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Orks have been lobbing Rokks at reinforced objectives since third edition. :p

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Orks have been lobbing Rokks at reinforced objectives since third edition. :p

Yea, but now they're getting really good at it.

Orks have been lobbing Rokks at reinforced objectives since third edition. :p

Oh, it wasn't your standard Rokk. The Orks harnessed a passing comet and after some setbacks then rammed one of their cruisers into it to bring it down into the Transformofortress.
The timing is what amused me; basically, the Imperial forces are like "HaHA! We have an -unexpected even to us- GIANT TRANSFORMING FORTRESS MOUNTAIN!" and 10 minutes later the Orks drop a comet onto it.

There's also a side story in the book about some freeblade knight who has daddy issues.

Mortarion getting a tattoo on his heart. A daemon primarch should not be so easily defeated. I like the GK but that was just bull.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

It goes both ways. The less sphesshul you make Pius, the less reason he has to be on Horus’ flagship of doom and destruction. Teleporting rank and file guardsmen tasked with storming chaos infested ships have never been a thing and never will be.

With Pius you have two options. Either leave him out of the story entirely, or give him a reason to be there. BL chose the latter option. That’s just how things are. Accept it and move on with your life.

They could've said that he was part of the Emperor's massive boarding party. Or that he was a slave aboard the ship.

That would've been a lot better than saying, "HES A TIMELORD CUZ I WATCHED DR WHO BEFOROE I SAT DOWN TO TRY AND WROTED THE HORFUS HORSY".

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

It goes both ways. The less sphesshul you make Pius, the less reason he has to be on Horus’ flagship of doom and destruction. Teleporting rank and file guardsmen tasked with storming chaos infested ships have never been a thing and never will be.

With Pius you have two options. Either leave him out of the story entirely, or give him a reason to be there. BL chose the latter option. That’s just how things are. Accept it and move on with your life.

Or... he was actually a Naval Armsman, who do (in 40k at least) regularly get transported aboard chaos infested ships to try and scuttle them. :p

I know, I know, saying he was a Time Lord is one thing, but how dare I suggest he was Navy instead of Army?!

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

It goes both ways. The less sphesshul you make Pius, the less reason he has to be on Horus’ flagship of doom and destruction. Teleporting rank and file guardsmen tasked with storming chaos infested ships have never been a thing and never will be.

With Pius you have two options. Either leave him out of the story entirely, or give him a reason to be there. BL chose the latter option. That’s just how things are. Accept it and move on with your life.

Or... he was actually a Naval Armsman, who do (in 40k at least) regularly get transported aboard chaos infested ships to try and scuttle them. :p

I know, I know, saying he was a Time Lord is one thing, but how dare I suggest he was Navy instead of Army?!

Well, it was all Army then, there wasn't a separate Navy from the IG yet, so they could still call him Army and it would fly.

as a side note, I didn't realize they'd done this to Olanius...I'm so glad I stopped spending money on HH books, that's just awful.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

It goes both ways. The less sphesshul you make Pius, the less reason he has to be on Horus’ flagship of doom and destruction. Teleporting rank and file guardsmen tasked with storming chaos infested ships have never been a thing and never will be.

With Pius you have two options. Either leave him out of the story entirely, or give him a reason to be there. BL chose the latter option. That’s just how things are. Accept it and move on with your life.

Or... he was actually a Naval Armsman, who do (in 40k at least) regularly get transported aboard chaos infested ships to try and scuttle them. :p

I know, I know, saying he was a Time Lord is one thing, but how dare I suggest he was Navy instead of Army?!

Well, it was all Army then, there wasn't a separate Navy from the IG yet, so they could still call him Army and it would fly.

as a side note, I didn't realize they'd done this to Olanius...I'm so glad I stopped spending money on HH books, that's just awful.

It was where I drew the line. It showed that the authors didn't have even the remotest understanding of the source material.

Hell, there wasn't even very much source material. Just a few pages of fluff. They could've added a ton of detail without contradicting any of it. Instead, they decided to puke all over what little original fluff there was.

 LoneLictor wrote:
They could've said that he was part of the Emperor's massive boarding party.

Massive boarding party? No such thing haven ever been mentioned. It was always been just the Emperor, his two Primarch sons and their respective soldiers. They were a small cadre of highly elite soldiers taking on the unstoppable beast.

