TheKbob wrote:
Melee without EW is awful. Losing bear lord is awful. Ragnar being derpy is awful. There's a lot more bad than good. It continues the trend of bland, vanilla releases and selling you chocolate sauce and sprinkles later to get your flavor back.

Every way I used to run my Wolves is done. No more Logan bombs, no more superior 210-220 GH squads, no more bear lords. No more buckets of Ragnar attacks. Long Fangs appear to be stunted molars now. At least Lone Wolves are still good, but Arjac losing EW too? Geez...

Ugly flyers, childish new models, and killing old strategies and armies. Good show, GW. And assault blows, stop trying to up sell raged out bloodclaws in a flyer. If it dies, you remove all the claws and are left with a bunch of blood. Never seen this idea work in all of 6E, unless I'm missing something mind blowing in 7E.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Melee without EW is awful. Losing bear lord is awful. Ragnar being derpy is awful. There's a lot more bad than good. It continues the trend of bland, vanilla releases and selling you chocolate sauce and sprinkles later to get your flavor back.

Every way I used to run my Wolves is done. No more Logan bombs, no more superior 210-220 GH squads, no more bear lords. No more buckets of Ragnar attacks. Long Fangs appear to be stunted molars now. At least Lone Wolves are still good, but Arjac losing EW too? Geez...

Ugly flyers, childish new models, and killing old strategies and armies. Good show, GW. And assault blows, stop trying to up sell raged out bloodclaws in a flyer. If it dies, you remove all the claws and are left with a bunch of blood. Never seen this idea work in all of 6E, unless I'm missing something mind blowing in 7E.

So basically, they removed all the cheap BS from the army, and now you can't play it?

As for flyers as transports, given that vehicles in general, and flyers in particular, are more durable in 7th, I don't see much of a problem with the SW flyers being effective transports. As has already been said before, AA is becoming a dying trend, as most of it is not that effective, so really, the biggest worry is other flyers, and the puppy flyer is pretty effective at getting rid of those. A lot of people just don't want to take the risk for the reward.

 pretre wrote:
So you lose standard and wulfen, but gain a WGBL for 10 points.

Haljin wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Uniquely equipable termies that in general cost only 3pts more than their counter-parts (makes sense with counter-attack)

Why do people keep making that argument?

It's not like we have chapter tactics and counter-attack. While I understand not all chapter tactics are useful (for terminators in particular), it's not like we only gain on that deal. Counter-attack is also somewhat situational - you still want to be the one assaulting.

 Crimson wrote:
Grey hunters were ridiculously undercosted before. Stop crying about a deserved nerf to an OP unit.

Haljin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So you lose standard and wulfen, but gain a WGBL for 10 points.

Gain? This means the WG in squad costs 24 points now *since you upgrade a GH), where he was 18 before. That's before any upgrades. The only thing that helps with is to get more special weapons, since he counts as a model in the squad now. But I actually liked the old dilemma of "Ld 9/Special meelee weapon or Ld8 and second gun else you don't fit in 90% of transports".

Mind you, I'm not saying this codex sucks, although I do not fully agree with the direction it took the army in.

 TheKbob wrote:
Id rather have:

10 GH, PG, PG, MotW, Standard, Rhino or Pod for 220. Was (and is) more efficient and made the Grey Hunter and the best tactical, which fits the fluff. Now they're just whatever, just another marine. And standard tacticals don't live long as is unless you leverage combat tactics and maximize either survival (iron hands), lethality (imperial fists) ,or speed (white scars).

I don't want another Tactical Marine. I want Grey Hunters.

Haljin wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Uniquely equipable termies that in general cost only 3pts more than their counter-parts (makes sense with counter-attack)

Why do people keep making that argument? It's not like we have chapter tactics and counter-attack. While I understand not all chapter tactics are useful (for terminators in particular), it's not like we only gain on that deal. Counter-attack is also somewhat situational - you still want to be the one assaulting.

 Crimson wrote:
Grey hunters were ridiculously undercosted before. Stop crying about a deserved nerf to an OP unit.

Deadshot wrote:A complete translation of the unit entries!

Important information is laid out in Green if it relates to new or exciting stuff. Stuff in Red] is bad news!

