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 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:
Perpetuals.

Every last word written about them.

Oh good Isha, I forgot about that crap. I really don't get the hate for the necron fluff update, it turned the faction from being a one-dimensional group to one with potential for actual characters while still allowing those who want the old style to keep it. IDK just feels like a mix of ward hate and refusing to accept any change whenever I hear someone complain about the necron update especially when using the term Newcrons.

Yeah, I can't say I understand why people don't like that Necron leadership can now have some personality instead of just kill kill kill. I think 40k has enough of that already.

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

Unfortunately almost all of it. Since last year I have slowly just started to hate most of it. The only fluff I enjoy are the 3rd edition Guard codex fluff. I have not read my 6th edition codex because its so bland, nor have I read 7th edition fluff.

So anything outside of the 3rd edition Guard Codex.

I've always enjoyed the little titbit in the Space Wolf Land Raider description that suggests that a standard LR tactic is to hang around the battlefield with it's assault ramp open so that it can crush any enemy troops that wander inside.
Sigh.

 farmersboy wrote:
Oh, and authors forgetting Space Marine power armour has auto-senses - with their helmet on, they don't see with their eyes or hear with their ears, its all processed by the suit and fed straight to their brain...'retinal display' doesn't mean those pointless lenses in their helmets...

Dear God yes. "Well, they'd just shoot the lenses!" when discussing anti-Marine tactics comes close as well, for the same reason.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

ITT: TruCron players teaching NewCrons about their fluff :/

The rest of the surviving Necron ships and the wounded Dead Hand simply vanished without trace from the auguries [...] one second they registered, and the next they were gone.

Source: Fall of Orpheus, p. 58

Sounds mighty fast to me.

 Truth118 wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, C. S. Goto's work is so terrible that many 40k fans don't consider it canon.

I wish I was more familiar with the Mat Ward GK codex; sounds like it would give Newcron hate some context.

It really doesn't.

Just makes him sound more like a kid in a playground going "Yeah, well my guy is like yours, plus a billion!"

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:
Perpetuals.

Every last word written about them.

Oh good Isha, I forgot about that crap. I really don't get the hate for the necron fluff update, it turned the faction from being a one-dimensional group to one with potential for actual characters while still allowing those who want the old style to keep it. IDK just feels like a mix of ward hate and refusing to accept any change whenever I hear someone complain about the necron update especially when using the term Newcrons.

Yeah, I can't say I understand why people don't like that Necron leadership can now have some personality instead of just kill kill kill. I think 40k has enough of that already.

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

Take a look at the Fall of Orpehus book it shows that necrons really don't need the webway to move quickly it just another option for them.

Anything Space Wolf. It gets annoying when the Wolf-Priest is talking to the Long Fang about the Fenris Gate and something else that beats 'We're Nords!' into your face over and over again.

Or the Night Lord Trilogy. Biggest foul up I can think of when they reference the previous Night Lords book, and the 1st Captain Zso Sahaal by name and then change the previous fluff they just mentioned by putting in some other 1st Captain. Either mention the previous book and stick to what was in there, or don't mention it and do your own thing. Don't build off the same universe and decide that the main character of the previous book is just some nobody now.

But, if anyone remembers the Inquisition War with Ordo Hydra... A super secret Ordo above Malleus that... does the same thing as Malleus but also uses a warp-fed daemon that is essentially Tzeentch boogers to devour worlds. A Callidus Assassin that becomes a Genestealer, a Rogue Inquisitor and former Space Marine dropping into the Golden Throne for a chat with the split-personality Emperor... Oh that book was an awful bit of non-canonical garbage.

Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

 Melissia wrote:
Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

Oh god I hate the idea of Malal, and the later incarnation of the same idea, Malice. It's a Chaos God for people who want to be so edgy and hipster they're more chaotic than chaos.

#2edgy4chaos

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:
Perpetuals.

Every last word written about them.

Oh good Isha, I forgot about that crap. I really don't get the hate for the necron fluff update, it turned the faction from being a one-dimensional group to one with potential for actual characters while still allowing those who want the old style to keep it. IDK just feels like a mix of ward hate and refusing to accept any change whenever I hear someone complain about the necron update especially when using the term Newcrons.

Yeah, I can't say I understand why people don't like that Necron leadership can now have some personality instead of just kill kill kill. I think 40k has enough of that already.

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

Take a look at the Fall of Orpehus book it shows that necrons really don't need the webway to move quickly it just another option for them.

I've read this before and I want it to be true, but sadly I have also heard it said that any lore in a GW publication (The codex) trumps anything in a FW publication(Orpheus).

