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 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

I get pretty indepth in my discussions with people about music. A lot of times I play the music in question to be able to better illustrate the point being made. We might play The Division Bell followed by The Final Cut, for example, to better illustrate the differences between an album written by Roger Waters and one written by David Gilmour, while actively discussing those differences. I suppose I see your angle if you limit discussion of music to something as brief and noninvolved as "sup brah, you like dubstep?".

How does that add to the discussion?

I'm sorry, I must have assumed what you meant by

only if you take the word "participating" in its most lax sense. Other people here seem to be able to grasp the gradations of the morality in questionr, it's not too hard.

wrongly. please explain in detail what specifically you meant by that.

There have only been a few people, but on the other hand, there have still been a few people. Your comment still assumes the fallacy that every recast is a lost sale. That's impossible to prove.

"Fallacy?" If you're stating it's a fallacy then you presumably have the evidence to prove it. Please enlighten us.

I have what is likely a recast model of something I wasn't going to buy from Forge World. I know people who have pirated music they never would have bought. That proves there is at least one case in either medium of piracy not reflecting a lost sale.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

As for the BS about copyright all being a "musical industry cartel," that's a tired old device - but one which the big new cartels, especially Google, love. No copyright anywhere, and you get to pay Google and the new digital landgrabbers to access your "free" content.

Maybe. I still don't have to pay Google a dime if I don't want to. Most of the bands I listen to have their own store set up. There's always a middleman, but the cut of the middleman isn't always the same. Plenty of the bands I listen too will say all kinds of bad things about their labels. Not many of them say bad things about Google.

Agreed on this view:

Never would have bought that item at full price: ever.

If I buy a cheap copy is that a lost sale?
In a literal sense, no.

Fun discussions of decreasing the relative worth of the product people bought at full price and the lack of fairness (have / have nots).

After reading about 9 pages and the 12 I must say I'm actually quite surprised that this thread has not been turned into a religious grounds pit, following on how people are talking about Morals and co..

Apart from one thing: God-fearing? really? (I hope this is a figure of speech), No, no one should ever have to live in fear of anything, let alone a being that may or may not exist, that is also morally wrong as that can also be considered supporting bullying.

Of course tell your kids what's right and wrong but tell them because they should feel wrong doing something, not because they will go to somewhere they don't want to against their will when they die.

A life lived in fear is a life half-spent.

(for the record I'm personally agnostic, and follow the rules of the flying spaghetti monster and Dr. Pepper).

Anyway back to topic.

Personally I would play against someone with re-casts, what he/she other uses their money on is not my business and it generally considered bad manners.

As for myself buying something? I really depends on the quality of the mini, as other have said and as I have witnessed myself I have seen a better quality from re-casters than the actual manufacture themselves, and to me it makes sense that if the manufacture is the one who is meant to be making the quality casts and not the other way around, then that's the manufacture not doing their job right. if the re-cast is cheaper then that's just an added bonus.

(for the record I have never bought any re-casts so far from any game, and GW already has a large sum of money from me from my CSM army, and Ork horde I have a Gorkanought ordered for this Friday or Saturday so I'm not one of those hippys who says "stick it to the man" so to say.. But I have been thinking on getting some that I know are a better quality than the actual manufacture themselves)

...But then again I'm some Genocidal Anti-Christ for thinking of the idea for getting some recasts ...

 happygolucky wrote:
After reading about 9 pages and the 12 I must say I'm actually quite surprised that this thread has not been turned into a religious grounds pit, following on how people are talking about Morals and co..

Apart from one thing: God-fearing? really? (I hope this is a figure of speech), No, no one should ever have to live in fear of anything, let alone a being that may or may not exist, that is also morally wrong as that can also be considered supporting bullying.

Of course tell your kids what's right and wrong but tell them because they should feel wrong doing something, not because they will go to somewhere they don't want to against their will when they die.

A life lived in fear is a life half-spent.

