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Maximus Bitch wrote:
This is the HAL from Cyberdine Japan

Spoiler:

It detects muscle electrical impulses under the skin and responds accordingly. In this case, is the black carapace of a Space Marine really required?

There is a difference between very crude attempts to respond to neural impulses and being able to directly connect to them.

A marine isn't sending neural impulses along his body and the armor is just reacting to them, he's sending the impulses directly to the armor itself. His armor is just as in tune with his nervous system as his real muscles.

What they've made in Japan is really a very crude attempt at replication. We're still a very long way away from having real mind-machine interfaces.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Inquisitorial power armor is also less bulky, though most martial inquisitors have far more advanced armor than Marines or Sisters do.

What book says this, by the way?

Says and says - an Inquisitor is likely to have a custom job just for him, with all the best stuff. Straight from the AdMech, not a standard Astartes armor with the gauntlet or helmet this or that hero wore because the TechMarines restored it and it looks cool. It's like a military prototype vs the stuff "regular" special forces use. Most likely less reliable on account of it being one-of-a-kind, but then the Inquisitor rarely has to survive alone in a warzone for months or years.

You might actually say the Sisters have the easiest PA to keep working. They do get the best the Ecclesiarchy can buy, and it's one of the richest organisations in the Imperium. Their armor in significantly less bulky than the Space Marine versions, lacking some advanced features but providing the same immediate physical protection. And there's only one version. No supply problems, all the armor plates, actuators and relays in the supply shipment can be used to repair any suit.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Inquisitorial power armor is also less bulky, though most martial inquisitors have far more advanced armor than Marines or Sisters do.

What book says this, by the way?

A number of novels have advanced versions of power armour - what I would term Artifcer Armour (or better)

Amberleys go to suit has a heavy bolter / powerfist as standard - "The lorry was pushed aside by something roughtly human sized, but completely encased in finely wrought metal, from which the sun struck the unmistakable refulgence of gold. Smaller than the suits worn by one of the Astartes, but power armour nevertheless, and even at this distance it had been clearly crafted by a master artificer whose skill would certainly have impressed Tobamoire(*)" (*Armourer of the Reclaimers Chapter)

Amberely also mentions that being inside power armour is not all cool recycled air but tainted with the lingering bouquet of Emperor knows how many centuries of old sweat and flatulence.

Every single book about Inquisitors. An Inquisitor has more political power than space marines, aside from maybe the chapter masters of the most famous and influential chapters such as ultramarines or space wolves. The ones that do have a mind for war have the pull and power to equip themselves with the best tech, including xenotech and warptech and archaeotech.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Inquisitorial power armor is also less bulky, though most martial inquisitors have far more advanced armor than Marines or Sisters do.

What book says this, by the way?

A number of novels have advanced versions of power armour - what I would term Artifcer Armour (or better)

Amberleys go to suit has a heavy bolter / powerfist as standard - "The lorry was pushed aside by something roughtly human sized, but completely encased in finely wrought metal, from which the sun struck the unmistakable refulgence of gold. Smaller than the suits worn by one of the Astartes, but power armour nevertheless, and even at this distance it had been clearly crafted by a master artificer whose skill would certainly have impressed Tobamoire(*)" (*Armourer of the Reclaimers Chapter)

Amberely also mentions that being inside power armour is not all cool recycled air but tainted with the lingering bouquet of Emperor knows how many centuries of old sweat and flatulence.

which implies her suit is not something hand crafted for her

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Inquisitorial power armor is also less bulky, though most martial inquisitors have far more advanced armor than Marines or Sisters do.

What book says this, by the way?