Don't get me wrong, I essential choose to ignore the Dolmen Gates lore and hope it gets retconned later.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:


I've read this before and I want it to be true, but sadly I have also heard it said that any lore in a GW publication (The codex) trumps anything in a FW publication(Orpheus).

Whoever told you this should be avoided in the future. What that person said is utter bullpoo. First of all, FW = GW. Any piece of NewCron lore in a FW book is part of the NewCron lore.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

Oh god I hate the idea of Malal, and the later incarnation of the same idea, Malice. It's a Chaos people who want to be so edgy and hipster they're more chaotic than chaos.

#2edgy4chaos

Ugh, yeah that sucks. Just read it. Seems like preteen fantasy.

Also another bad one, was it Wazdakka that rammed a warbike into a warlord titan and killed it? That was pretty stupid too.

 Gorgrimm wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

Oh god I hate the idea of Malal, and the later incarnation of the same idea, Malice. It's a Chaos people who want to be so edgy and hipster they're more chaotic than chaos.

#2edgy4chaos

Ugh, yeah that sucks. Just read it. Seems like preteen fantasy.

Also another bad one, was it Wazdakka that rammed a warbike into a warlord titan and killed it? That was pretty stupid too.

Pretty sure it was just a Warhound and he killed it with explosives and WHAAAGH energy.

I think the worst bit of fluff was draigo fighting and defeating a primarch. BY HIMSELF.

I got a hundred grey knights killing a primarch, but that was an entire company. An entire company not only that but they all melded their essence into basically a ticking time bomb and when they battle was over the demon banished, the man died for reasons of exploding.

That single piece of fluff pissed me off like no other.

I understood the sisters of battle bit, bathe your self in innocence to protect yourself from evil, because at least that was thought through. With that its just an up scale.

OH look here It took this guy a hundred men to kill a demon by working together. Nah. This guy. Pish THIS GUY. THIS GUY beat a primarch. BY HIMSELF! Why? Because! And he teleports through the warp like the legion of the damned. Yeah lets keep beating this dead pup over and over destroying this idea that only those cursed can use it.

Its just so childish, so over the top that I hate it beyond a belief. That space wolf lore thats passable. But a single grey knight, one that is basically trying to be the Imperium equalivent of Abaddon, is a complete let down and an embrassment to lore.

Heres what I would of done:

1. Made him more reasonable.
2. Due to an unknown demon cursing him to live his life in the warp. Draigo has learned to survive in the warp taking the paths left by daemons and using it to get back to the mortal coil. But once the demons are defeated in the mortal coil he is dragged back into the warp. This has left him scarred and beaten. Nothing is left in this man, just Righteousness and Perseverance. For he is a Hero Among the Grey Knights. And a legend.
3. Make him more grown up. Him staying in the warp proves nothing if we have no details on what he is like a character. He can't just be a badass where nothing degrades him. Living in a place of chaos would hamper your abilities, no matter how strong you are psychologically. Super Human OR NOT!
4. Make him understandable. The Main Reason we all freaking like people Uriel, Loken, and Any of the thousand sons, Is manly because. They are human. They had human qualities. Being human is not a weakness, its a strength and those author's understood that.

Anyway. My reasoning is that Matt Ward, Stop writing childishly. Write like a grown up. Not like the propaganda artists of the 40s.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think the worst bit of fluff was draigo fighting and defeating a primarch. BY HIMSELF.

I got a hundred grey knights killing a primarch, but that was an entire company. An entire company not only that but they all melded their essence into basically a ticking time bomb and when they battle was over the demon banished, the man died for reasons of exploding.

That single piece of fluff pissed me off like no other.

I understood the sisters of battle bit, bathe your self in innocence to protect yourself from evil, because at least that was thought through. With that its just an up scale.

OH look here It took this guy a hundred men to kill a demon by working together. Nah. This guy. Pish THIS GUY. THIS GUY beat a primarch. BY HIMSELF! Why? Because! And he teleports through the warp like the legion of the damned. Yeah lets keep beating this dead pup over and over destroying this idea that only those cursed can use it.

Its just so childish, so over the top that I hate it beyond a belief. That space wolf lore thats passable. But a single grey knight, one that is basically trying to be the Imperium equalivent of Abaddon, is a complete let down and an embrassment to lore.