(for the record I'm personally agnostic, and follow the rules of the flying spaghetti monster and Dr. Pepper).

Welcome to speaking with Americans. It makes more sense if you picture us as a giant insane asylum. :/

As for myself buying something? I really depends on the quality of the mini, as other have said and as I have witnessed myself I have seen a better quality from re-casters than the actual manufacture themselves, and to me it makes sense that if the manufacture is the one who is meant to be making the quality casts and not the other way around, then that's the manufacture not doing their job right. if the re-cast is cheaper then that's just an added bonus.

And that's another interesting pro-piracy/pro-recast argument I've often heard. Often times, the copy is actually a superior version of the original. I've seen some really bad Forge World stuff, but of the things I've been shown that people have said were recasts, the quality is often impressive. Similarly, all those unskippable previews on movies that tell you that you're a bad person who eats babies if you pirate movies don't exist on the pirated copies. You get the shame story told to you if you're the law abiding citizen, and you don't have to deal with the crap if you get the movie the other way. It's kind of insane when you think about it.

 daedalus wrote:
And that's another interesting pro-piracy/pro-recast argument I've often heard. Often times, the copy is actually a superior version of the original. I've seen some really bad Forge World stuff, but of the things I've been shown that people have said were recasts, the quality is often impressive. Similarly, all those unskippable previews on movies that tell you that you're a bad person who eats babies if you pirate movies don't exist on the pirated copies. You get the shame story told to you if you're the law abiding citizen, and you don't have to deal with the crap if you get the movie the other way. It's kind of insane when you think about it.

Have an exalt for the larf and for summing up my thoughts as well.

Well I am going to add in my two cents mainly because I am a anti counterfeit investigator, and I am going to hopefully be able to shed some light on counterfeit products.

1) Counterfeiting is not a victim less crime and I am not talking about the corporations who are the victims (well to be fair counterfeiting has actually forced some companies to close and as a result put people out of work), Its that most people do not want to see the real victims of counterfeiting because they believe that the corporations deserves what they get, well open your eyes and look for the real victims. Counterfeits are made by a slave labour force they also work in very bad conditions,counterfeits are made in small apartments or abandoned warehouse the workers have no protection or rights and sometimes are forced to work with very dangerous materials with no or little safety equipment, The myth about counterfeit products is that they are made by the same people from the same factory where the legit products are made. Counterfeiters are criminals not because counterfeiting is illegal but because 90% of all counterfeit operations are linked to major criminal organizations the money from counterfeiting is used to fund other criminal activity such as drugs, guns, prostitution including child, human trafficking and terrorism that's were your money is going to

2) Counterfeiters do not specialize if they make GW products they could also be making counterfeit cloths,medication,car parts,aircraft parts,electronics, make up, perfume, children toys, food ,military electronics (US military had a big problem with this a few years ago),Guns (Yes there was a few Police departments in the US that purchased counterfeit Glocks) and not to long ago a couple in Florida were arrested for selling counterfeit body armour I can imagine that not working to well in the field.

3) Counterfeit products are dangerous, because counterfeiters do not follow any regulations that legit companies have to, consumer products are in most cases highly regulated everything from the material used how they are made to where they are made is very specific for public safety. counterfeiters circumvent safety measures for profit this is why counterfeit chargers burn down houses or that counterfeit airbags explode and kill people, counterfeit clothing contains toxic dyes and materials, counterfeit perfume is made with human urine, and why people have died because they buy counterfeit medication that was packed with radioactive material, and the counterfeiters DO NOT CARE, so that nice Imperial Knight you have could very well be made out of toxic waste.

4) Prices, people complain about prices so they turn to re casters for cheaper products by supporting the counterfeiters your are actually part of the reason why GW raises their prices, you see most companies calculate the revenue lost by counterfeiters into their prices, so lets say GW losses 1 million dollars a year as a direct result of counterfeit products on the market so now GW wants to make up their lost revenue so what do they do, they take that 1 million dollar loss and increase the prices of their products so that they can recover that loss. So if you want GW to stop raising prices one way to do that is DO NOT SUPPORT THE COUNTERFEITERS.