Either you stay faithful to the story based on that old throwaway line about Pius, or you make something new up. You can’t have it both ways.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Or that he was a slave aboard the ship.

If he was a slave to Horus, wouldn’t that mean he had a personal attachment and an obligation to take a stand against Horus?

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Pius being a slave to Horus would go against the original point wouldn’t it? You’re beginning to contradict yourself.

 LoneLictor wrote:
That would've been a lot better than saying, "HES A TIMELORD CUZ I WATCHED DR WHO BEFOROE I SAT DOWN TO TRY AND WROTED THE HORFUS HORSY".

There simply is no pleasing you people. Go on. Cling on to your fallen idol. Stay salty if that is what you wish for.


The original fluff about Pius was written on the backside of boxes with fragging toy soldiers in them. That was it! There is no holy bible about Pius. All there was about him is an obscure and massively overhyped footnote…

Either you stay faithful to the story based on that old throwaway line about Pius, or you make something new up. You can’t have it both ways.

Because it wasn't originally on Horus' flagship, originally it was in the main palace on the Planet itself that they invaded, he was there then.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
They could've said that he was part of the Emperor's massive boarding party.

Massive boarding party? No such thing haven ever been mentioned. It was always been just the Emperor, his two Primarch sons and their respective soldiers. They were a small cadre of highly elite soldiers taking on the unstoppable beast.

Either you stay faithful to the story based on that old throwaway line about Pius, or you make something new up. You can’t have it both ways.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Or that he was a slave aboard the ship.

If he was a slave to Horus, wouldn’t that mean he had a personal attachment and an obligation to take a stand against Horus?

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Pius being a slave to Horus would go against the original point wouldn’t it? You’re beginning to contradict yourself.

 LoneLictor wrote:
That would've been a lot better than saying, "HES A TIMELORD CUZ I WATCHED DR WHO BEFOROE I SAT DOWN TO TRY AND WROTED THE HORFUS HORSY".

There simply is no pleasing you people. Go on. Cling on to your fallen idol. Stay salty if that is what you wish for.

Um, actually...the Emperor teleported onto Horus' ship with 10,000 dudes. There's a ton of fluff specifically describing the final assault on the Imperial Palace with ten thousand marines and guardsmen looking to the Emperor as Chaos forces are literally hitting the Eternity Gate with a battering ram. He suffers an emotional crisis, thinking that all is lost, when he detects Horus has let the shields down. He basically gives the signal and the palace stewards teleport all of them onto Horus' battle barge. But all of them get scattered throughout the ship, and there's basically a massive firefight all over the place. I always thought Pius was just one of the guys in the hall during that last stand who got teleported with everyone else.

 TheSilo wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
They could've said that he was part of the Emperor's massive boarding party.

Massive boarding party? No such thing haven ever been mentioned. It was always been just the Emperor, his two Primarch sons and their respective soldiers. They were a small cadre of highly elite soldiers taking on the unstoppable beast.

Either you stay faithful to the story based on that old throwaway line about Pius, or you make something new up. You can’t have it both ways.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Or that he was a slave aboard the ship.

If he was a slave to Horus, wouldn’t that mean he had a personal attachment and an obligation to take a stand against Horus?

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Pius being a slave to Horus would go against the original point wouldn’t it? You’re beginning to contradict yourself.

 LoneLictor wrote:
That would've been a lot better than saying, "HES A TIMELORD CUZ I WATCHED DR WHO BEFOROE I SAT DOWN TO TRY AND WROTED THE HORFUS HORSY".

There simply is no pleasing you people. Go on. Cling on to your fallen idol. Stay salty if that is what you wish for.

Um, actually...the Emperor teleported onto Horus' ship with 10,000 dudes. There's a ton of fluff specifically describing the final assault on the Imperial Palace with ten thousand marines and guardsmen looking to the Emperor as Chaos forces are literally hitting the Eternity Gate with a battering ram. He suffers an emotional crisis, thinking that all is lost, when he detects Horus has let the shields down. He basically gives the signal and the palace stewards teleport all of them onto Horus' battle barge. But all of them get scattered throughout the ship, and there's basically a massive firefight all over the place. I always thought Pius was just one of the guys in the hall during that last stand who got teleported with everyone else.

Wow the versions of the horus heresy are many, thats a new one.