A number of novels have advanced versions of power armour - what I would term Artifcer Armour (or better)

Amberleys go to suit has a heavy bolter / powerfist as standard - "The lorry was pushed aside by something roughtly human sized, but completely encased in finely wrought metal, from which the sun struck the unmistakable refulgence of gold. Smaller than the suits worn by one of the Astartes, but power armour nevertheless, and even at this distance it had been clearly crafted by a master artificer whose skill would certainly have impressed Tobamoire(*)" (*Armourer of the Reclaimers Chapter)

Amberely also mentions that being inside power armour is not all cool recycled air but tainted with the lingering bouquet of Emperor knows how many centuries of old sweat and flatulence.

which implies her suit is not something hand crafted for her

So? Not sure why that matters? Its clear from the novel (and others) that the armour is extremely powerful and flexible and is equipped with an unusual heavy bolter / powerfist combo - it is maintained and repaired by her own tech priest. She is quick enough in it to dodge a purestrain genestealer strike.

Anything about this say "sub standard civilian power armour?"

 Melissia wrote:
Every single book about Inquisitors. An Inquisitor has more political power than space marines, aside from maybe the chapter masters of the most famous and influential chapters such as ultramarines or space wolves. The ones that do have a mind for war have the pull and power to equip themselves with the best tech, including xenotech and warptech and archaeotech.

No but like, what specific book(s)?

Is this said in any of the Dark Heresy books for example? Or in Codex: Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters?

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Inquisitorial power armor is also less bulky, though most martial inquisitors have far more advanced armor than Marines or Sisters do.

What book says this, by the way?

A number of novels have advanced versions of power armour - what I would term Artifcer Armour (or better)

Amberleys go to suit has a heavy bolter / powerfist as standard - "The lorry was pushed aside by something roughtly human sized, but completely encased in finely wrought metal, from which the sun struck the unmistakable refulgence of gold. Smaller than the suits worn by one of the Astartes, but power armour nevertheless, and even at this distance it had been clearly crafted by a master artificer whose skill would certainly have impressed Tobamoire(*)" (*Armourer of the Reclaimers Chapter)

Amberely also mentions that being inside power armour is not all cool recycled air but tainted with the lingering bouquet of Emperor knows how many centuries of old sweat and flatulence.

which implies her suit is not something hand crafted for her

So? Not sure why that matters? Its clear from the novel (and others) that the armour is extremely powerful and flexible and is equipped with an unusual heavy bolter / powerfist combo - it is maintained and repaired by her own tech priest. She is quick enough in it to dodge a purestrain genestealer strike.

Anything about this say "sub standard civilian power armour?"

It was customized for her no doubt. When someone inherits an ancient, ultra-powerful set of power armor, they don't just put it up as a mantlepiece if it doesn't fit

Is this said in any of the Dark Heresy books for example? Or in Codex: Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters?

According to DH, only Space Marines wear real powered armor, and everyone else gets stuck with what is basically suped-up Carapace.

Of course, in DH, a boltgun is less impressive than certain lasweapons, and regular Guardsmen can tank lascannon rounds.

In regards to Sisters of Battle and the Black Carapace:

Game Stats =/= Fluff

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
In regards to Sisters of Battle and the Black Carapace:

Game Stats =/= Fluff

Sisters of Battle and the Black Carapace don't have any fluff/gameplay discrepancies. Their power armour is exactly as protective as Astartes power armour, but despite their super elite training, they're only I3 because their power armour slows them down slightly because they don't have the Carapace. I fail to see the discrepancy.

People saying Sisters have a 3+ and Marines have a 3+ so the BC is unnecessary.

Thats just abstract game mechanics not showing the fluff properly.


If we got to, say, RPG level of detail things would be different.

PA for normal humans would give 3+ armor, a speed and a Str boost.

PA for Marines would give them a boost to perception, agility, and reflexes as well because the armor is literally part of his body because of the carapace. He isn't wearing it so much as having it as part and parcel of his body. Marines are faster and stronger in their armor than when out of it.

A marine out of armor would be very fast, a marine in armor would be even faster.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
People saying Sisters have a 3+ and Marines have a 3+ so the BC is unnecessary.