I am saying this because everything I said comes from my experience in this field, but by all means you do not have to believe me but you can find a lot of this information with a simple Google search oh and the air bag thing can be found on You Tube it is pretty scary. So before you think "yeah another White Knight blah blah blah" do a little research.

Oh and in case people think I work for GW in any way I do not

I guess I didn't state whether or not I would personally buy recast in my previous post. Hmmm....

Well, I wouldn't have a problem buying recasts of out of production models, especially if they have no current replacement model (Squats, Wulfen, DOOMRIDER, etc). In that instance, GW is literally losing no money from the transaction. I am buying recasts of models that are only ever found on the secondhand market. Whether I buy recasts or not in that case, GW wouldn't see a dime either way. So there is no moral quandary there.

Would I buy a recast of a currently available GW model that I liked the look of? No, I don't think so. Not because I'm a better person than some of you guys or anything, its just that if I like the model enough I'll shell out the money for it. GW rarely makes a model that I like so badly that I will pay their extortionist prices, but it has happened (I'm just glad that none of the superheavies they make are good enough to make me want them). Generally, I will try to find a decent substitute model from a competitor to use instead of a GW one (I play with friends so this is a viable option for me; YMMV). Or I'll convert the heck out of something. Most of my jollies in 40K come from the creative aspects more than the game, anyway.

I will admit to not having any experience with FW, so I can't say if I would turn to recasts of their stuff because of rage at FW's poor quality or something.

All that said; I have downloaded stuff from torrent sites and whatnot. I don't try to rationalize it away as being justified or anything and I don't try to claim I'm smarter than anyone who paid $20 for a CD to get a single song they liked. It's just that money was very tight for me for a number of years (years I spent not buying *any* GW stuff at all) and torrents allowed me to maintain a minimum level of entertainment.

just make sure you actually support the company that makes the game you like to play, to the extent you can. at least have the decency to buy a legit copy of the rules if you want to play the game, GW may be the big bad evil guy for some reason, but they need cash to keep going, so throw them a bone every now an then since they did do the work.


paying 3rd parties cash for GW's product, IP, marketing, ect is all well and good for saving you cash, but dont kid yourself into thinking its not stealing.

this is why HMV and block buster do not exist, everyone pirated movies, so their business model failed.

recasters dont pay marketing, or have to invest money in things like rules, paying employees at box stores, ect.

pretty sad that some people think its ok to steal GW's IP, but bawk at stealing kromlech or warmahordes IP from recasters.

To be fair, your smart phone purchase wasn't a victimless crime either, but that doesn't stop you from buying the latest model.

Here's the thing: Everything you do has the potential to contribute money to the bad things happening. It's not like legitimate industries such as clothing, electronics, food, diamonds, lumber, rubber, gasoline don't have ties into human rights violations/slave labor/terrorism/puppy eating.

I'm a little numb to your argument, because even your name brand electronics are still killing factory workers for a pittance, and your jeans were sewn by someone living in poverty in Cambodia.

If I knew the opponent was buying large amounts of recasts of current products (from whatever company) no I probably would not want to play them

as has been mentioned this is promoting large scale counterfeit production which is never a good idea, it's also a real killer for smaller manufacturers who may be very marginal from month to month in terms of cashflow and while not all recasts will be a lost sale some will be and it could be the difference between the company staying open or not


a few picked up accidentally on ebay/trade no problem, it's a hazard of buying second hand by all means use rather than bin them, but don't try to resell them

home recasts of out of production stuff (whatever company) no problem, it does not matter to the original producer, it's not a commercial action (if a commercial producer wants to re-release an out of production mini they need to get a licence)

if it's a case of not being able to afford 'official stuff' and needing something cheaper I'm happy to let people play counts as with appropriate minis from cheaper manufacturers, or even (in the short term) coke can drop pods and kids toy titans

I just got as land raider on ebasy, turns out is all resin recast but very good quality one, just got a friend doing some touching up/spare parts that are badly cast for me, like a door etc :-)

Did not know it was recast, but hey, it is so I just have to deal with it.

