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I like it, some people don't but it goes great with a deepstriking list.

I think it deserves alot more credit then it gets

It's a AP3 ST 5 flamer that has torrent and a D3 shot Lascannon. Plus it get's a +1 from Cursed Earth and it's Tzeentch so it rerolls 1s that's pretty decent for 100 points.

I like it.

Has anyone had any success with bare bones 140 point Soul Grinders?

 Desubot wrote:
Well it doesn't say they get "Relenetless" just they count as stationary :/ same thing but technically not the same.

Yes they do get relentless, read the special rules entry

Hollismason wrote:
It's a AP3 ST 5 flamer that has torrent and a D3 shot Lascannon. Plus it get's a +1 from Cursed Earth and it's Tzeentch so it rerolls 1s that's pretty decent for 100 points.

I like it.

Has anyone had any success with bare bones 140 point Soul Grinders?

Probably best to deep strike the chariot if going second.

Going to try a soul grinders list against a good opponent tomorrow

I'm going with 160 point Tzeentch grinders with torrent. I think it has good synergy with the actual shots which go away with the pie

Blight Grenades got better, as did Rhinos (vehicles in general), so that's a slight buff to Plague Marines squads.

The changes to Challenges are quite big for Chaos, possibly more so than for any other faction, as being forced to issue challenges is no longer a big drawback. Especially for Juggerlords who can dish out an insane amount of attacks.

Spell Familiars got a lot more useful, possibly one of the most useful items in the game now.

Access to Telepathy is also really good, with Invisibility being really powerful and Psychic Scream being increased from 12" to 18" (if I recall right, don't have my books with me right now)

Be'Lakor guaranteeing Invisibility is nice. FMC took a big hit, but always having a 2+ cover save makes up for a little bit of that. His model is so tiny that he is easy to hide out of LOS anyways.

Being able to use Daemonology without periling on any doubles (for Daemon Princes and Sorcs with that Crimson Slaughter artifact) can be handy.

Heldrakes took a pretty big hit, but are still good. Just not an auto-take, but that opens up for more creative lists, imo.

Psychic Focus is pretty sweet for unmarked sorcerers (a lvl 3 Sorc with 3 powers from Telepathy and thus the Primaris, with a spell familiar? Yes please), but not-so-cool for marked ones.

Now that Battle Bros can join each other's transports, can models from the Daemon codex enter Rhinos and Land Raiders? Daemonic Instability prevents them from -joining-, but entering a transport is entering, not joining, isn't it? A Land Raider filled with Heralds would be very expensive, but might be fun.

Raw yes, but few daemons are infantry.

A marked CSM sorcerer can't take 3 generic lore powers. One must be their god's power. The primaris is an extra bonus, it doesn't take the slot of your one compulsory.

 Spellbound wrote:
A marked CSM sorcerer can't take 3 generic lore powers. One must be their god's power. The primaris is an extra bonus, it doesn't take the slot of your one compulsory.

as with 6th, marking your sorc is a huge waste

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well it doesn't say they get "Relenetless" just they count as stationary :/ same thing but technically not the same.

Yes they do get relentless, read the special rules entry

book or digital as it is not in the book

GrafWattenburg wrote:


Now that Battle Bros can join each other's transports, can models from the Daemon codex enter Rhinos and Land Raiders? Daemonic Instability prevents them from -joining-, but entering a transport is entering, not joining, isn't it? A Land Raider filled with Heralds would be very expensive, but might be fun.

I had the same idea when I first saw the new battle brothers rules. However if you look through the demon dex there are few infantry and none of them seem to benefit enough from the land raider to justify its cost.

JubbJubbz wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:


Now that Battle Bros can join each other's transports, can models from the Daemon codex enter Rhinos and Land Raiders? Daemonic Instability prevents them from -joining-, but entering a transport is entering, not joining, isn't it? A Land Raider filled with Heralds would be very expensive, but might be fun.

I had the same idea when I first saw the new battle brothers rules. However if you look through the demon dex there are few infantry and none of them seem to benefit enough from the land raider to justify its cost.

Yeah, I agree. You could put 8 heralds in there, but that would get insanely expensive. A Spartan might work though, as you can fit 3-4 Heralds and a lot of infantry (Daemonettes) in there. The LR Dirge Caster would also be good. Not super-competitive, but it might work.

It's a nice way for plaguebearers to get around the board a bit faster, but that's about all.

Hmmm.... is there any reason Bloodcrushers can't hop in a Land Raider?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Hmmm.... is there any reason Bloodcrushers can't hop in a Land Raider?

The same reason a chapter master on bike can't hop in a land raider.

Transports may only hold unit type infantry. Bikes, Calvary, jump infantry, jet pack infantry, beasts, walkers, other vehicles, zooming flyers, superheavies, and artillery are not unit type infantry.

The basic Landraider for Chaos Space Marines kind of sucks. 10 model limit etc.. etc..

Ive been running min 10 man squads of Bloodletters with the Bloodreaper upgraded champion, who totes around an Axe of Khorne for 10 points. Throwing them inside Land Raiders with Dirge Casters. 340 points and they're terrifying. The Reaper has an AP2 Weapon at Initiative, the Letters are all AP3 and have 2 attacks on the charge.