Heres what I would of done:

1. Made him more reasonable.
2. Due to an unknown demon cursing him to live his life in the warp. Draigo has learned to survive in the warp taking the paths left by daemons and using it to get back to the mortal coil. But once the demons are defeated in the mortal coil he is dragged back into the warp. This has left him scarred and beaten. Nothing is left in this man, just Righteousness and Perseverance. For he is a Hero Among the Grey Knights. And a legend.
3. Make him more grown up. Him staying in the warp proves nothing if we have no details on what he is like a character. He can't just be a badass where nothing degrades him. Living in a place of chaos would hamper your abilities, no matter how strong you are psychologically. Super Human OR NOT!
4. Make him understandable. The Main Reason we all freaking like people Uriel, Loken, and Any of the thousand sons, Is manly because. They are human. They had human qualities. Being human is not a weakness, its a strength and those author's understood that.

Anyway. My reasoning is that Matt Ward, Stop writing childishly. Write like a grown up. Not like the propaganda artists of the 40s.

I take it you haven't heard of Mortarion's Heart?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think the worst bit of fluff was draigo fighting and defeating a primarch. BY HIMSELF.

I got a hundred grey knights killing a primarch, but that was an entire company. An entire company not only that but they all melded their essence into basically a ticking time bomb and when they battle was over the demon banished, the man died for reasons of exploding.

That single piece of fluff pissed me off like no other.

I understood the sisters of battle bit, bathe your self in innocence to protect yourself from evil, because at least that was thought through. With that its just an up scale.

OH look here It took this guy a hundred men to kill a demon by working together. Nah. This guy. Pish THIS GUY. THIS GUY beat a primarch. BY HIMSELF! Why? Because! And he teleports through the warp like the legion of the damned. Yeah lets keep beating this dead pup over and over destroying this idea that only those cursed can use it.

Its just so childish, so over the top that I hate it beyond a belief. That space wolf lore thats passable. But a single grey knight, one that is basically trying to be the Imperium equalivent of Abaddon, is a complete let down and an embrassment to lore.

Heres what I would of done:

1. Made him more reasonable.
2. Due to an unknown demon cursing him to live his life in the warp. Draigo has learned to survive in the warp taking the paths left by daemons and using it to get back to the mortal coil. But once the demons are defeated in the mortal coil he is dragged back into the warp. This has left him scarred and beaten. Nothing is left in this man, just Righteousness and Perseverance. For he is a Hero Among the Grey Knights. And a legend.
3. Make him more grown up. Him staying in the warp proves nothing if we have no details on what he is like a character. He can't just be a badass where nothing degrades him. Living in a place of chaos would hamper your abilities, no matter how strong you are psychologically. Super Human OR NOT!
4. Make him understandable. The Main Reason we all freaking like people Uriel, Loken, and Any of the thousand sons, Is manly because. They are human. They had human qualities. Being human is not a weakness, its a strength and those author's understood that.

Anyway. My reasoning is that Matt Ward, Stop writing childishly. Write like a grown up. Not like the propaganda artists of the 40s.

I take it you haven't heard of Mortarion's Heart?

I've read it :/

It still sounded so childish that I hated it completely...

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think the worst bit of fluff was draigo fighting and defeating a primarch. BY HIMSELF.

I got a hundred grey knights killing a primarch, but that was an entire company. An entire company not only that but they all melded their essence into basically a ticking time bomb and when they battle was over the demon banished, the man died for reasons of exploding.

That single piece of fluff pissed me off like no other.

I understood the sisters of battle bit, bathe your self in innocence to protect yourself from evil, because at least that was thought through. With that its just an up scale.

OH look here It took this guy a hundred men to kill a demon by working together. Nah. This guy. Pish THIS GUY. THIS GUY beat a primarch. BY HIMSELF! Why? Because! And he teleports through the warp like the legion of the damned. Yeah lets keep beating this dead pup over and over destroying this idea that only those cursed can use it.

Its just so childish, so over the top that I hate it beyond a belief. That space wolf lore thats passable. But a single grey knight, one that is basically trying to be the Imperium equalivent of Abaddon, is a complete let down and an embrassment to lore.

Heres what I would of done:

1. Made him more reasonable.
2. Due to an unknown demon cursing him to live his life in the warp. Draigo has learned to survive in the warp taking the paths left by daemons and using it to get back to the mortal coil. But once the demons are defeated in the mortal coil he is dragged back into the warp. This has left him scarred and beaten. Nothing is left in this man, just Righteousness and Perseverance. For he is a Hero Among the Grey Knights. And a legend.
3. Make him more grown up. Him staying in the warp proves nothing if we have no details on what he is like a character. He can't just be a badass where nothing degrades him. Living in a place of chaos would hamper your abilities, no matter how strong you are psychologically. Super Human OR NOT!
4. Make him understandable. The Main Reason we all freaking like people Uriel, Loken, and Any of the thousand sons, Is manly because. They are human. They had human qualities. Being human is not a weakness, its a strength and those author's understood that.