That version does indeed seem very dubious. I think a source is in order.

"The Emperor saw this opportunity and teleported to the Warmaster's battle barge with two of his Primarchs, Terminator-armoured marines of their Legions, and a number of Custodes." - Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy#.U8Wg441dXTB)

"Lowering the shields of his flagship as a lure, the Emperor, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius, and a force of Imperial Fists teleport aboard the flagship to confront him." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_Heresy#Conflict_and_resolution)

"The Emperor of Mankind rose to the challenge, leading members of His elite personal guard, the Legio Custodes, the Primarchs Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn, and several companies of Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Veteran Space Marines in the assault and teleported aboard the Vengeful Spirit." - 40k Wikia (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy)

In every case he's teleporting with a large contingent of dudes. I got in with 3rd edition, so some of the details have clearly changed from time to time. I distinctly remember the passage describing the Emperor's thoughts as Chaos is banging on the door, I'm pretty sure it was a piece in an old White Dwarf from like 2002-2004 (when I still had my subscription).

 TheSilo wrote:
"The Emperor saw this opportunity and teleported to the Warmaster's battle barge with two of his Primarchs, Terminator-armoured marines of their Legions, and a number of Custodes." - Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy#.U8Wg441dXTB)

"Lowering the shields of his flagship as a lure, the Emperor, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius, and a force of Imperial Fists teleport aboard the flagship to confront him." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_Heresy#Conflict_and_resolution)

"The Emperor of Mankind rose to the challenge, leading members of His elite personal guard, the Legio Custodes, the Primarchs Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn, and several companies of Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Veteran Space Marines in the assault and teleported aboard the Vengeful Spirit." - 40k Wikia (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy)

Don't forget about the imperial guard version.

Or the whole Only custodes deal for some reason.

 TheSilo wrote:
"The Emperor saw this opportunity and teleported to the Warmaster's battle barge with two of his Primarchs, Terminator-armoured marines of their Legions, and a number of Custodes." - Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy#.U8Wg441dXTB)

"Lowering the shields of his flagship as a lure, the Emperor, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius, and a force of Imperial Fists teleport aboard the flagship to confront him." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_Heresy#Conflict_and_resolution)

"The Emperor of Mankind rose to the challenge, leading members of His elite personal guard, the Legio Custodes, the Primarchs Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn, and several companies of Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Veteran Space Marines in the assault and teleported aboard the Vengeful Spirit." - 40k Wikia (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy)

In every case he's teleporting with a large contingent of dudes. I got in with 3rd edition, so some of the details have clearly changed from time to time. I distinctly remember the passage describing the Emperor's thoughts as Chaos is banging on the door, I'm pretty sure it was a piece in an old White Dwarf from like 2002-2004 (when I still had my subscription).

Thanks for finding a bunch of sources when I was too lazy to.

The writers had no reason to change it. They did anyways, and they changed it to make it worse.

Nothing in those links says anything about guardsmen joining the boarding mission. My point still stands.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Nothing in those links says anything about guardsmen joining the boarding mission. My point still stands.

What point?

Eh my point was? Hmm no counter point perhaps?

I don't remember anymore. I think it’s time for me to sleep.

I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

Or the first books weren't that bad.

Like the first part of the horus hersey Istavan 3.

On the one hand I kind of like that the fluff can morph, like myths, with details changing. It makes a lot of sense that the different Imperial institutions would put their own character in the place of Pius/Custodes/IF Terminator/etc.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Nothing in those links says anything about guardsmen joining the boarding mission. My point still stands.

The mini boardgame Warmaster that was featured in WD 161 includes Imperial Guard units in the Emperor's boarding party, as well as Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Dorn and Sanguinius, and Assassins.

The Emperor believed this would be his only chance to defeat Horus. He was going to take every loyal gun that he could spare from the defense of the Palace with him.

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

It's the same as any prequals to a series with long standing love. yes you get some valid complaints but most of them are "THIS ISN'T EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT TO HAPPEN HOW DARE THEY!"

as it is we don't even know how this'll all play out. for all we know the Pius of history is some 16 year old kid who stole Oly's ID and signed up and was sent onto the ship because the emperor thought he was a perpetual.... actually that'd be kind of amusing

BrianDavion wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

It's the same as any prequals to a series with long standing love. yes you get some valid complaints but most of them are "THIS ISN'T EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT TO HAPPEN HOW DARE THEY!"

as it is we don't even know how this'll all play out. for all we know the Pius of history is some 16 year old kid who stole Oly's ID and signed up and was sent onto the ship because the emperor thought he was a perpetual.... actually that'd be kind of amusing

Not really that its more of. Why did you have to explain certain things. We get it it was epic. But stop writing about them!

