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It's probably a stupid question. How big of a deal is it to people of you are over one on points? I have an 1850 list that comes out to 1851, I wouldn't care about one point but I don't know how other people feel about it.

Would probably be better in General.

Strict RAW, you and your opponent decided on 1850. If you have to drop a model or piece of wargear to be under that limit then do so.

In tournaments, you are not allowed to be over (obviously). In friendly games...it varies. Some people are OK with a few point overage, otehrs are not.

I will spend extra effort to ensure that my lists are equal to or under the agreed upon points, and I hope that my opponent does the same.

However, I understand that life is important and prevents people sometimes from making everything perfect. Who cares if the list he has written up is 1855 and I have 1850? Telling him to remove a melta bomb takes longer than just starting the game and moving on to have fun.

Ok thanks.

Of course, you could just ask to change the agreed points limit before the game, but definitely not after the game begins. How your opponent reacts depends on several things. If it's a pickup game it probably would not be a big deal. However if you agree to a points limit well in advance of the game and you want to change the points right before the game begins I know I for one would be a little miffed with my opponent.

I'm confident that if you're a friendly sort of person, no one will care that you are over. They're more interested in playing than worrying about a point.

Yeah, so long as you discuss it before the game, most people won't have a big problem with it. As a courtesy to your opponents, though, it's always good practice to build your lists within the limit.

In friendly games, I don't care at all. (I often short myself on points purposefully, so it isn't going to be that big of a deal.) However, in a competitive game I'd be furious.

+/- 5 points is perfectly acceptable no matter what I play IF the minimum war gear removal would drop 3 points or so below max points. If it's five points over and he has Melta Bombs, yes, I'd be a bit annoyed that he or she purposefully took a piece of gear past the spending limit but if it's a squad of 8 Genestealers (all I can think of) with toxin sacs at +3pts per model and the end result is 1503pts, I won't mind a bit as long as I'm not seeing a single 5pt option that can be cut from a single model. Really depends on how much effort was made to stay under the value.

I think it's mostly down to how lists are built in your group. If the usual game setup is to show up, find an opponent, and then both build lists on the spot, it's not that big a deal. On the other hand, the way I play is to build lists in advance to a variety of points levels, and I rarely play a game that didn't have a points value agreed on several days in advance. In that scenario, showing up with a list that's a few points over is disrespectful. If you've got advance notice of the points value, you can go ahead and make whatever hard choices are necessary to reach that value. Your opponent has done so (or should have), so not putting in similar effort shows you don't respect his time.

Giving some advance notice so that your opponent can react to the relaxed restriction is fine, though.

As others have mentioned, if you and your opponent have agreed that a few points here and there aren't a big deal, then that's totally fine.

I do get a little annoyed, however, when someone shows up with a 2003 (or 2005, or 2009) point list and expects me to be perfectly okay with it when the agreed point value was 2000 (or below).

I would still play them, of course, but it's often a bit of forshadowing that they may be a little lax with other rules. From previous experience, this means I will probably have to deal with 6" movement that is more like 7 1/2", 'accidentally' rolling extra dice during shooting, and other minor faux pas of wargaming.

Intentionally going a few points over certainly isn't gamebreaking or a terrible travesty by any stretch, but it is a little presumptuous, a little annoying, and can reflect poorly on you as a player (depending on the environment).

DoW

 Bludbaff wrote:
If the usual game setup is to show up, find an opponent, and then both build lists on the spot, it's not that big a deal..

I have to say, I've never understood that approach.

If I don't have a specific game lined up with someone, I have always made a point of having lists pre-made in the main points limits played at the venue. That way, when you do find someone who is up for a game, you don't have to waste half an hour setting up lists before you can get started on the actual game.

It also nicely invalidates the '...but I was in a hurry!' defence.

 insaniak wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:
If the usual game setup is to show up, find an opponent, and then both build lists on the spot, it's not that big a deal..

I have to say, I've never understood that approach.

If I don't have a specific game lined up with someone, I have always made a point of having lists pre-made in the main points limits played at the venue. That way, when you do find someone who is up for a game, you don't have to waste half an hour setting up lists before you can get started on the actual game.

It also nicely invalidates the '...but I was in a hurry!' defence.

Agreed on all of the above. Especially the time-saving aspect.

Pre-making several TAC lists at various point values also helps avoid any unintentional (or intentional) list tailoring: "Oh I'm playing against Orks? Hmm... well I haven't used my 9 Hellhounds in a while..."

DoW

It's a point limit. It's courtesy to your opponent to play by the rules and not go over, just like it's a courtesy to not fudge your movement, and push your model a hair farther than the line on the ruler.

In either case, it's a tiny thing that almost certainly isn't going to make any difference over the course of the game, but it's not like you're dealing with any sort of rules gray area either.

Zero points over is acceptable.

When two people agree upon a points limit, both should have enough respect to make their list equal to or less than the agreed upon limit.

