind! The model is also counted as Ws 1 in combat for the purpose of being hit.

While i admit it works better in close combat, Wyches really do need something to make them good tarpits again! I also don't believe Haywire should be overly lethal, as am EMP is nothing to many creatures out there.

These rules already exist sort of, in hh when you hit a mechanicum unit you do an additional wound with haywire on a6.

If were going to give them an effect vs power armored models what about giving them an effect verse necrons?

 Ashiraya wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus, you should not put too much stock into one statement, Goodwin or not. I have seen various examples (Ultramarines Omnibus, Dawn of War intro) of Marines being very capable of moving without a backpack at all, even if it is far from optimal. No canon, remember?

Goodwin overrides those. Those are periphery materials done by people not directly related to the original (and current!) development of Space Marines, so I regard them as not knowing what they're talking about.

 Daba wrote:
Goodwin overrides those.

...No he doesn't. You have absolutely nothing that says he does. The only thing we have is an equally WoG statement that nothing is canon. You want it to be true for reasons I can begin to suspect but has no relevance to the actual topic, but it is not an auto-truth.

Goodwin overrides all other sources? Quote page, paragraph please.

In fact, perhaps Ceramite isolates against Haywire, hmmm? Would explain its current lack of effect.

Do you have any example or proof at all of Haywire stuff having an effect on PA or is it just fanfic? I mean, it's okay to make custom rules for your fanfics, but you should not really try to mask it as WoG if you do.

Well, Goodwin kind of wins all arguments, because nazis...

The simple answer is to force a pinning check on any unit with a 2+ or 3+ save that is hit by a haywire attack.
You'd have an off chance at stalling them for a turn until their power system reboots.

Old haywire rules (2nd edition) actually did bad things to terminators.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The simple answer is to force a pinning check on any unit with a 2+ or 3+ save that is hit by a haywire attack.
You'd have an off chance at stalling them for a turn until their power system reboots.

Old haywire rules (2nd edition) actually did bad things to terminators.

-Matt

Nice and simple! I like it, though I would do the pinning based off a different check maybe?

I agree on the save modifier as a reference point.

However, the big problem I have with it is, if you start including most armor that's electronic, the next logical step is to include any weapons with an electrical component, such as shuriken weapons (cut and propelled electronically), las weapons, flamers (I think), grav weapons, rail weapons, etc.

Power weapons and most force fields would also probably be affected.

Also, plasma guns would explode due to their containment field failing, I think.


Either way, that would require too much specificity. Cool for an RPG setting, impractical detail for a wargame.

I dont think Haywire needs to be any better than it currently is.


Nor do I think MEQ needs to be even weaker than it currently is by making more stuff good against it

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Either way, that would require too much specificity. Cool for an RPG setting, impractical detail for a wargame.

Like most of 40k is already? Too detailed in some areas, not detailed enough when it comes to larger models (so much that it loses details where it needs to next to a 10mm game using the same model!)

As it affects any electronic unit, maybe force a pinning check and if failed any model hit in the unit with Gets Hot! immediately must test as if they suffer Gets Hot.