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So I was playing a game of 7th edition yesterday, I had Ezekiel (ML 3 psyker) and my opponent had a ML 2 chaos sorcerer.

It was the 2nd turn and my opponent rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and on the perils table rolled a 6 on the perils table. He passed the leadership test and became unbelievable powerful. Luckily he wasn't in combat although he did get into combat with Ezekiel in the next turn after the powers wore off.

Then it came to my psychic phase in the 3rd turn and lo and behold I rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and also rolled a 6 on the perils table. We were both dumbstruck at this point, him even more so when I passed the leadership test. In the ensuing challenge I killed his warlord without really trying to and it eventually won me the game.

Is it just me or are the benefits for rolling high on the perils of the warp too good in 7th edition? I don't see why we should be benefited for it with so many good special rules when we failed at the rolling in the first place. I can accept having something where nothing bad happens but not becoming extremely overpowered.

How about the following for a perils table instead:

1) The psyker is removed as a casualty. In addition, place a large blast marker over the psyker. All models underneath immediately suffer one S8 AP2 wound.
2) The psyker is removed as a casualty. In addition, place a small blast marker over the psyker. All models underneath immediately suffer one S6 AP4 wound.
3) The psyker suffers D3 wounds with no armour saves allowed and the instant death special rule. If the psyker survives the psycic power they were attemptiong to cast becomes engrained on their mind and it is the only power they may cast for the remainder of the game.
4) The psyker suffers D3 wounds with no armour saves allowed and discards the power he was trying to cast and cannot use it for the rest of the game.
5) The psyker suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed. Leadershp test, if passed no additional effects. If failed the both players immediately lose D3 warp charges.
6) Leadership test, if passed nothing happens. If failed psyker suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed.

Too complicated, not awesome enough.

Why not return perils to the simpler, less random way it used to be.

The amount of extra rolling that table added hurt my brain to read. The old perils was fine; it represented any number of things happening to the psyker that forced the player to 'Forge the Narrative', instead of being told explicitly what is happening through a silly table.

So much simpler to simply lose a wound if you perils. No randomness, easier to resolve, and makes sense as to whats happening to the psyker.

Yeah, but things like the MoT and Ghosthelms should protect you against Perils.

Your chart is a massive nerf to Psykers, almost to the point of unusability. Half your options will instantly kill almost every Psyker in the game, (Seriously, how many have Eternal Warrior without Endurance?), and Psykers with only one Mastery Level can't really afford to lose a power. (Like they do in a third of your options.)
As an Ork player, I know that this chart would make Weirdboyz a negative impact to my army. As a Space Wolves/Marine player I can say the same.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah, but things like the MoT and Ghosthelms should protect you against Perils.

I never said they shouldn't.

Also, keep in mind that rolling a double 6 followed by another 6 is one in 216. The odds of that happening twice are one in 46656.

The regular chart is already brutally punishing, you don't need to make it worse.

The only good roll is 6, you guys were just incredibly lucky

I think that the current chart is actually pretty bad, since most results can be ignored with a leadership check and one gives a better buff than a lot of blessings.

That and my friend had a GK LR get a peril that ended up giving it a 3++ and fleshbane hurricane bolters.

You sir must have never witnessed the wrath of rolling double 6's in fantasy. it is way worse. Be thankful

When you Perils, you suffer a number of wounds equal to the warp charge cost of the power. Invulnerable saves only. Excess wounds spill over to the unit if the psyker dies. Done.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think that the current chart is actually pretty bad, since most results can be ignored with a leadership check and one gives a better buff than a lot of blessings.

That and my friend had a GK LR get a peril that ended up giving it a 3++ and fleshbane hurricane bolters.

Only 2 results (5 and 6) ignore bad stuff on leadership checks.

4 out of 6 are bad, of the ones that you have to do leadership on for those (1 and 2), the leadership only keeps worse things from happening , they're still bad

So no thats not "most results ignoring on leadership checks"

Only one gives a buff, if you pass.

Getting lucky rolling sixes doesnt mean its bad.

You'll change your mind when you're rolling 1's instead of 6s.

TimmyIsChaos wrote:
So I was playing a game of 7th edition yesterday, I had Ezekiel (ML 3 psyker) and my opponent had a ML 2 chaos sorcerer.

It was the 2nd turn and my opponent rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and on the perils table rolled a 6 on the perils table. He passed the leadership test and became unbelievable powerful. Luckily he wasn't in combat although he did get into combat with Ezekiel in the next turn after the powers wore off.

Then it came to my psychic phase in the 3rd turn and lo and behold I rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and also rolled a 6 on the perils table. We were both dumbstruck at this point, him even more so when I passed the leadership test. In the ensuing challenge I killed his warlord without really trying to and it eventually won me the game.

Is it just me or are the benefits for rolling high on the perils of the warp too good in 7th edition? I don't see why we should be benefited for it with so many good special rules when we failed at the rolling in the first place. I can accept having something where nothing bad happens but not becoming extremely overpowered.