So what, once painted you'll never be able to tell, and am I to be so moral as to bin 30 quid, no I'll enjoy it, fake or no :-)

If gw had more sense pricing I'd buy new but 15 quid less is a big difference when on low budgets.

It's weird for me. I proxy my entire army with pieces of paper to represent miniatures. I do, however buy the rules and codexes and I have bought several of their miniatures, so I'm not ripping off the entire game. Not the most recent codexes, but I still bought them off GW. Because I play alone, I need several armies to keep the hobby interesting for me, so I can't buy much models for 5 different armies.

If someone approached me and wanted to play with his or her recasts, I'd prioritize that someone's willing to play with me over the person is breaking the law in this regard. I'd feel guilty about it after, but I'd find that better than feeling lonely.

Davor wrote:
It's not a UK product anymore. All books are from China now. I believe I even read the minis are coming from China now, so nothing is really coming from UK now. Would like to be corrected or confirmed.

GW's minis are still made in the UK.

Forgeworld had some production in China for a while, but it's all supposedly in-house again now.

jhe90 wrote:
I just got as land raider on ebasy, turns out is all resin recast but very good quality one, just got a friend doing some touching up/spare parts that are badly cast for me, like a door etc :-)

Did not know it was recast, but hey, it is so I just have to deal with it.

So what, once painted you'll never be able to tell, and am I to be so moral as to bin 30 quid, no I'll enjoy it, fake or no :-)

If gw had more sense pricing I'd buy new but 15 quid less is a big difference when on low budgets.

To me, this is a much bigger issue.

Not that you bought a recast, it is that you did so unknowingly.

If I were to go on to a Chinese website and order a Warhound with two weapons for £150, I couldn't very well argue I didn't know what I was doing.

If I went on eBay, and paid something approaching the market rate for a second hand model of it's type, and that turns out to be a recast? That's more of an issue.

There's one thing debating the legality of doing it, which will vary from territory to territory, hell, even the morality of recasting will vary culture to culture, but I'm fairly sure lying and deceiving in the clear cut sense of selling something as one thing when it is another is universally frowned upon.

Alpha 1 wrote:


2) Counterfeiters do not specialize if they make GW products they could also be making counterfeit cloths,medication,car parts,aircraft parts,electronics, make up, perfume, children toys, food ,military electronics

Bear in mind, for those who like to 'Stick it to GW' that the recasters in question, even if they aren't producing dodgy medication or baby food, will probably be counterfieting Kromlech stuff.

Your counterfeiter isn't sticking it to The Man. He is THe Man.

 azreal13 wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
I just got as land raider on ebasy, turns out is all resin recast but very good quality one, just got a friend doing some touching up/spare parts that are badly cast for me, like a door etc :-)

Did not know it was recast, but hey, it is so I just have to deal with it.

So what, once painted you'll never be able to tell, and am I to be so moral as to bin 30 quid, no I'll enjoy it, fake or no :-)

If gw had more sense pricing I'd buy new but 15 quid less is a big difference when on low budgets.

To me, this is a much bigger issue.

Not that you bought a recast, it is that you did so unknowingly.

If I were to go on to a Chinese website and order a Warhound with two weapons for £150, I couldn't very well argue I didn't know what I was doing.

If I went on eBay, and paid something approaching the market rate for a second hand model of it's type, and that turns out to be a recast? That's more of an issue.

There's one thing debating the legality of doing it, which will vary from territory to territory, hell, even the morality of recasting will vary culture to culture, but I'm fairly sure lying and deceiving in the clear cut sense of selling something as one thing when it is another is universally frowned upon.

