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 Badablack wrote:

I've tried Sanctic Daemonology Sorcerers with Thousand Sons and they are stellar. Gate of Infinity, the +1 invul power, and the roaming D-weapon blast are all excellent powers that compliment them well.

Could you elaborate on how you use them, please?

 Badablack wrote:
The problem with Chosen is that Havocs already do their job for less points. And why kit them out for close combat when half the codex is already dedicated CC.

This. Too many people don't realize that there is nothing stopping you from giving your havocs 4x plasmas, flamers, meltas, etc. plus the combi, and almost getting a free rhino when compared to chosen. Havocs aren't just for autocannons (and I feel like in today's meta autocannons kinda don't really do much).

The only REAL difference is the fact your Havocs take up the valuable Heavy Support slot whilst your Chosen, although more expensive, take up your Elite slot, which sadly, suffers from the lack of specialized divisions the Loyalists and other codecies might actually benefit from.

I mean what will we take instead of 4 Plasmagun Chosen, a Hellbrute with a single Plasma Cannon? =/

Termicide? There goes 110 points of Combi-Terminators you are literally THROWING to their deaths (Don't throw your terminators, especially Chaos Terminators, they will poke people, it will hurt)

I just dislike the Elite slot for Chaos in general. Mutilators are trash, Chosen are expensive, Terminators are albeit, cheap, but rather useless. We really don't have much going for us in the Elite slots these days. The best option is to just take a Decimator from Forgeworld and call it a day as you run 3 Maulerfiends + 3 Decimators.

Sanctic Terminator Sorcerers are pretty amazing w/ Obliterators an Expensive unit for sure but with GOI it's well worth it.

To bad that Chaos seems to have no access to homers .

Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

How are some of the chaos options in forgeworld? I know the decimator is pretty good but what about the rest of their forgeworld stuff? both CSM and CD

 azreal13 wrote:
Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

And that extra attack makes them a little nicer, too. I just think about them as short-range Havocs who like to get in close with the enemy. They can deal with an assault better than their counterparts in the Heavy Support section.

 Solosam47 wrote:
How are some of the chaos options in forgeworld? I know the decimator is pretty good but what about the rest of their forgeworld stuff? both CSM and CD

All the most recent forgeworld chaos units are in the Imperial Apocalypse (2013) book, so don't be confused by any lingering free rules on the FW website (theyre really really bad at taking down out of date rules)

-Chaos versions of the Stormeagle, Spartan, and Relic Predators are all pretty good. Spartan is a super-landraider for not too much more points, stormeagle is a flying landraider, and relic predators have cool variants like plasmacutioners or conversion beamers.
-Chaos Contemptor is good, if expensive (can be made very choppy, and very shooty at the same time, or super choppy or super shooty)
-Decimator is about the same as the Contemptor, but probably a little better at pure CC (has deepstrike and free flamers)
-Blood Slaughterers are amazeballs. Very cheap and very very killy, theyre the epitome of what assault walkers should be. Cheap, good armour, tons of attacks, can be taken in squads for durability, have fleet and deepstrike and rampage AND super-rage, AND a harpoon gun that lets them 'charge' the turn they arrive. Downside is that you gotta pay a berzerker tax for CSM, and they move automatically to the closet target (not really a problem when theyre in enemy lines already)
-Plague Hulk that, if youre taking a nurgle grinder, take a plague hulk instead. Pretty much the same, but a bit cheaper (and has a flamer instead of a harvester cannon).
-Blight Drones are cheap flying battlecannons. Nuff said.
-Giant Chaos spawn are pretty average monstrous creatures (T6, 4W 4+save) but boy are they cheap! For 80 points theyre pretty fantastic counter-attack units.
-Chaos Spined Beast is a load of overcosted garbage that's worse in every way to the giant spawn.
-There's some junky named daemon prices, neither of which are very good (the nurgle one maybe, but he's slow as hell)

Don't forget Zhufor, who is pretty much Kharn +1.

Or Necrosius!

