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2014/07/11 01:46:24
Subject: Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
Ouze wrote: T...did his [Adam Sandler's] movies actually become significantly worse on an ongoing basis, or did I just get older, and they were always really bad?
They really do get worse as you go on. I think 50 First Dates was the last one I watched. Which I liked, btw.
Ouze wrote: T...did his [Adam Sandler's] movies actually become significantly worse on an ongoing basis, or did I just get older, and they were always really bad?
They really do get worse as you go on. I think 50 First Dates was the last one I watched. Which I liked, btw.
Yeah but thats because the directors were competent and smart. They didn't rely on stupid humor or the happy madison idea of funny.
Ouze wrote: T...did his [Adam Sandler's] movies actually become significantly worse on an ongoing basis, or did I just get older, and they were always really bad?
They really do get worse as you go on. I think 50 First Dates was the last one I watched. Which I liked, btw.
Leigen_Zero wrote: Thing that frustrates me about critics is that most of them think that unless a movie is intelligent, thought provoking, and has some deeply-hidden meaning that would put a hipster making abstract-performance-art-via-interperative-moustache-styling in a starbucks to shame in it's cryptically-hidden message, it must be a crap movie...
Not really. There's plenty of really well received movies that are simple action flicks. For example Die Hard has a 92% score on Rotten Tomatoes, even though it isn't "intelligent, thought provoking, and has some deeply hidden meaning..." It's just a really well constructed, well made action flick with a really charismatic lead actor and a fun villain.
The films you listed didn't get panned because they weren't high art, they got panned because they're pretty crappy movies. This doesn't mean you can't like them or that it's bad to like them, but it does mean they're not very good movies.
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EmilCrane wrote: Well it goes without saying that the original three were the superior films. By no means is RotS a good movie but it does have some redeeming points I feel. And besides the end of Jedi, which is great, I'm not too keen on the rest of it (particularly the ewoks, I didn't like them as a kid and I still don't), but you are right, the lightsabre fights in the prequels are impressive but lack the emotional power of the original trilogy.
RotS has one major redeeming feature - stuff happens in it. The first two prequels were basically treading water, spending large amounts of time on stuff that didn't really matter, basically just so they could get people invested in the three key relationships in Anakin's life (Obi-Wan, Padme and Palpatine), and of those only the Palpatine relationship worked on any level.
The third film, while it was let down by some really awful moments (NOOOOO! and 'she died of broken heart' but there were others) at least told the actual moments of the prequels that mattered - Anakin's fall, the fight with Obi-Wan, the betrayal of the Jedi, and the formation of the resistance.
And the standards of the special effects were much higher, so that helps.
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Easy E wrote: Hayden Christiansen is not a terrible actor. He was pretty strng in Life as House or somethign like that prior to his role in Star Wars. However, he is probably one of those actors that is only as good as his director, and George Lucas is a terrible director for actors to work with.
There was a lot of talent in the Star Wars prequels that really floundered. Natalie Portman is a fine actress, but her performance in the prequels (especially the first movie) was terrible. Ewan McGregor has been absolutely incredible in other roles, but in the prequels he was very flat (he got better as he started to take on Alec Guiness' mannerisms, but he never really brought enough to the role).
Only Ian McDiarmid really did well, and that's probably that he actually had some decent material and interesting motivations to work with.
So I think it was a bit harsh to write off a young actor like Hayden Christiansen, when much more experienced actors were struggling its no surprise he floundered.
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jasper76 wrote: It is probably also hard to act out an entire movie in front a blue screen (or whatever they use nowadays).
People say that, but actors have been working in front on stage for hundreds of years, often with only abstract set dressing behind them and an audience in front of them. I don't think the issue is the green screen, but the skill of the director.
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Bran Dawri wrote: Finally, someone actually made a Basic Instinct II? Why?
Somebody thought that making the same movie, except this time with a Sharon Stone in her mid-40s, would be a powerful erotic thriller.
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gorgon wrote: Yes, and the innovation with Blair Witch that's lost in time is that it was a found footage film with a hoax attached. It sounds silly now, but having seen it on opening night I can tell you that there were people in the theater that were unsure if the movie was fake or real.
Yeah, horror movies had run as hoaxes before - The Exorcist had a rumour campaign that it was totally based on some real event, honest you guys. The Amityville Horror took that con to crazy level, with the people involved in the original story actually claiming it was real, and keeping that bs up for years.
As you say, the real innovation with Blair Witch was in claiming their wobbly cam stuff was the real footage of the event, which was just different enough to get people believing it might be real this time.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/07/11 02:36:28
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2014/07/11 02:51:46
Subject: Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
Experiment 626 wrote: A lot of the Costner 'hate' is knee-jerking to the fact he took the Best Director Oscar for his directorial debut film, Dances With Wolves. He was seen as too young and stepping on the toes of long time directors.
Pretty much anything he does gets nit-picked for the stupidest and/or smallest things simply because some to this day think it was utter BS that he won that Oscar...
Sort of. I mean, there's the issue that Dances With Wolves isn't particularly good, and yet somehow beat out Goodfellas for Best Picture. So right there you've earned the ill-will of a lot of movie snobs.
Then with Waterworld you’ve got that weird Hollywood thing where a film with a blown budget is assumed to be not just a financial disaster but also a terrible movie. For some reason bad news on any level assumes all the news about the film is bad. Of course, it doesn’t actually work that way, films can have terrible financial planning and control but still be good movies with huge box office potential - Titanic limped in to editing with terrible buzz and lots of rumours about James Cameron’s career being over. But, well, Waterworld finally hit screens and it was a middling character drama set on a small boat, bookended by two pretty big action sequences, so it was never going to overcome the bad buzz from the production.