True, not great but me and friend now making best of a bad lot, he found a old whirlwind kit, plastic legal don,t worry! so with some work its becoming a semi scratch built Helios model.

Might as well make lemonade :-)

 happygolucky wrote:
After reading about 9 pages and the 12 I must say I'm actually quite surprised that this thread has not been turned into a religious grounds pit, following on how people are talking about Morals and co..

Apart from one thing: God-fearing? really? (I hope this is a figure of speech), No, no one should ever have to live in fear of anything, let alone a being that may or may not exist, that is also morally wrong as that can also be considered supporting bullying.

Of course tell your kids what's right and wrong but tell them because they should feel wrong doing something, not because they will go to somewhere they don't want to against their will when they die.

A life lived in fear is a life half-spent.

(for the record I'm personally agnostic, and follow the rules of the flying spaghetti monster and Dr. Pepper).

Since I'm being hammered on a few things allow me to explain.

God-fearing is a figure of speech in the US. While it certainly did have its roots in fearing the god of Old Testament of the bible, it now more means to be above board, to show humility, be humble and honest in dealings with others and to exercise a strong moral and ethical compass upon which long ter fundamental life decisions can be firmly grounded.

And since many of you have decided to jump on that, please allow me to furth clarify:
Whether my daughter grows up catholic like I did, baptist like my wife, or whatever, I am less concerned about what faith she decides to be apart from outside of occultist convents or anything that I would, or even a reasonable person would deem dangerous or unhealthy, than I am making sure she has a solid foundation with which to build the ability to make solid life decisions off of.

She is free to choose her own path. If it's the same as her fathers, do be it, if it's different, that's her decision. If I have done my job right, and have raised an adult, and not a child, she will be a good person, and as a parent, when I leave this world, that is my ultimate goal.

Does it make me draconian, sure, it probably does. It is also the best way I know how to ensure she is likely to learn valuable life lessons. Additionally, families that are involved in community and church are more likely to stay together through common moral and ethical structures. I'm on board with this. My daughter growing up with her mom and her dad in the same is stupid important to me.

Additionally, I also want to add that fear, a little bit is a good thing. YOLO is something for people to say when they try a strange new food. It's not a tag line for how to live. I fear driving 130MPH down a two lane road at night. I fear it because I do not want unnecessary bodily harm. It's not that I'm a pussy, or a weakling, I just don't want to die. I fear being shot at. Not so much that it paralyses me and prevents me from acting, but because I know what happens if I get hit. As such, I don't play with guns or stand in the middle if a firefight between the police and the proverbial robbers. I fear for my daughters well being, which is why I don't do stupid things with her like throw her in the middle if a lake and hope she "learns to swim"

A life dominated by fear is a bad thing, I agree. But people who "ignore fear" are either executing a Mission, or are just stupid. We have fear so we don't die to dumb things like car wrecks at 130 on a Rainey black road in the middle of Missouri. We can mitigate the fear we feel with precaution (like bungee jumping or para jumping) and know that the fear we feel is healthy, but there are reasonable precautions taken to endure the risk is minimized. unmitigated fear, when no such logical precaution is perceived, or better, the choice to ignore that fear all for the sake of yelling YOLO while acting like an idiot is very VERY dangerous.

Now, back to topic...

Off topic. I apologize.

I like 40K.

I don't like Games Workshop.

I don't really care where your models came from. Recasts or third-party doesn't matter to me, so long as I can easily tell what sort of units they're supposed to be.

Things would probably be much better for 40K if GW went out of business and was forced to sell the IP to another company.

I think the people arguing against Sc077y dont have kids... You raise your kids in the best way YOU think is best for them. They are his kids and I think what he is trying to do with them is great. If you dont raise your kids to have the best chances in life then you have failed as a parent. He thinks having morals like he does and values such as his is the most beneficial path for his daughter, so thats the path he will try lead her on.