You know what chaos needs, a spin off CSM that plays like evil grey knights.

Like a highly elite force of the oldest warp vets that put chosen to shame, low model count but super strong to make up the difference. A group of Horus's elite bodyguard that formed a faction or something. They can take multiple marks, new Daemon units just for that codex, maybe some super vile psychic powers, and a cultist group that is highly customizable to mimic the inquisition. Some alien slave units or something, just all sorts of crazy from the far reaches of the galaxy.

Plus special land raider variants and some access to fallen SM tech. Maybe be lead by one of the clones of Horus, or be abbodons secret weapon for his latest black crusade. Every unit can have a ML 1, very offense oriented in play style.

Honestly, if we just had legion tactics, something like rerolling 1s to hit for a round or rerolling Armor Penetrations for Iron Warriors doctrines or what have you, I'd be happy with CSM.

Right now, Having poured something in the range of 15,000 points into Daemons, with Chaos Space Marines being the inferior Chaos regiment, there is simply nothing they do that Daemons don't already do, but better =/

 azreal13 wrote:
Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

but then they cost 20 points per model rather than 18.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

And that extra attack makes them a little nicer, too. I just think about them as short-range Havocs who like to get in close with the enemy. They can deal with an assault better than their counterparts in the Heavy Support section.

2 extra attacks as they come with ubergrit. Makes for 3 times the number of base attacks, or 2 times as many when charging. It's signifigant, but combat isnt nearly as important as it use to be.

I super enjoy the Murderpack and don't think it get's enough love.

5 Helbrutes with Invisibility or Forewarning is pretty amazeballs. Add in Power Scourges and the fact you get to pick your Crazed Result is pretty amazing.I don't think it get's enough love. It's awesome with Chaos Daemons.

5 Helbrutes
3 Soul Grinders

Yesssssssssssss. It goes really well with a Daemon Bomb army that summons. I tried this out.

Flying Lash Prince
4 Heralds
Pink Horrors
Screamers
3 Soul Grinders
5 Helbrutes

I didn't even upgrade the Grinders.

 Exergy wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

but then they cost 20 points per model rather than 18.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Of course, one can always declare you're using a Black Legion CAD and make your Chosen troops, that makes them more appealing...

And that extra attack makes them a little nicer, too. I just think about them as short-range Havocs who like to get in close with the enemy. They can deal with an assault better than their counterparts in the Heavy Support section.

2 extra attacks as they come with ubergrit. Makes for 3 times the number of base attacks, or 2 times as many when charging. It's signifigant, but combat isnt nearly as important as it use to be.

This is unfortunatly true, CC just isnt important anymore i feel and its sad cause that is what i want the most. Gunline armies have had their chance, their 15 minutes of fame. time to throw a wrench in things and give CC its time to shine again. Make bezerkers something to truly be feared instead of easy targets, make all the high shooting armies work for wins and scared of what CC brings to the table. I WANT BLOOD!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is an idea, after seeing the post about someone wanting to replace CSM squads with Havocs, I thought wouldnt it be something if GW did away with god specific units ( zerks, tsons, plague marines, noise marines) and rolled them into CSM squads, so if a CSM squad takes a mark they become that marks marine varient (for example: 20 man squad takes mark of nurgle, BAM! they become 20 plague marines!) this will open up elite slots for new units of each god and still give us the specific CSM squads we know and love. most people only take them when they can make them troop choice anyways, plus it could lower the unit cost and give us more options in our army. No longer would you need lords with marks to "unlock" them.

Yeah, I mean if your kitting out your Havocs for special weapon why not just pay 3 or more points to just take Chosen at that point. It's bs we don't get something like a razorback btw.

With Telepathy being so broken Sorcerers and other units are freaking boss. I mean I did a Telepathy Spam for Psychic Shriek and Invisibility. Using the fact that you get the option of 4 Heralds of Slaanesh if you want is pretty boss.