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Mortarion getting a tattoo on his heart. A daemon primarch should not be so easily defeated. I like the GK but that was just bull.

Agreed.

 Asherian Command wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

It's the same as any prequals to a series with long standing love. yes you get some valid complaints but most of them are "THIS ISN'T EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT TO HAPPEN HOW DARE THEY!"

as it is we don't even know how this'll all play out. for all we know the Pius of history is some 16 year old kid who stole Oly's ID and signed up and was sent onto the ship because the emperor thought he was a perpetual.... actually that'd be kind of amusing

Not really that its more of. Why did you have to explain certain things. We get it it was epic. But stop writing about them!

except there's demand for it. the HH novels are the best selling books in the 40k novel line.

the thing to remember is that EVERYTHING we thought we knew about the Horus Heresy are legends and myth. we can't get too angry when the facts as we thought we knew them turn out to be differnt. it's like being up set to find out the reality of the man behind the Myth of King Arthur was differnt

BrianDavion wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

It's the same as any prequals to a series with long standing love. yes you get some valid complaints but most of them are "THIS ISN'T EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT TO HAPPEN HOW DARE THEY!"

as it is we don't even know how this'll all play out. for all we know the Pius of history is some 16 year old kid who stole Oly's ID and signed up and was sent onto the ship because the emperor thought he was a perpetual.... actually that'd be kind of amusing

Not really that its more of. Why did you have to explain certain things. We get it it was epic. But stop writing about them!

except there's demand for it. the HH novels are the best selling books in the 40k novel line.

the thing to remember is that EVERYTHING we thought we knew about the Horus Heresy are legends and myth. we can't get too angry when the facts as we thought we knew them turn out to be differnt. it's like being up set to find out the reality of the man behind the Myth of King Arthur was differnt

Actually I would be interested in the king arthur myth's truth.

But in this it is executed poorly. I rather learn about the myth of the men, to know they are human inside, not just badasses. This is one of the reasons why the burning of prospero is everyone's favorite book series.

Dang, I friggin' love the HH novels.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
I didn't realise so many people hated the Horus Heresy novels, I think they're pretty good, some of them (Legion, First Heretic, Know No Fear) are excellent.

It's the same as any prequals to a series with long standing love. yes you get some valid complaints but most of them are "THIS ISN'T EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT TO HAPPEN HOW DARE THEY!"

as it is we don't even know how this'll all play out. for all we know the Pius of history is some 16 year old kid who stole Oly's ID and signed up and was sent onto the ship because the emperor thought he was a perpetual.... actually that'd be kind of amusing

Not really that its more of. Why did you have to explain certain things. We get it it was epic. But stop writing about them!

except there's demand for it. the HH novels are the best selling books in the 40k novel line.

the thing to remember is that EVERYTHING we thought we knew about the Horus Heresy are legends and myth. we can't get too angry when the facts as we thought we knew them turn out to be differnt. it's like being up set to find out the reality of the man behind the Myth of King Arthur was differnt

Yes, it could've been much different.

But would you honestly be happy with a series of books about King Arthur where it turns out that he's a 43 black woman fighting to open a laundromat in downtown LA? Sure, the myths aren't 100% accurate, but do the authors really need to actively hate the myths? Should people who have contempt for the original be trusted with writing an adaptation?

Ollanius Pius is a timelord. Horus turned traitor because someone showed him a picture of the future where his statue was missing. The God Emperor was an atheist who hated Gods! Fulgrim was possessed and then possessed by a Daemon just to fill up space without actually having a fething story. Alpharius turned traitor to save the Imperium - an idea which doesn't make sense, was unnecessary, and essentially is a big F U to Alpha Legion fans. Battle for the Abyss is an entire novel about nothing.

Oh, and there are going to be about 600 more novels before we actually hit the Battle for Terra. Galaxy In Flames was the last Horus Heresy novel to actually advance the plot.