Deadshot wrote:Grey Hunters
5-10 per unit, 14ppm

Wargear
Power Armour
Bolt Pistol
Bolter (Grey Hunter Only)
Grenades
CCW (Wolf Guard Pack Leader Only)

Special rules
Counterattack
ATSKNF
Acute Senses


CCW are 2ppm
1 per squad may take a power weapon at 15ppm or Power fist at 25ppm
One GH can replace his Bolt Pistol for a plasma pistol 15ppm
For every 5 models, one may take a Special weapon.
One GH may become a WG Pack Leader 15pts
1 GH per detachment may take what I can only assume is a Wolf Banner/Standard. Can't make it out properly.
The WGPL may take weapons from the Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons lists and may take Melta Bombs.
The WGPL may exchange his BP, CCW, PA and Grenades for TDA, Stormbolter and Power Weapon.
A WGT Pack Leader may take only from the Terminator Weapons 15pts
May take a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod or Stormwolf Assault Craft

Deadshot wrote:Dreadnought 95pts

Wargear
MM
Power Fist with Built in Storm Bolter
Searchlight

Can take from Dreadnought weapons list.
Can swap PF for
Wolf Claw (retain SB) 5pts
Missile Launcher 10pts
Twin Linked Autocannon 15pts
Can swap SB for Heavy Flamer 10pts
Take Extra Armour 10pts
Smoke Launchers 5pts
Can upgrade to Venerable Status 25pts
One Venerable Dreadnought (must be Venerable, one per army) can swap their MM and PF+SB for the Axe of Fenris and Blizzard Shield. 25pts
May take a Drop Pod

Next is Bjorn.

Deadshot wrote:Bjorn

220pts, Saga of Majesty.

Wargear
Assault Cannon
Smoke Launchers
Searchlight

Special Rules
Venerable
Adds 1 to Steal the Initiative
5+ Invulnerable Save

options
Can swap Assault Cannon for
Plasma or Helfrost Cannon for free
TL Lascannon for 5pts.

Relic: "True Claw?"
Str 10
AP 2
Master Crafted, Shred

Drop Pod option.

Deadshot wrote:

Harald Deathwolf.

190pts base

Wargear

Power Armour
Frost Axe
Bolt Pistol
Grenades
Storm Shield
Thunderwolf Mount. Apparently TW are now Wargear.

Special Rules

Counterattack
Outflank
Independent Character
Acute Senses
ATSKNF

Space Wolf units with the Unit Type Beasts or Cavalry can use his Ld value while within 12" of him.

Saga of the Wolf

Can take up to 2 Fenrisian Wolves for 8ppm

Relic: Mantle of King Ice Trolls (Literal translation).
More logical translation= Mantle of the King of the Ice Trolls

Makes Harald Deathwolf immune to the effects of Pyromancy Psychic Powers and Flamer Weapons as detailed in Warhammer 40, 000: The Rules



Wolf Scouts

Wargear
Scout Armour
Bolter
Bolt Pistol
Grenades
Power Armour for WGPL

Special Rules
Counterattack
Acute Senses
Infiltrate
Scouts
Move Through Cover
ATSKNF

5-10 Scouts per unit, 14ppm
Can take Camo Cloaks for 2ppm
One model may become WGPL for 10ppm
WGPL may take Ranged and Melee Weapons and Melta Bombs
Any Scout can swap their Bolter for a Shotgun or CCW for free, or a Sniper Rifle for 1ppm
Up to 2 Scouts may swap their Bolter for a Plasma Pistol or Power Weapon for 15ppm per weapon.
One Scout may swap his Bolter for a Heavy or Special Weapon.