The odds of what happened to you happening in any given game are actually quite low. I don't think the Perils table is overpowered just because you both managed to roll double 6's and then another 6. I could roll all 5's and 6's while shooting lasguns at terminators, and my opponent could roll enough 1's to destroy the squad. So my dirt cheap guardsmen have wiped out a very expensive termie squad. Unlikely, but possible. This doesn't make guardsmen overpowered. That's an extreme example, but the point still stands. Saying "when I roll really, really well with this rule, I absolutely stomp my opponent," applies to most rules in the game.

 fallinq wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:
So I was playing a game of 7th edition yesterday, I had Ezekiel (ML 3 psyker) and my opponent had a ML 2 chaos sorcerer.

It was the 2nd turn and my opponent rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and on the perils table rolled a 6 on the perils table. He passed the leadership test and became unbelievable powerful. Luckily he wasn't in combat although he did get into combat with Ezekiel in the next turn after the powers wore off.

Then it came to my psychic phase in the 3rd turn and lo and behold I rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and also rolled a 6 on the perils table. We were both dumbstruck at this point, him even more so when I passed the leadership test. In the ensuing challenge I killed his warlord without really trying to and it eventually won me the game.

Is it just me or are the benefits for rolling high on the perils of the warp too good in 7th edition? I don't see why we should be benefited for it with so many good special rules when we failed at the rolling in the first place. I can accept having something where nothing bad happens but not becoming extremely overpowered.

The odds of what happened to you happening in any given game are actually quite low. I don't think the Perils table is overpowered just because you both managed to roll double 6's and then another 6. I could roll all 5's and 6's while shooting lasguns at terminators, and my opponent could roll enough 1's to destroy the squad. So my dirt cheap guardsmen have wiped out a very expensive termie squad. Unlikely, but possible. This doesn't make guardsmen overpowered. That's an extreme example, but the point still stands. Saying "when I roll really, really well with this rule, I absolutely stomp my opponent," applies to most rules in the game.

It might have been very very lucky and unlikely ever to happen again in a game I play, and maybe my changes are a little harsh but the point remains that you should be getting a massive buff from suffering perils of the warp. It's called 'perils' for a reason.

Someone up there mentioned fantasy where the miscast table has no buffs. This is what is should be like in 40k too I feel.

Yea, the first 7th game I played, I periled 3 times and rolled two 1's and a 2.

It was not fun

Leadership tests are somewhat hard to really justify something being bad though. For LD10 there's about a 8.34% chance to actually fail, and this is after rolling double 6's where it used to be a failure for the spell on double 6's and taking a wound.

Now the results are
1.) Less than 9% chance to lose the psyker and deal D6 hits to his unit at S6 AP1.
2.) One wound lost and one spell at random.
3.) Losing 1 wound with the possibility of losing dice, which is dependent on how many dice you initially had and how many are left to consider how bad that is. Losing d3 dice when you have none left isn't really a negative.
4.) Loses 1 wound.
5.) LD test or wound
6.) LD test or wound, and a bunch of bonuses along with it.

so 1, 5, and 6 take no wounds and no damage on a LD test which is just over 8%.
2, 3, and 4 don't test and cause 1 wound each.
so if you manage to peril you have another 54.2% chance to get wounded 45.8% to avoid wounding and even a chance to get a significant boost for turn. Overall it's better than the last system for the Psyker.

I don't like the stuff about invulnerable saves only. Probably cause my orkses don't have invulnerable save other than kff at all.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Leadership tests are somewhat hard to really justify something being bad though. For LD10 there's about a 8.34% chance to actually fail, and this is after rolling double 6's where it used to be a failure for the spell on double 6's and taking a wound.

Now the results are
1.) Less than 9% chance to lose the psyker and deal D6 hits to his unit at S6 AP1.
2.) One wound lost and one spell at random.
3.) Losing 1 wound with the possibility of losing dice, which is dependent on how many dice you initially had and how many are left to consider how bad that is. Losing d3 dice when you have none left isn't really a negative.
4.) Loses 1 wound.
5.) LD test or wound
6.) LD test or wound, and a bunch of bonuses along with it.

so 1, 5, and 6 take no wounds and no damage on a LD test which is just over 8%.
2, 3, and 4 don't test and cause 1 wound each.
so if you manage to peril you have another 54.2% chance to get wounded 45.8% to avoid wounding and even a chance to get a significant boost for turn. Overall it's better than the last system for the Psyker.

Except a roll of 1 still deals a wound even if you pass the leadership test, the leadership test on 1's is just to see if you die instantly and take your unit with you

If you peril you have a 67% chance to take a wound with no saves allowed (FNP being the exception) and a 33% chance not to.