1 point over is breaking the agreement, and disrespecting your opponent.

If you are over, it should be no big deal to drop something to make your list come in at or under the agreed upon points limit, and this should be done well before you are about to deploy.

I make lists that come to the points limit without going over. Then I tweak them and re-make them to shuffle things around without going over the limit that we have agreed upon.

If I am expected to make a list at or below the limit we have agreed upon, then I ask my opponent to adhere to the agreement as well. It is just common courtesy to do so.

I wouldn't mind 1 or 2 points over as long as you haven't reached 4 points under the limit and added things just to be a bit closer to the limit.

Most people (from experience) don't mind a few points. If you are 5+ points over and you can drop Melta Bombs, most people in my area will ask you to drop it, unless they've also gone over by a small number of points. If you are an entire Meltagun/Multimelta over, we tend to get you to drop it, or increase our points to match.

It really varies from player to player.
I personally don't mind 1-2 points over, more than that and I'll add something to my list to match your points (I always have a few pts under on my lists, so I can just throw a bomb in)

I've a hard time understanding it, it's not like you go over the agreed points limit (or required limit by the venue) by accident.

I mean you show up with your list premade, you could've made sure it was equal or lower than the agreed limit.

Playing with people I know very well: not a problem. We often play lopsided games where the difference can be over 200 points. Those games are usually quick throw together's without printed lists anyways; just grab what looks cool.

Playing with people I either don't know or only have a passing acquaintence with (ie: most people at the local FLGS). I won't go over by even a single point and I show up with printed list(s).

All my games have been pre-agreed points settings, days in advance. I would be very miffed if someone showed up with a list that then goes over. I usually end up a few points short myself, but never over.

Mind you I'd still play a 1503 match when I agreed on 1500. Going to the FLGS etc. was already taking time, I can just as well play a game now. But if you win with your three points over, you'll never hear the end of how it was that illegal meltabomb killing my carnifex that won you the game.

The key word is "Limit"
Not one point over, even in a friendly game.
I too have folders of pre-made lists for all my armies in their cases, at varying points levels.
For example, in my Crimson Fist army, I have a list for the 10th company at 500, 1000, and 1500 pts

A limit is a not a target for which you can be on either side of the line. A limit is a maximum, a threshold not to be surpassed.

This is a silly question, which can be essentially boiled down to :

Is it against the rules to consciously cheat?

As with all questions about consciously cheating, I guess what you're really asking is if people will care about your cheating. The only answer to that is "maybe, definitely". As in, they might care enough to say something about it, but it will probably at least irk most people.

I really have to question why one would even consider going over the point limit when making a list in advance.

It's like going to a film and agreeing that everyone pays for his own ticket.
You're a friend and I don't mind that you forgot cash, I will happily borrow you the money.
But it get's annoying when you do it on purpose and if it happens all the time.

Or deciding to meet at 15:00, how would you feel if people constantly showed up too late?

The question could be re-written to: "How would you feel if people broke an agreement?"

Be honest with your opponent. Let them know that your over the limit and have a drop prepared in case they want it. The key lays in telling them before the game. By asking about it before, you can judge the situation on a case by case basis. As is, you can see the varying opinions on the matter.

Personally, I would recommend being lenient here, if your opponent brings it up. It's a game of toy soldiers. If you have to be that strict about it, it really stops being for fun. Also if your game plan can't handle a few points difference, you may want to go back to the drawing plan.

My biggest problem is that 1 point over on your list rarely equates to exactly 1 point of wargear (and if you do have one...why soon you just remove it?). More often, it is that 5 or 10 point upgrade that takes you over the limit. Honestly, it shouldn't be that hard to find a point somewhere - drop a model, pick up a small upgrade you should be set.

That being said, I'm typically pretty flexible when it comes to things like this in friendly games.

Over is over, whether it is one point, five points or 20 points. If we agreed on 1850 and you show up with 1851, you are already cheating. "But it's only one point!". Yeah, sure, and that meltabomb or that 2 point upgrade or whatever can change the game. Bottom line. Be polite and don't cheat.

I like to play 1950pts in 2000pt games and win, it just feels like an achieved goal in my life

The limit is the limit. You're free to make a list as much under the limit as you'd like.

And I think you'll find if you get used to building your lists under the points limit (if you can't find anything that fits the bill exactly), that it will eventually make you a much better player (and list builder) in the future!

The solution, to me, is simple. If I agree to play an 1500 points game, and my opponent asks if it is okay for him to take 1523 points (To get round squad numbers or whatever), then I will, too.

 yakface wrote:

The limit is the limit. You're free to make a list as much under the limit as you'd like.

Heh, the GW Battle Bunker Glen Burnie (or at least the group that ran tournies there) instituted a rule that you could not be more than 50 Points under. Cause they got tired of me showing up at 2K tournies with 1850 lists.... And being competitive. I was using their tournies to test GT lists.