Anyway. My reasoning is that Matt Ward, Stop writing childishly. Write like a grown up. Not like the propaganda artists of the 40s.

I take it you haven't heard of Mortarion's Heart?

I've read it :/

It still sounded so childish that I hated it completely...

Still, Draigo winning by fighting dirty and effectively kicking Morty in the balls and ripping out his daemon name, while Morty kicks the gak out of him and nearly kills him, is a whole lot better than the Ward fluff.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think the worst bit of fluff was draigo fighting and defeating a primarch. BY HIMSELF.

I got a hundred grey knights killing a primarch, but that was an entire company. An entire company not only that but they all melded their essence into basically a ticking time bomb and when they battle was over the demon banished, the man died for reasons of exploding.

That single piece of fluff pissed me off like no other.

I understood the sisters of battle bit, bathe your self in innocence to protect yourself from evil, because at least that was thought through. With that its just an up scale.

OH look here It took this guy a hundred men to kill a demon by working together. Nah. This guy. Pish THIS GUY. THIS GUY beat a primarch. BY HIMSELF! Why? Because! And he teleports through the warp like the legion of the damned. Yeah lets keep beating this dead pup over and over destroying this idea that only those cursed can use it.

Its just so childish, so over the top that I hate it beyond a belief. That space wolf lore thats passable. But a single grey knight, one that is basically trying to be the Imperium equalivent of Abaddon, is a complete let down and an embrassment to lore.

Heres what I would of done:

1. Made him more reasonable.
2. Due to an unknown demon cursing him to live his life in the warp. Draigo has learned to survive in the warp taking the paths left by daemons and using it to get back to the mortal coil. But once the demons are defeated in the mortal coil he is dragged back into the warp. This has left him scarred and beaten. Nothing is left in this man, just Righteousness and Perseverance. For he is a Hero Among the Grey Knights. And a legend.
3. Make him more grown up. Him staying in the warp proves nothing if we have no details on what he is like a character. He can't just be a badass where nothing degrades him. Living in a place of chaos would hamper your abilities, no matter how strong you are psychologically. Super Human OR NOT!
4. Make him understandable. The Main Reason we all freaking like people Uriel, Loken, and Any of the thousand sons, Is manly because. They are human. They had human qualities. Being human is not a weakness, its a strength and those author's understood that.

Anyway. My reasoning is that Matt Ward, Stop writing childishly. Write like a grown up. Not like the propaganda artists of the 40s.

I take it you haven't heard of Mortarion's Heart?

I've read it :/

It still sounded so childish that I hated it completely...

Still, Draigo winning by fighting dirty and effectively kicking Morty in the balls and ripping out his daemon name, while Morty kicks the gak out of him and nearly kills him, is a whole lot better than the Ward fluff.

You aren't getting it. Ahem...

In the battle of armaggedon. It took a company. A company of Grey Knights. To banish the last primarch daemon.

And then lets get this straight. A single grey knight, took out mortartion the prince of decay? Effectively the right hand of Nurgle (Or right tentacle)? By himself?

These guys need to stop watching Predator that is all that I am saying. You're hero can kill dragons, but they can't kill demi-gods using your bloody witts. Its not even a proper build up.

 Gorgrimm wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

Oh god I hate the idea of Malal, and the later incarnation of the same idea, Malice. It's a Chaos people who want to be so edgy and hipster they're more chaotic than chaos.

#2edgy4chaos

Ugh, yeah that sucks. Just read it. Seems like preteen fantasy.

Also another bad one, was it Wazdakka that rammed a warbike into a warlord titan and killed it? That was pretty stupid too.

Damn I never saw Malice get so much hate, I like the Malice fluff as a weaker 5th Chaos power it's cool to have other minor gods running about.

The worst I've read was a book about a Fallen Angel it was like from ten years ago so I might remember it wrong but basically it was about a random fallen who falls out of his ship during the heresy and floats around until he gets sucked into the wrap or something and ends up in 40k there's also Alpha Legion guys and eventually the "hero" turns himself in and gets tortured to death by an Interrogator Chaplain despite saving the Dark Angels and stopping a chaos invasion, it was slowed beyond reason.

