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 Daba wrote:

 Selym wrote:

GW even said that it was the IG models that were the wrong size (too large), and that the rest of the 40k infantry were roughly correct.

Basically this.

Also, wasn't the 8-9 foot marine stated to be 'unusually large' in the actual book, and the author is known for injecting 'largeness' to even non Marines? Somehow, this one large guy was projected onto all marines?

No, he was not.

I think that proportion is also an issue. Just look at Commissar Yarrick's powerclaw, ridiculous.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Selym wrote:

GW even said that it was the IG models that were the wrong size (too large), and that the rest of the 40k infantry were roughly correct.

Basically this.

Also, wasn't the 8-9 foot marine stated to be 'unusually large' in the actual book, and the author is known for injecting 'largeness' to even non Marines? Somehow, this one large guy was projected onto all marines?

No, he was not.

Ah, so it's just a case of other some BL authors and being ignorant then I guess.

 Daba wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Selym wrote:

GW even said that it was the IG models that were the wrong size (too large), and that the rest of the 40k infantry were roughly correct.

Basically this.

Also, wasn't the 8-9 foot marine stated to be 'unusually large' in the actual book, and the author is known for injecting 'largeness' to even non Marines? Somehow, this one large guy was projected onto all marines?

No, he was not.

Ah, so it's just a case of other some BL authors and being ignorant then I guess.

Different opinion on a subjective matter =/= ignorance.

If they didn't check up on or wilfully ignored what the sources said beforehand and what went in the universe, it is ignorance going into the subject.

It's not like it was with the Ian Watson books where there was a blank slate with nothing to work from.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
GW doesn't know how to scale models very well. If you think 10 Space Marine mini's can fit inside a Rhino ur funny.

See if you can fit 5 Ogryns into a Chimera.

You mean 20 boyz in a wagon...

 Daba wrote:
If they didn't check up on or wilfully ignored what the sources said beforehand and what went in the universe, it is ignorance going into the subject.

It's not like it was with the Ian Watson books where there was a blank slate with nothing to work from.

Actually, the BL guys decide what is canon just as much as the studio guys.

They could write that Marines are 12 ft and it would be true.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Daba wrote:
If they didn't check up on or wilfully ignored what the sources said beforehand and what went in the universe, it is ignorance going into the subject.

It's not like it was with the Ian Watson books where there was a blank slate with nothing to work from.

Actually, the BL guys decide what is canon just as much as the studio guys.

They could write that Marines are 12 ft and it would be true.

Or 1' midgets that get stomped on by Ork Boyz because that is propa?

Actually, which books actually state it as 8'? I don't even think BL is responsible, I think it is more fan perception.

 Daba wrote:

Or 1' midgets that get stomped on by Ork Boyz because that is propa?

If they did so, certainly. They haven't yet done so.

Actually, which books actually state it as 8'? I don't even think BL is responsible, I think it is more fan perception.

Eight feet? No idea. Why?

I've seen nine and seven feet, but not eight.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Daba wrote:

Or 1' midgets that get stomped on by Ork Boyz because that is propa?

If they did so, certainly. They haven't yet done so.

Actually, which books actually state it as 8'? I don't even think BL is responsible, I think it is more fan perception.

Eight feet? No idea. Why?

I've seen nine and seven feet, but not eight.

Sergeant Priad in Brotherhood of the Snake was 8 feet tall.

Interesting. So, between the models and various books, there is precedent for everything between 6 and 10 feet.

Lovely.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Interesting. So, between the models and various books, there is precedent for everything between 6 and 10 feet.

Lovely.

Pretty much, I guess. 10 ft? Who was that tall?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Interesting. So, between the models and various books, there is precedent for everything between 6 and 10 feet.

Lovely.

Pretty much, I guess. 10 ft? Who was that tall?

...I am fairly sure I have seen that. Don't quote me on that though. I'll see if I can find the source.

I have sources available for everything between six and nine feet, though.

Well, the nine feet source you quoted earlier is pretty vague. It doesn't actually say that. We do not know how tall the person who the marine is compared to is. And anyway it is just an expression for a rough estimate. And of course this is a statement about this single marine, and cannot be extrapolated to be an average height of marines in general, especially considering the amount of material which contradicts this.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, the nine feet source you quoted earlier is pretty vague. It doesn't actually say that. We do not know how tall the person who the marine is compared to is. And anyway it is just an expression for a rough estimate. And of course this is a statement about this single marine, and cannot be extrapolated to be an average height of marines in general, especially considering the amount of material which contradicts this.

The man he was compared to was a healthy adult.

It does not get much clearer without actually saying 'he was exactly nine feet.'

There are plenty of five feet tall healthy adults.

 Crimson wrote:
There are plenty of five feet tall healthy adults.