So keep this thread on topic and dont bash on a father who is leading by example to try give his daughter the best start he can in life.

I'm not arguing against him. I'm trying to understand.

At any rate, it's off topic. I'll drop it.

 daedalus wrote:
I'm not arguing against him. I'm trying to understand.

At any rate, it's off topic. I'll drop it.

Yea thats true, just drop him a PM or something haha.

I think the problem with recasts is that there are too many outcomes involved all of which are different levels of badness? So if I got a recast but would have got a GW product then thats the recats taking money. But if I only got a recast and never intended to buy the real thing then TECHNICALLY nobody lost money ish. So its a lot more justifiable to do rather than physically taking something away from someone.

For example, if I steal a can of food from the local Pak'n'Save they have to sell 10 more to make up for that 1 can stolen. But If I buy a recast, GW is not at a direct loss etc

I always have the following code for whether or not piracy (in this case recasting) can be justified:
A) You must like the product. If you download something and then throw it away after trying for 5 minutes, I don't think it's wrong. Not so much of a deal for recasting.
B) You must be able to get the product. If a product is unavailable in your country, or shipping rates are exorbitant (see C), it's completely understandable to turn to cheaper alternatives.
C) You must be able to afford the product. If you are for example a poor student with barely any money to spare, you wouldn't buy the original.

Only when these three apply do I find purchasing recasts to be immoral, as only in this case the company misses out on money.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Many people, including me, have said they have a problem with the idea of recasts - perhaps because it tends to encourage criminal behaviour, IP theft

No matter how often you repeat that, it's not going to be true. This seriously appears to be your argument, no? Say it's theft, be explained why it's not theft based on court precedent and the idea that words have actual meanings, dismiss those precedents as as "old" - as if that somehow negates their accuracy as settled law! - and then go back to repeating that IP infringement is theft, over and over again.

I gotta be honest, it's a pretty intellectually disingenuous way of arguing.

Brother Michael wrote:
I always have the following code for whether or not piracy (in this case recasting) can be justified:
A) You must like the product. If you download something and then throw it away after trying for 5 minutes, I don't think it's wrong. Not so much of a deal for recasting.

Wrong is still wrong though. That being said, I see it more like going to the library, or to the store, looking at their copy and if you like it, you buy it. If you don't, you don't buy it and don't use what you have downloaded.

B) You must be able to get the product. If a product is unavailable in your country, or shipping rates are exorbitant (see C), it's completely understandable to turn to cheaper alternatives.

Well if it's not available in your country then there is no lost sale. So is this wrong then? Is it breaking any laws since there is no sale to begin with in that country. Good point. Don't agree with the excuse of exorbitant shipping prices as see C

C) You must be able to afford the product. If you are for example a poor student with barely any money to spare, you wouldn't buy the original.

Only when these three apply do I find purchasing recasts to be immoral, as only in this case the company misses out on money.

Well if you can't afford it, you just have to go without then. Otherwise we are all just making excuses because we know it's wrong but trying to justify it. That being said, haven't we all bought something on the black market?

Now here is a question. A lot of excuses for not having recasts, is GW doesn't get any money. How is this any different from buying 2nd hand or used? GW is not getting any money from those sales, so is that immoral then? It's legal but just as immoral as recasts are because GW is not getting the money they could have had from a sale.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Alpha 1 wrote:


2) Counterfeiters do not specialize if they make GW products they could also be making counterfeit cloths,medication,car parts,aircraft parts,electronics, make up, perfume, children toys, food ,military electronics

Bear in mind, for those who like to 'Stick it to GW' that the recasters in question, even if they aren't producing dodgy medication or baby food, will probably be counterfieting Kromlech stuff.

Your counterfeiter isn't sticking it to The Man. He is THe Man.

Yeah....

No.

Spend five minutes browsing any of the multiple web locations we aren't allowed to mention by name (which in many cases are also chock full of legitimate product for substantially less than their UK RRP, with free shipping) and it is GW, GW, GW. Maybe the occasional Andrea or similar large collector's piece which, again, is vulnerable due to a high mark up.