Rolls of 1-4 cause wounds automatically, no preventing it, only 5 and 6 can you roll leadership to not get a wound

1 still causes a wound if you pass the Ld test.
Also remember: Perils are MASSIVELY more common then they were in 6th, for Psyker-heavy armies. Sure, maybe if you're rolling 1-2 dice for that WC1 power 'cause it's not that important. Once you roll three dice, the odds of perils are equal to last edition, and with 4+ dice you've got greater odds.
And, with the way DTW works now, you're going to have to roll more than 1-2 dice on important spells. So Perils is going to crop up a ton more.
Especially if you are using either Daemonology chart and aren't Daemons or Grey Knights. (As an Ork player, I can assure you that Sanctic powers are far more useful... I also usually perils to death by my third spell.)

Glanced over the first part of 1 then. Still, it's more of a chance to avoid a wound then previously.

Regardless, I still think it's a bad chart based on how many times you'll have to roll without even factoring in the spell.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Glanced over the first part of 1 then. Still, it's more of a chance to avoid a wound then previously.

Regardless, I still think it's a bad chart based on how many times you'll have to roll without even factoring in the spell.

I disagree, you peril much more often this edition, throwing out multiple dice, as opposed to always just 2 for a leadership test

I've had Coteaz Perils three times in a game and become an unstoppable juggernaut of doing nothing while he hanged out with my Grav Cents.

The Ordo Xenos inquisitor beside him hurt himself when he suffered from the warp, though.

Failing that LD10 test just doesn't happen that often...

 fallinq wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:
So I was playing a game of 7th edition yesterday, I had Ezekiel (ML 3 psyker) and my opponent had a ML 2 chaos sorcerer.

It was the 2nd turn and my opponent rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and on the perils table rolled a 6 on the perils table. He passed the leadership test and became unbelievable powerful. Luckily he wasn't in combat although he did get into combat with Ezekiel in the next turn after the powers wore off.

Then it came to my psychic phase in the 3rd turn and lo and behold I rolled double 6s in the psychic phase and also rolled a 6 on the perils table. We were both dumbstruck at this point, him even more so when I passed the leadership test. In the ensuing challenge I killed his warlord without really trying to and it eventually won me the game.

Is it just me or are the benefits for rolling high on the perils of the warp too good in 7th edition? I don't see why we should be benefited for it with so many good special rules when we failed at the rolling in the first place. I can accept having something where nothing bad happens but not becoming extremely overpowered.

"when I roll really, really well with this rule, I absolutely stomp my opponent," applies to most rules in the game.

CRAZY TALK! It's clearly the game's fault for having those rules.

It isn't how rough the perils are, it is how frequently you get them. If you are casting Warp Charge 2 or 3 spells you will peril multiple times in a game, my Chaos Sorcerer kills himself 50 percent of the time now.

 CrosisDePurger wrote:
It isn't how rough the perils are, it is how frequently you get them. If you are casting Warp Charge 2 or 3 spells you will peril multiple times in a game, my Chaos Sorcerer kills himself 50 percent of the time now.

That's what you get for having more powerful psychic powers.

Power:Risk

While the power to risk ratio for perils in and of itself is fine, the issue is with the randomness of the table once you get to it. I get that rolling well is generally a benefit and often reflected in rules, going from 1-5 being negative to 6 being a very strong positive is not good game design.

I stand by my earlier statement that the simplest, easiest, and most balanced way to do perils is the old method of eating a wound with no saves. Its predicable, fair, and doesn't slow the game down with rolling on a table, rolling a leadership check, rolling a number of wounds, and the resolving those wounds like one of the option on the table currently does.

Also, nice sig BrotherOfBone.

 Blacksails wrote:
While the power to risk ratio for perils in and of itself is fine, the issue is with the randomness of the table once you get to it. I get that rolling well is generally a benefit and often reflected in rules, going from 1-5 being negative to 6 being a very strong positive is not good game design.

I stand by my earlier statement that the simplest, easiest, and most balanced way to do perils is the old method of eating a wound with no saves. Its predicable, fair, and doesn't slow the game down with rolling on a table, rolling a leadership check, rolling a number of wounds, and the resolving those wounds like one of the option on the table currently does.

Also, nice sig BrotherOfBone.

Thanks, my Black Templars are great, aren't they?

I liked 5th Ed perils. 1 wound with only Invulnerable saves allowed, with successes being rerolled.

 Blacksails wrote:
I stand by my earlier statement that the simplest, easiest, and most balanced way to do perils is the old method of eating a wound with no saves. Its predicable, fair, and doesn't slow the game down with rolling on a table, rolling a leadership check, rolling a number of wounds, and the resolving those wounds like one of the option on the table currently does.

I wholeheartedly agree. The designers of this game have gotten way too chart happy recently. I love a bit of unpredictability in the game, or in things like mysterious objectives/terrain, but every step of the game should not be bogged down in random charts. It slows the game down and lessens the impact of player decisions and tactics.