That's more a misunderstanding of what the Black Carapace does than anything else. The Black Carapace has no effect on how much protection the armour gives.

What Templar says is ultimately accurate, although I would debate the speed boost for normal humans. PA for normal humans and Marines is a 3+ save and a strength boost, certainly. But the strength boost for the Marine is significantly greater, and comes with a host of other benefits.

 Psienesis wrote:

According to DH, only Space Marines wear real powered armor, and everyone else gets stuck with what is basically suped-up Carapace.

Of course, in DH, a boltgun is less impressive than certain lasweapons, and regular Guardsmen can tank lascannon rounds.

That's nice and all, but I'd still like to know the source on Inquisitorial powered armour.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
People saying Sisters have a 3+ and Marines have a 3+ so the BC is unnecessary.

Why the hell would they say that? The Black Carapace doesn't add protection. It adds a mental link to the armor.

So Melissia, why do you refuse to back up your claims with sources?

I'm not even saying you're wrong. Just give me the source so that I may read it.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
So Melissia, why do you refuse to back up your claims with sources?

I'm not even saying you're wrong. Just give me the source so that I may read it.

Duty Calls By Sandy Mitchel, official BL publication - as I have noted in a few highlights, the Power Armour that Amberely (an Inquisitor) uses is incredably formidableand superior to standard Astartes armour in terms of its armament, agility and protection (and asthetics)

The current Inquisiton Codex has depecitions of Inquisitors in highly eloborate power armour - see for example the images that accompany the basic texts on each Ordo?

The boosts to Perception and such are present in most forms of PA. It's an aspect of the helmet and other systems within the armor.

I'd have to double-check Blood of Martyrs, but I believe that the SOB PA presented there is, in many ways, superior to the PA that Space Marines get, as SM PA often has non-functional or missing systems, as their armor is old, and handed down from Marine to Marine.

That's certainly true compared to the CSM PA from Black Crusade.

Blood of Martyrs Sororitas Power Armour - AP7 (8 on body) +10 Strength, +5BS (if issued with a helmet), rebreather, comm-link, heavy weapons treated as braced.

Deathwatch Astartes Power Armour - AP8 (10 on body), +20 Strength, Auto-Senses, Osmotic Gill, Bio-Monitor and Injectors, Vox Link, Magnetized Boot Soles, Nutrient Recycling, Recoil Suppression, Giant Among Men (however, the Black Carapace provides sufficient 'grace' with using the armour that enemies don't get a bonus to hit a Marine), Poor Manual Dexterity.

Certainly would seem that Astartes Power Armour, described as 'the pinnacle of power armour technology' (Deathwatch pg160) has one or two advantages over Sororitas Power Armour and the Black Carapace directly aids a Marine in negating what would otherwise be a distinct disadvantage.

as for inqusitors having access to power armor, all one has to look at are the codexes with inqusitors. hell ordos Malleus inqusitors can wear TERMY armor.

re amberly's armor, truthfully I always just interpreted it as stormbolter (perhaps an astarties model), mostly because a heavy bolter would be so over sized on a human forearm it just wouldn't work. thing to remember about the Cain series is they're doubly unreliable due to being narrarated by the actual character.

A heavy bolter would be over-sized on an Astartes' arm.

 Psienesis wrote:
A heavy bolter would be over-sized on an Astartes' arm.

Truth. It's a heavy weapon for a reason.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Duty Calls By Sandy Mitchel, official BL publication - as I have noted in a few highlights, the Power Armour that Amberely (an Inquisitor) uses is incredably formidableand superior to standard Astartes armour in terms of its armament, agility and protection (and asthetics)

The current Inquisiton Codex has depecitions of Inquisitors in highly eloborate power armour - see for example the images that accompany the basic texts on each Ordo?

Thank you for providing something resembling a source. Some people could learn from your example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The boosts to Perception and such are present in most forms of PA. It's an aspect of the helmet and other systems within the armor.