If you were to find any of the smaller third party models, I'd suggest that comes down to the recaster being a wargamer and doing a bit on the side, and liking the model himself.

If you were to find any..

The only reason I wouldn't, regardless of game, is if it was genuinely difficult to tell what things were supposed to be. I have the same policy for "official" models though.

Sc077y wrote:
*snip*

First off all you needed to say that it was a figure of speech, I am not known for old sayings that are used outside of the UK, so I can understand after that.

Secondly in apologise if I seemed insulting, I did not intend to be.

However my reasons why as are included from your last paragraph about fear. Yes it is good to have some fear but the fear you are talking about is instinctual fear, fear from the gut in order to survive and there is nothing wrong with that, its how we all live.

However there are individuals that use topics such as religion or power as a means to inflict fear upon others for their own gain which is abusive and I find wrong, a good example of individuals who abuse fear is the Kim-Un-whatever he's called in North Korea making his half of the country afraid of him for his own gain, similarly there will be individuals who will make others scared of them by using a religion as scare tactics, which I find wrong. That is extremism and bullying and should not be tolerated imo.

Anyho you are right, back to topic.

When looking at it all together it does seem that the copyright laws are in a convoluted pile because there are so many ways that each country views upon them, so it really has to be how the individual sees it imo.. My opinion on buying recasts is that it has to look superior in quality, not the same, not less, superior Otherwise I may as well just buy it from the Manufacturers, afterall is Buying from Ebay secondhand minis wrong? GW would not be getting my cash then, or secondhand of a friend? is that wrong too because GW is not getting my cash then as well?

Like I say I do and have bought shed tons off GW as in most of my product is original with only a few bits "legally" secondhand from friends looking to get some money and currently I have a Gorkanought on order to come in on Friday or Saturday so its not like I'm ripping them off, throwing a hippy towel on and screaming "Stick it to the man", to me its just if I fond a superior product then it just shows my that the manufacture has not done their job right as they are the ones that are supposed to give the highest quality for their product.

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I'd be okay with someone recasting their own models, but I think buying recasts from a third party is wrong. It's bad for the industry and bad for people conducting business in general.

Like if I needed a few hundred clan rats it would be smart to buy a single box and then make resin copies of the sprues and use those to bulk out my force. That's respecting their intellectual property.

Selling those copies would be illegal. Infringing on intellectual property isn't as bad as theft. Its not as bad as selling stolen property or buying stolen property.

^^^This.^^^

I don't have a problem with copying things for my own use but I wouldn't even give them to someone, or accept copied items from anyone else.

If I were playing against someone who thought it important I knew where their army came from, I'd be thinking,
"Why is he boasting about breaking copyright law? Am I supposed to show him respect for it? What other Bad Things does he do? Is there a policeman's head in his duffel bag?"

 Chrissy_J wrote:

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I'd be okay with someone recasting their own models, but I think buying recasts from a third party is wrong. It's bad for the industry and bad for people conducting business in general.

Like if I needed a few hundred clan rats it would be smart to buy a single box and then make resin copies of the sprues and use those to bulk out my force. That's respecting their intellectual property.

Selling those copies would be illegal. Infringing on intellectual property isn't as bad as theft. Its not as bad as selling stolen property or buying stolen property.

^^^This.^^^

I don't have a problem with copying things for my own use but I wouldn't even give them to someone, or accept copied items from anyone else.

If I were playing against someone who thought it important I knew where their army came from, I'd be thinking,
"Why is he boasting about breaking copyright law? Am I supposed to show him respect for it? What other Bad Things does he do? Is there a policeman's head in his duffel bag?"

Whats the difference between recasting yourself and paying someone else to recast?

Is it ok to break the law as long as you do it yourself and not pay someone else to do it or something? I really cant a see a difference there.

Just wondering.