Perturabo's Plague in the current CSM codex.
I mean, Perturabo is the Lord of Iron, he wasn't a Psyker when he was alive, and he didn't have anything to do with Nurgle.
And somehow, he magically invokes the power of Nurgle to create Daemon Engines.
It just makes you want to go 'Say again?' .

for me it is the sudden rapid rate at which orks grow. I get the spore thing, let them be hard to eradicate, but them growing overnight is asinine and not necessary for the fluff to work.

Newcrons, easily. So abysmal.

Oddnerd wrote:
for me it is the sudden rapid rate at which orks grow. I get the spore thing, let them be hard to eradicate, but them growing overnight is asinine and not necessary for the fluff to work.

I'm not aware of this one. Where did this show up?

Most of the fluff on Orks of which I am aware, the spores take a LONG time to produce new Yoofs. So long, in fact, that the Imperium doesn't even have a concrete understanding of it ("I thought we killed all of them years ago?"). The stuff I have read, the spores settle and sprout, but the 'nodules' take a long time to develop into orks. Admittedly, the ork scrambles out almost fully grown with all of his 'inborn skillz", but from spore to ork is quite a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Also another bad one, was it Wazdakka that rammed a warbike into a warlord titan and killed it? That was pretty stupid too.

Pretty sure it was just a Warhound and he killed it with explosives and WHAAAGH energy.

So you people would prefer tyranid robots instead of a fairly unique and emotionally moot race that is run a caste system that takes multiple takes from ancient Egyptian society.
Eg.
Warrior-servant/slave
Deathmark/immortal-soldier
Lord/cryptek-noble
Overlord-pheroh
Destroyer- cannibals.

PERPETUALS!

It ruins the entire grimdark atmosphere; only demons should be truly immortal and even they have to regenerate for countless years in the warp after being defeated, before they can be summoned again.

I hate everything about Perpetuals. I used to love the Salamanders, but since they've said Vulkan is a perpetual I've gone right off them.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ciaphas Cain.

(:

lol, don't even know if it's a joke, but exalted.

Anyway, the newcrons. Objectively the most terrible to read on its own merits? Not nearly. Most personally offensive? Yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

Oh good Isha, I forgot about that crap. I really don't get the hate for the necron fluff update, it turned the faction from being a one-dimensional group to one with potential for actual characters while still allowing those who want the old style to keep it. IDK just feels like a mix of ward hate and refusing to accept any change whenever I hear someone complain about the necron update especially when using the term Newcrons.

"Hey don't worry guys, there's a single line in the new codex that says somewhere there are Necrons like the ones in the last codex."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Yeah, I can't say I understand why people don't like that Necron leadership can now have some personality instead of just kill kill kill. I think 40k has enough of that already.

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

There's a difference between disliking the codex as a whole and disliking literally every detail inside of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Something I don't like about it is that now Necrons are reliant on the Webway because Matt Ward couldn't come up with another method of travel for the Necrons. Dolmen gates are ridiculous, and that Necron ships are super slow now? You are telling me that a race that can create stable wormholes(monolith portals, invasion beams etc.) can't move a ship faster than the speed of light?

ITT: TruCron players teaching NewCrons about their fluff :/

The rest of the surviving Necron ships and the wounded Dead Hand simply vanished without trace from the auguries [...] one second they registered, and the next they were gone.

Source: Fall of Orpheus, p. 58

Sounds mighty fast to me.

To be fair, that excerpt isn't from the 5e codex, and seems to be there to directly refute what it said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 YFNPsycho wrote:
Perturabo's Plague in the current CSM codex.
I mean, Perturabo is the Lord of Iron, he wasn't a Psyker when he was alive, and he didn't have anything to do with Nurgle.
And somehow, he magically invokes the power of Nurgle to create Daemon Engines.
It just makes you want to go 'Say again?' .

He's a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided. He can invoke any of the gods for sorcery. It is well within his power.

Draigo.

Da Butcha wrote:

Oddnerd wrote:
for me it is the sudden rapid rate at which orks grow. I get the spore thing, let them be hard to eradicate, but them growing overnight is asinine and not necessary for the fluff to work.

I'm not aware of this one. Where did this show up?

Most of the fluff on Orks of which I am aware, the spores take a LONG time to produce new Yoofs. So long, in fact, that the Imperium doesn't even have a concrete understanding of it ("I thought we killed all of them years ago?"). The stuff I have read, the spores settle and sprout, but the 'nodules' take a long time to develop into orks. Admittedly, the ork scrambles out almost fully grown with all of his 'inborn skillz", but from spore to ork is quite a while.

I can't remember where I got it from, but orks are supposed to take around ten years to grow to adulthood (human height). And then spend the rest of their lives trying to be bigger, greener and meaner.

Space marine extremism