I'd have to double-check Blood of Martyrs, but I believe that the SOB PA presented there is, in many ways, superior to the PA that Space Marines get, as SM PA often has non-functional or missing systems, as their armor is old, and handed down from Marine to Marine.

That's certainly true compared to the CSM PA from Black Crusade.

I am pretty sure that is only true of Astartes Powered Armour in Black Crusade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for inqusitors having access to power armor

No one thinks inquisitors can't wear powered armour. I wanted to know what said their suits were better than a Space Marines'.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

No one thinks inquisitors can't wear powered armour. I wanted to know what said their suits were better than a Space Marines'.

Some probably aren't, but seeing as they're custom jobs some may be.

An inquisitor of sufficient age and rank will have access to resources beyond anything even the richest First Founding Chapters can amass. His personal PA suit isn't going to be a recycled relic, it will be made from the best materials by the best artificers the AdMech can spare. It might not be quite what Commander Dante or Marneus Calgar wear, but those guys also wear the best their entire Chapter can bring forth.

I am guessing that there are ports in the SM (that's canon) and the ports are more sensitive/react faster to signals than the pads on the legs. Still cool though. This is probably how SoB use power armor.

BrianDavion wrote:
as for inqusitors having access to power armor, all one has to look at are the codexes with inqusitors. hell ordos Malleus inqusitors can wear TERMY armor.

re amberly's armor, truthfully I always just interpreted it as stormbolter (perhaps an astarties model), mostly because a heavy bolter would be so over sized on a human forearm it just wouldn't work. thing to remember about the Cain series is they're doubly unreliable due to being narrarated by the actual character.

I interpreted it as a storm bolter as well, because a storm bolter would make sense. A heavy bolter might work on the arm of a suit of terminator armor (though the shoulder would be better), but not regular power armor which was just a little bit larger than human.

Still the thing is, that was an immensely agile, durable, and powerful set of power armor. The example of Inquisitorial acolytes' power armor in Dark Heresy: Ascension is also quite advanced, having Astartes-PA level protection and strength-enhancement without being as bulky as SM armor is, and that's without going in to the custom-designed suits that the Ascension rulebook describes actual Inquisitors using.

Not all Inquisitors are martial, so it's not like every single one of them has one, mind you. But the ones that do have a mind for war are going to equip themselves superbly for it. They have the political power to condemn worlds to exterminatus and have Space Marine chapters wiped out, getting a fancy suit of power armor is child's play compared to either of those

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for inqusitors having access to power armor, all one has to look at are the codexes with inqusitors. hell ordos Malleus inqusitors can wear TERMY armor.

re amberly's armor, truthfully I always just interpreted it as stormbolter (perhaps an astarties model), mostly because a heavy bolter would be so over sized on a human forearm it just wouldn't work. thing to remember about the Cain series is they're doubly unreliable due to being narrarated by the actual character.

I interpreted it as a storm bolter as well, because a storm bolter would make sense. A heavy bolter might work on the arm of a suit of terminator armor (though the shoulder would be better), but not regular power armor which was just a little bit larger than human.

Still the thing is, that was an immensely agile, durable, and powerful set of power armor. The example of Inquisitorial acolytes' power armor in Dark Heresy: Ascension is also quite advanced, having Astartes-PA level protection and strength-enhancement without being as bulky as SM armor is, and that's without going in to the custom-designed suits that the Ascension rulebook describes actual Inquisitors using.

Not all Inquisitors are martial, so it's not like every single one of them has one, mind you. But the ones that do have a mind for war are going to equip themselves superbly for it. They have the political power to condemn worlds to exterminatus and have Space Marine chapters wiped out, getting a fancy suit of power armor is child's play compared to either of those

I belive it, and codex Grey Knights/inqusition has examples of inqusitioners wearing every type of power armor out there. Cortez even wears artifacer armor