Chaos Sorcerers w/ Sanctic and Psychic Shriek in Term Armour w/ Terminators is pretty great as well now. Sanctic is really good to now that you get a 75% chance to cast it on 1 dice with a Spell Familiar. +2 Hammer Hand, +1 Invulnerable, Gate of Infinity.

Bel'lakor is a champ with his telepathy, I am making a neww list that utilizes him and getting my other units into CC.

Does a mini deathstar termie sorc unit seem like a viable distraction while i rush CC units up the table?

My new favorite unit now is Helfist Murderpack w/ Autocannons. I love casting invisibility on this unit.

I'm trying out the new " Prospero Deathstar" w/ Ahriman, 2 Sorcerers in Term Armour and Obliterators.

Someone mentioned the heldrake is useless now that you can't allocate wounds to out of your arc of sight.

That's true, but aside from the fact that you could just fly on so that you DO see a lot of models, nothing is stopping you from placing the template wherever you want.

That means, if needs be, you can angle yourself so that only certain models (sergeant, warlord, special weapons, etc) are in your arc, then place the template to cover way more models than what are in your arc. Your wounds are still wounds - they just get allocated to the models in the arc, ensuring those special weapons are dead or forcing several Look Out Sir rolls to be made, with potentially lethal effects.

By the way I've been doing a Slaanesh prince daemonette summoner plus rhino rush and maulerfiend and spawn rush and it's been working like a charm. I wish I could add troop noisemarines, but I can't afford the chaos lord.

Yeah Maulerfiends are insanely good now and I super enjoy them . I need to figure out a easily convertible model for them.

I love the Maulerfiend model as is.

There. I said it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I love the Maulerfiend model as is.

There. I said it.

We all do!

It looks like a dinobot.

Hollismason wrote:
It looks like a dinobot.

For the second time today, I find myself in a position of wondering if a post is arguing for or against something?

Dinobots are awesome.

I like the Heldrake loads too.

 Spellbound wrote:

By the way I've been doing a Slaanesh prince daemonette summoner plus rhino rush and maulerfiend and spawn rush and it's been working like a charm. I wish I could add troop noisemarines, but I can't afford the chaos lord.

This has been working pretty well for me too. I take my rhino marines as melta+combi melta + 3 regulars and all swap for bolt pistols. I recon though that you could just buy some elite noise marines, the only difference is they aren't objective secured which is sucky but not super bad. Get 5 man squads with a doom siren and a lightning claw could do some good damage.

Also seconding dinobots as awesome (well the mauler at least). Heldrakes are still good but if you are playing spawn rush then another 5 nurgle spawn (180) is better than the drake (170).

Yeah, I love the looks with the cables under the ripped flesh So much fun to paint those.

I also love Forgefiends and Maulerfiends as units in game.

Hmmm I didn't think of chaos sorcerers with sanctic.... That's a very good idea considering with spell familiars we pretty much get 2 dice with zero drawbacks from rolling possible doubles.

Does anybody run flamers of tzeentch? I want to make some themed god lists for CD.

I summon them but don't purchase them in the initial list, they are to expensive for my taste but not for summoning as its great to summon them on top of someone and be like " Here, this is for you"

I played a game earlier with the Chaos Sanctic Sorcerer w/ Oblits and just bounced them around. It was rather nice. I liked it. I think Space Marines have a version of that with Tigurius and GravCenturions.

Frequently. They're very good at what they do.

I usually just take a minimum size unit and DS them in on top of some backfield objective camper, unless you get unlucky with scatter (which there are ways to mitigate with Daemons of course) then they can erase many of the typical units used for these purposes in a single shooting phase.

I've also had good success with them just using their mobility to take advantage of any bottle necks that may develop, just recently I had a min unit wipe out a whole unit of DE Wyches and their Archon after they'd become bunched up after winning an assault.

They're also surprisingly durable at T4, 2W and 5++ rerolling 1s, they're not going to tank huge amounts of shooting, but your opponent will need to mean it if he wants rid of them.

It's easy to fall into the trap of comparing them how they used to be, but if you take them as they are, they offer some real utility.

Nobody wants to assault them either!