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Not too bad for 135 points.

135 points isn't too shabby (up in the corner of the page for people that didn't notice). Guess I could do what Anpu42 said and pod him in with a couple of the new axe/shield dreads.

Auswin's right, this codex is scary... AND I LOVE IT!

 TheKbob wrote:
Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.

And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.

It's an absolute joke to make a "new" Ragnar out of bits from the Space Wolves Pack.
And why do you need a box of Wulfen if they're not a unit choice?

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
135 points isn't too shabby (up in the corner of the page for people that didn't notice). Guess I could do what Anpu42 said and pod him in with a couple of the new axe/shield dreads.

Auswin's right, this codex is scary... AND I LOVE IT!

Yeah I did notice the price. It's basically just going to be a bullet magnet that never reaches combat, but maybe will sacrifice itself sufficiently to let something else get in to combat.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Curseborn prophecy, really?
That sounds silly to me.

The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.

But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.

Well, he is pretty cheap for his stats.

So there are 3 scenarios

A) He dies, but allows another unit to engage the enemy, thus not letting the 135 points go entirely to waste

B) He manages to get into combat with something important and tears the enemy apart, thus earning his 135 points

C) He dies horribly; get's immobilized and mocked; tarpitted, etc, thus wasting the 135 points.

So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.

Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!

Have we seen the Psychic Disciplines or Warlord traits?

It is entirely possible that there might be something which makes Drop Pods a bit...interesting and would really beef up Murderfang.

 Kirasu wrote:
So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.

Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!

I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.

A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.

Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.

Wait, he has Furious Charge, but his weapons are a set strength? That... I guess just in case he loses both Murderclaws?

 Auswin wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.

Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!

I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.

A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.

Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.

It could have 2000 attacks and it wouldnt matter because its AV12 with no fleet.. CC dreads with base movement don't work, and haven't worked since pretty much the inception of 40k.. Furioso is also pretty terrible, at least the DC dread has Fleet. AP2 only matters against 2+ saves, so against vast majority of units I much rather have blood talons. In either case, won't matter since it's slow and easy to kill.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Curseborn prophecy, really?
That sounds silly to me.

The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.

But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.

Well, he is pretty cheap for his stats.

So there are 3 scenarios

A) He dies, but allows another unit to engage the enemy, thus not letting the 135 points go entirely to waste

B) He manages to get into combat with something important and tears the enemy apart, thus earning his 135 points

C) He dies horribly; get's immobilized and mocked; tarpitted, etc, thus wasting the 135 points.

I feel like B is almost never going to happen. Either C, enemy gets a lucky shot (you only need a 4+ on an AP1 weapon to make it useless) and that's it, or A, it takes a few shots to kill it, thus it takes some heat off other things.

I know that's not "bad", I would just like it if these close combat monsters actually, ya know, had a chance of getting in to combat outside of your enemy being ignorant or just very unlucky.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Auswin wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.

Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!

I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.

A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.

Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.

It could have 2000 attacks and it wouldnt matter because its AV12 with no fleet.. CC dreads with base movement don't work, and haven't worked since pretty much the inception of 40k.. Furioso is also pretty terrible, at least the DC dread has Fleet. AP2 only matters against 2+ saves, so against vast majority of units I much rather have blood talons. In either case, won't matter since it's slow and easy to kill.

Yes if you walk it across the field and/or give in no support. I have been able to get most of my dreads into Close Combat.

 streamdragon wrote:
Wait, he has Furious Charge, but his weapons are a set strength? That... I guess just in case he loses both Murderclaws?

Don’t all walkers get Hammer of Wrath these days? Would Furious Charge affect that?

Ward for the ward god!

They way the new assault rules work i would assume he is a camping objective protector or counter charge unit for whatever feels it is neceesary to get close enough. Maybe if dreads could assault out of a pod instead of having to wait to apperntly take their seatbelts off it would be better.

 Nevelon wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Wait, he has Furious Charge, but his weapons are a set strength? That... I guess just in case he loses both Murderclaws?

Don’t all walkers get Hammer of Wrath these days? Would Furious Charge affect that?

I don't think so. Pretty sure HoW specifically says "base strength".

I am more interested to see the rules for the storm shield Dread, as that one seems to be the one I'm most likely to use (as it has less chance of just getting blown up the moment my opponent has a clean shot at it).

I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.

To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.

It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.

You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.

Yeah, giving him support just means other things might make it in to combat while he dies instead of him just dying by himself, the end result is still him dying. Unless your opponent really has no clue how easy he is to kill and how much damage he'll do if they don't kill him.

 Bulldogging wrote:
I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.

To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.

It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.

You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.

Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:
Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers

Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters

The Murderfang is your 1st Priority?

 Auswin wrote:
WAAAAAAAARD!

Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.

Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.

Ugh... this codex scares me.

It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble

I'm glad that Murderfang, for all its insane rage, still has the tactical acumen to effectively use a Searchlight.

 Auswin wrote:
WAAAAAAAARD!

Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.

Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.

Ugh... this codex scares me.

Yeah, as a Nids player, I can see the major value of using Murderfang as a fire magnet. Between him, my TWC and my Wolf Lord's Termie retinue, my troops should be able to march onto objectives with ease.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm glad that Murderfang, for all its insane rage, still has the tactical acumen to effectively use a Searchlight.

Yeah what's the point of that? He's probably never going to be able to shoot anything that far out, but at least it lights up a unit for the rest of the army to shoot.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.

To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.

It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.

You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.

Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:
Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers

Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters

The Murderfang is your 1st Priority?

Given what you describe sounds like about 3000pts, Murderfang might not be priority #1 given it consists of less than 5% of your points, but for whatever anti-tank weapons you have lying around he's high enough priority that he won't get in to combat.

That's the thing, he's not that hard to kill that he needs to be priority #1, it's not like a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight or whatever that you have to throw a ton of firepower at to bring down before he reaches combat.

There's a reason people think Dreadnoughts suck, especially close combat Dreadnoughts. They're just too easy to kill.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm glad that Murderfang, for all its insane rage, still has the tactical acumen to effectively use a Searchlight.

Yeah what's the point of that? He's probably never going to be able to shoot anything that far out, but at least it lights up a unit for the rest of the army to shoot.

I acts like a laser pointer to see what enemy he is going for.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.

To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.

It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.

You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.

Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:

Spoiler:

Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers

Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters

The Murderfang is your 1st Priority?

Given what you describe sounds like about 3000pts, Murderfang might not be priority #1 given it consists of less than 5% of your points, but for whatever anti-tank weapons you have lying around he's high enough priority that he won't get in to combat.

That's the thing, he's not that hard to kill that he needs to be priority #1, it's not like a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight or whatever that you have to throw a ton of firepower at to bring down before he reaches combat.

There's a reason people think Dreadnoughts suck, especially close combat Dreadnoughts. They're just too easy to kill.

Yes they are easy to kill, but I have seen to many people just throw one out there and him go.
Even if I want to 5 starting pods one a 2k list if it take more than one unit to take him down that is firepower not pointed at other things. Putting the 3++ Venerable Dread and the Murderfang along with Wolf Guard Terminators in your face on Turn 1 should give me a good chance of 1/3 of your available firepower going at him.
I do this now with my Dreadnaught supported Loganwing. With the proper use of terrain [Including my own Pods] I can cut Available Firepower in half if not by a 1/3.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
WAAAAAAAARD!

Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.

Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.

Ugh... this codex scares me.

It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble

Until it drop pods in, heavy flames the Raider killing a bunch of them and possibly exploding the transport in the process.

FWIW, 10 Wyches in a Raider with Haywire is 180 pts. A Murderfang in a Drop Pod is 170.

I have a feeling the dread's stormshields are only going to be 5++ or 4++, at best. Considering Contemptors have 5++ against shooting and they use older (and therefore better, in 40k land) cybernetics in their invulnerable saves than Storm Shields means I doubt we'll be seeing 3++ dreads running around any time soon.

Murderfang does look scary, though. It'll be high up on the 'melta in the face' list for sure.

Crazyterran wrote:
I have a feeling the dread's stormshields are only going to be 5++ or 4++, at best. Considering Contemptors have 5++ against shooting and they use older (and therefore better, in 40k land) cybernetics in their invulnerable saves than Storm Shields means I doubt we'll be seeing 3++ dreads running around any time soon.

Murderfang does look scary, though. It'll be high up on the 'melta in the face' list for sure.

Then it would not be a Storm Shield.

Wait, they don't remember his name? Can't they just ask Bjorn? "Oh yeah, that's Steve Ticklefingers, he was the pack clown back in the day. No one could short sheet a wolf bunk like Steverino! Now back to my nap."

Fluff aside,

DA + SW is looking pretty good...

Azreal+Wolf priest with 14 bloodclaws in the new transport.

Murderfang escorted by a DA PFG.

 Auswin wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
WAAAAAAAARD!

Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.

Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.

Ugh... this codex scares me.

It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble

Until it drop pods in, heavy flames the Raider killing a bunch of them and possibly exploding the transport in the process.

FWIW, 10 Wyches in a Raider with Haywire is 180 pts. A Murderfang in a Drop Pod is 170.

This comparison would probably fit better back in 5th edition.. now it's just "cc unit that dies to everything" and "slow cc unit". We can compare the murder fang to bad units all day long. .doesn't make it more useful tho