He wasn't exactly portrayed as smaller than average, and while he might have been 5 ft, that would put the Marine at 7'6"- well above your Holy Truth of 7 ft.

Is there still anything useful coming out of the argument at this point?

 Ashiraya wrote:

He wasn't exactly portrayed as smaller than average, and while he might have been 5 ft, that would put the Marine at 7'6"- well above your Holy Truth of 7 ft.

Oh, that would be perfectly acceptable. Marines are not clones after all, so there has to be some variation between the individuals. Seven feet is just the average height.

Is there still anything useful coming out of the argument at this point?

Seems rather unlikely. Perhaps someone finds it entertaining?

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

He wasn't exactly portrayed as smaller than average, and while he might have been 5 ft, that would put the Marine at 7'6"- well above your Holy Truth of 7 ft.

Oh, that would be perfectly acceptable. Marines are not clones after all, so there has to be some variation between the individuals. Seven feet is just the average height.

Is there still anything useful coming out of the argument at this point?

Seems rather unlikely. Perhaps someone finds it entertaining?

I certainly consider this proper entertainment this size thing has been talked about already anyway so let bygones be bygones

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Interesting. So, between the models and various books, there is precedent for everything between 6 and 10 feet.

Lovely.

Pretty much, I guess. 10 ft? Who was that tall?

Calgar from god-knows-where, and Pasinaus from the Ultramarines Omnibus.

 Selym wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Interesting. So, between the models and various books, there is precedent for everything between 6 and 10 feet.

Lovely.

Pretty much, I guess. 10 ft? Who was that tall?

Calgar from god-knows-where, and Pasinaus from the Ultramarines Omnibus.

Wasn't Pasanius noted as being really tall but never really clarified his exact height? We just don't know

 Ashiraya wrote:
I can't see very well, the picture is tiny.

Sorry, should have given a link to my gallery image.



And a brighter picture but without a regular figure to compare to:

That's a pretty big gun.

It's really impressive for a scratchbuild, though.

Nope. Nothing more to say.

 Ashiraya wrote:
That's a pretty big gun.

It's really impressive for a scratchbuild, though.

Yep, it's heavy bolter sized and those are ork arms under all that Green Stuff. After digging out the figure to make certain he measures 50mm high!!! Even at 30mm scale that puts him at roughly nine feet and four inches tall.

The most important thing for me on that model (and my subsequent MK II Marine, although when I start my next one it will be more like MK V) is that the helmet got a size increase too. Someone mentioned earlier that the heads and helmets are the same size, which is true, and also whenever you see a 'Truescale' Space Marine the helmets are never modified. I did make a correctly proportioned 54mm Marine and, based on that model, the main body of the helmets at 28mm are the exact right size (if you discount the pipes and things around the edge which are far too bulky) but all the rest of the body proportions are all very wrong. Depending on how you look at it a Marine's lower leg is too long or his upper leg is too short, they have no waist and/or the chest is too wide and heads, hands and feet are all too big.

I think that it is the proportions rather than the sizes which make all Citadel models so wrong as demonstrated by the picture I posted further back in the thread comparing a Cadian with a an actual human being. The same difference applies to the vehicles.

I saw someone make really badass truescaled marines by using Tartaros terminators as a base. I'll see if I can dig up the pic.

I've seen those (or some very like them) and those Tartaros legs work great - someone even used the Contemptor Dreadnought head and that was a fantastic idea. My gripe with using termi legs generally is 1. it's expensive and 2. it still doesn't correct the proportions. I really should get on and make a start with my next Truescale Marine but...

Main problem with Marine proportions are the too short legs, so using larger termie legs is a logical step. The difficulty with them is that the termie legs are so bulky and hips so wide, that they will easily look weird unless you extensively customise the rest of the body as well. It can look great, but it takes a lot of work as at that point you're basically resculpting half of the model. Personally I just enlarge the power armour legs a bit; it is easy enough that I can actually convert an entire army that way without going mad.

On the topic of BL representation of Space Marines...

Dan Abnett, in one of the Eisenhorn novels, describes one of the White Consuls Space Marines being at a meeting where Inquisitor Eisenhorn, several Lord Generals and other Imperial worthies are present.

The Space Marine is, in the scene, drinking from a cup of tea and, Eisenhorn notes, even going so far as to extend his pinky. Abnett describes said pinky as "the size and shape of an Arbiter's truncheon".

Arbiters only carry one kind of truncheon: the power maul.



...that would make said Space Marine of the White Consuls Chapter abso-fething-lutely huge if his pinky is half a meter long and three centimeters thick.

 Psienesis wrote:
Abnett describes said pinky as "the size and shape of an Arbiter's truncheon".

Arbiters only carry one kind of truncheon: the power maul. his pinky is half a meter long and three centimeters thick.

Lewd.