Ive been running 2 Heralds of Khorne on Bloodthrones conferring Rage to the Letters while hiding behind the Landraiders for cover. It's actually pretty terrifying how effective they are.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Ive been running min 10 man squads of Bloodletters with the Bloodreaper upgraded champion, who totes around an Axe of Khorne for 10 points. Throwing them inside Land Raiders with Dirge Casters. 340 points and they're terrifying. The Reaper has an AP2 Weapon at Initiative, the Letters are all AP3 and have 2 attacks on the charge.

Ive been running 2 Heralds of Khorne on Bloodthrones conferring Rage to the Letters while hiding behind the Landraiders for cover. It's actually pretty terrifying how effective they are.

^^ Sounds like a blast to use! I now wanna try this!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GrafWattenburg wrote:
.

Heldrakes took a pretty big hit, but are still good. Just not an auto-take, but that opens up for more creative lists, imo.

This is why i brought this topic up! I am probably one of the few who was happy the drake got nerfed a little cause now i dont feel bound to take it and now we can see new lists and ideas arise.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Ive been running min 10 man squads of Bloodletters with the Bloodreaper upgraded champion, who totes around an Axe of Khorne for 10 points. Throwing them inside Land Raiders with Dirge Casters. 340 points and they're terrifying. The Reaper has an AP2 Weapon at Initiative, the Letters are all AP3 and have 2 attacks on the charge.

Ive been running 2 Heralds of Khorne on Bloodthrones conferring Rage to the Letters while hiding behind the Landraiders for cover. It's actually pretty terrifying how effective they are.

Could also add a Herald for hate, or split on on a juggernaut off from hounds to join them

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Ive been running min 10 man squads of Bloodletters with the Bloodreaper upgraded champion, who totes around an Axe of Khorne for 10 points. Throwing them inside Land Raiders with Dirge Casters. 340 points and they're terrifying. The Reaper has an AP2 Weapon at Initiative, the Letters are all AP3 and have 2 attacks on the charge.

It's 345 points. I will try something like this somewhere in August. I'm giving the Land Raider Daemonic Possession as the Bloodletters are cheap and the BS3 penalty isn't that severe for twin-linked weapons: without twin-linked 66% -> 50% and with twin-linked 89% -> 75%. I also feel compelled to give the unit an Icon and Instrument though they're not that useful when in a Land Raider. The Icon can still be very useful when the unit is out and in close combat and the Instrument gives me the incentive to Deep Strike the unit instead if I feel that is better when deploying. This will be 380 points instead. Maybe I could cut the Instrument but not the Icon.

I would also like to add that you should ALWAYS put dozer blades on chaos land raiders. For 5 points you can't go wrong, especially when one failed dangerous terrain test and you're screwed.

It just really sucks chaos land raiders are capped at 10, as you can't put in a squad of daemons with a herald in one ever. However, I'm probably going to be doing the bloodletters with the champion, that's a squad that's way cheaper than CSM or Khorne Berserkers and way more killy.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Ive been running min 10 man squads of Bloodletters with the Bloodreaper upgraded champion, who totes around an Axe of Khorne for 10 points. Throwing them inside Land Raiders with Dirge Casters. 340 points and they're terrifying. The Reaper has an AP2 Weapon at Initiative, the Letters are all AP3 and have 2 attacks on the charge.

Ive been running 2 Heralds of Khorne on Bloodthrones conferring Rage to the Letters while hiding behind the Landraiders for cover. It's actually pretty terrifying how effective they are.

Could also add a Herald for hate, or split on on a juggernaut off from hounds to join them

Thats what the bloodthrones are for They confer their locus within a 6" bubble to all Daemons of Khorne. Since Bloodletters come in squads of 10 base you cant add a Herald to the sqaud then plop then in a LR sadly :( So naturally, I threw them on Thrones lol

I will say that the fact we get such good Objective secured troops in regards to Plague Marines and Plague Bearers can't really be beat at all.

Plague Marines especially.

 Desubot wrote:
Also didn't help he got 56 on maelstrom 3 times (harness the warp one)

You cannot generate the same result more than once in a maelstrom battle. So you cannot get 56 three times in one game.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Also didn't help he got 56 on maelstrom 3 times (harness the warp one)

You cannot generate the same result more than once in a maelstrom battle. So you cannot get 56 three times in one game.

Well il be a monkeys uncle i didnt even see that.

Well we both have had advantageous situations because of dupes so its no biggy for the previous games

I feel like there's a Maulerfiend, Chaos Spawn Rhino Rush list just waiting to happen but I can't figure it out. I mean Plague Marines as Basic troops for your objective secured, a Pimp lord w/ Chaos Spawn, something like that.

I can def see a list running a huge rush of maulerfiends and rhinos, bike lord and spawn, maybe a DP w/ wings. Just dont know if id fill the rhinos with plague marines (personal preference) They are great at holding objectives but i feel my rush would go straight for the throat, maybe use some chosen and use cultists to capture an obj or two. Zerks would be fun to use if they didnt cost what they do. All in all though using two CADs to max out on maulers, could be really fun at that.

This would all be if i still ran CSM, I used to but since ascended to daemonhood

Obligatory plug, although a bit dated (best not bump the thread).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/599596.page

I just see Chaos moving further and further away from the whole " Heldrake" reliance.

Don't get me wrong it's a great amazing unit, but I think taking full advantage of the ability to be Battle Brothers w/ Chaos Daemons is great.

Although no one can join squads which sucks, however the ability to buff each other is still really good.

I'm really glad chaos is moving away from the helldrake, it's great and all but you would never see a list not takin it, it was everyone's go to win card, and if you didn't take it the Internet would shun you cause warp forbid should you think outside the box.