And well, Kevin Costner went on to make The Postman afterwards, which was the real disaster of his career – as well as being a straight up terrible movie it hit the box office like a stone in deep water.
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gorgon wrote: I think that's actually a good example of how critics can get swept up by a movie just like the rest of us. I had a lot of fun watching the Avengers, but at the end of the day it had a basic, formulaic plot, a lot of superheroics, and very little depth. RDJ (as usual) and some snappy, classic Whedon-style dialogue covered over some of the weaknesses.
I have a theory that there's a handful of really good comic book stories - the Batman origin story, the Superman origin story and a few others, and each time we see those stories on screen for the first time we love them, even when they're not really that well done.
The Avengers was the first time we saw the team up story, where a bunch of stand alone characters get together to face some bigger evil. Seeing that story for the first time got the film a lot of credit that it maybe didn't deserve.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 02:58:53
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2014/07/11 03:00:10
Subject: Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
Oh please, the only good parts of that movie were the parts Lucas stole from other, better films (the Searchers, Fifth Element, Braveheart, Gladiator, etc).
Like what exactly?
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sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2014/07/11 03:03:35
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
Ouze wrote: This thread provides me with an opportunity to ask a question I've wondered about now and then.
When I was younger, I used to like the Adam Sandler movies. Specifically Billy Madison, Happy Gilmore, The Wedding Singer, 50 First Dates, and to a lesser extent, Mr. Deeds.
I think Happy Gilmore and The Wedding Singer hold up pretty well. 50 First Dates had a really sweet ending, but was never that good through most of the film.
I don't know what happened that his more recent films are so similar to those movies, but without the charm. It'd be interesting to look at the writing credits for his earlier films compared to his later ones.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2014/07/11 03:56:31
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
So that has led me to wondering - did his movies actually become significantly worse on an ongoing basis, or did I just get older, and they were always really bad?
Probably a little from column A and a little from column B.
That, or Sandler Fatigue. How many times can you see the same thing, only with a new twist?
He also tried to be more serious (Spanglish, and a few others), and he's just not good in that role.
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2014/07/11 13:42:02
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a 'Razzie' that you enjoyed?
gorgon wrote: I think that's actually a good example of how critics can get swept up by a movie just like the rest of us. I had a lot of fun watching the Avengers, but at the end of the day it had a basic, formulaic plot, a lot of superheroics, and very little depth. RDJ (as usual) and some snappy, classic Whedon-style dialogue covered over some of the weaknesses.
I have a theory that there's a handful of really good comic book stories - the Batman origin story, the Superman origin story and a few others, and each time we see those stories on screen for the first time we love them, even when they're not really that well done.
The Avengers was the first time we saw the team up story, where a bunch of stand alone characters get together to face some bigger evil. Seeing that story for the first time got the film a lot of credit that it maybe didn't deserve.
Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not panning Avengers. I think Whedon deserves a ton of credit for getting it all to work onscreen...and that's higher praise than it might seem. *LOTS* could have gone wrong with that film.
The crowded cast is one big issue. Another is making Hulk/Iron Man/Thor superheroics work visually in the same movie as those of Cap/Widow/Hawkeye. That stuff is easy to draw in a comic book or cartoon, but a lot harder with live actors. Whedon mostly accomplished all the above by keeping things very simple and splitting up the heroes at superhero time.
I think Whedon and Marvel have their work cut out for them with Avengers 2 -- its cast is even more crowded, and it's going to have even more hype than the original (and thus maybe under a little more scrutiny). Marvel also seems to be getting more and more ambitious (and maybe making some missteps?) with their MCU threads and interconnectivity. I think the film has a real risk of collapsing under its own weight. We'll see if Whedon can pull it off twice.
Huh, I really enjoyed some of these...the ones that really point out where Last Action Hero, Wyatt Earp(I know there's better movies about Earp, but I still enjoy it), Little Nicky, Dukes of Hazzard, and Big Daddy
Oh, and Waterworld
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 16:42:50
sebster wrote:
And well, Kevin Costner went on to make The Postman afterwards, which was the real disaster of his career – as well as being a straight up terrible movie it hit the box office like a stone in deep water.
My problems with The Postman mostly stem from what it did to the book it was “based" on. There were some pretty glaring divergencies, But it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, should re-read the book
Oh please, the only good parts of that movie were the parts Lucas stole from other, better films (the Searchers, Fifth Element, Braveheart, Gladiator, etc).
Like what exactly?
The original Star Wars had some massively derivative stuff in it as well. Watch Hidden Fortress and The Dam Busters and tell me you don’t see echoes of them in Star Wars Somewhere on youtube there is a 1-1 audio swap for the final dam scene and trench run.
So that has led me to wondering - did his movies actually become significantly worse on an ongoing basis, or did I just get older, and they were always really bad?
Probably a little from column A and a little from column B.
That, or Sandler Fatigue. How many times can you see the same thing, only with a new twist?
He also tried to be more serious (Spanglish, and a few others), and he's just not good in that role.
I liked Punch Drunk Love. 50First Dates (the ultimate chick fllick) just made me want to gauge out the eyeballs of every creature on the planet, to save them before they saw what I saw.
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