Deadshot wrote:

Blood Claws
5-15 Blood Claws, 12ppm

Wargear
Power Armour
BP
CCW
Grenades

Special Rules
ATSKNF
Acute Senses
Counterattack
Rage

Options

One may swap BP for Plasma Pistol 15pts
One may swap their CCW for a Power Weapon (15pts) or Power Fist (25pts)
One Blood Claw may take a Special Weapon and if the squad numbers 15 models, another Blood Claw may take one too.
One Blood Claw upgrade to WGPL for 10pts
May take Melee and Ranged weapons and Melta Bombs (5pts)
May swap all his gear for TDA, Power Weapon and Stormbolter, and then may take only from the Terminator Weapons for 15pts
Squad may take Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod or Stormwolf Assault Craft


Skyclaws

5-10 Skyclaws, 15ppm


Wargear
Power Armour
BP
CCW
Grenades
Jump Pack

Special Rules
ATSKNF
Acute Senses
Counterattack
Rage (Skyclaws Only)

Options
2 Skyclaws may swap their Bolt Pistols for
Flamer 5pts
Meltagun 10pts
Plasma Gun or Pistol 15pts
One Skyclaw may swap his CCW for a
Power Weapon 15pts
Power Fist 25pts
One may upgrade to a Wolf Guard Sky Leader
May take from Ranged and Melee Weapons
May take Melta Bombs for 5pts
No option to remove Jump Packs or get a transport of any kind.

Deadshot wrote:

Wolf Guard 90pts base
4 WG, 1 WGPL

Wargear
Wargear
Power Armour
BP
CCW
Grenades

Special Rules
ATSKNF
Acute Senses
Counterattack


Options
+5 Wolf Guard 18ppm
Any model may swap their Bolter for a CCW for free (mix and match allowed)
Any model may take from Ranged and Melee weapons (mix and match allowed)
Any model may have Melta Bombs for 5ppm

The unit may have Jump Packs for 3ppm or Bikes for 7ppm!!!
May take a Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod or Stormwolf Assault Craft OR any of the Land Raiders
NO OPTION FOR TERMINATOR ARMOUR. POSSIBLE IT IS NOW A SEPERATE UNIT

Deadshot wrote:Long Fangs 30pts base

1 Long Fang
1 Long Fang Ancient (sergeant)

Wargear
Bolt Pistol
CCW
Grenades
Power Armour

Special Rules
Counterattack
Acute Senses
Split Fire
ATSKNF


Options
+4 Long Fangs 15ppm
Ancient may swap his pistol or Chainsword for a Power Weapon or Plasma Pistol (15pts) or Power Fist 25pts
Ancient may have Melta Bombs 5pts
Any Long Fang can have Heavy Weapons and Ancient can have a Special weapon.
One Long Fang can be upgraded to a WGPL for 10pts (only use for the awkward 5th Long Fang I think) for 10pts
May take Melee and Ranged weapons and Melta Bombs (5pts)
May swap all his gear for TDA, Power Weapon and Stormbolter, and then may take only from the Terminator Weapons 15pts
Squad may take Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod or Stormwolf Assault Craft

Deadshot wrote:Logan Grimnar. Unknown base cost. Lord of War

Wargear
Terminator Armour
Stormbolter
Belt of Russ

Saga of Majesty

Special Rules
Eternal Warrior
Independent Character
Acute Senses
Counterattack
Stubborn
ATSKNF

May take Stormrider at +70pts

Relics
Axe of Morkai

Grimnar may elect to use the Axe of Morkai one handed or Two Handed. He may freely choose which attack is going to be (ie, can choose 3x 1 handed and 1x 2 handed). This decision must be made before any blows are struck.

1 hand----2 handed
Rg -
Str +2 --- x2
AP 3 ---- 2
Melee ----Melee, 2 handed, Unwieldy.


Stormrider

While riding Stormrider, Logan may move 12" in the movement phase. Stormrider itself has a 4+ Invulnerable Save. All Penetrating Hits against Stormrider count instead as Glancing Hits. Grimnar loses its special rule Deep Strike (which is given by his Terminator armor) can not join another unit or be joined by Independent Characters. While riding Stormrider, Logan may make an additional 4 Attacks at Str 5, AP- with the "Steely?" Special Rule. "This may provide an additional motion during combat to Join?" I'm thinking it means he has additional charge range but none is specified.


Psychic Powers

Primaris, Warp Charge 1

Witchfire with the following profile
Rg 18"
Str 7
AP-
Assault 3, Shock

Shock: Rolls of 6 to Hit automatically cause 2 more hits, unless Snap Firing.

1- Name Unknown, Warp Charge 1

This is a Blessing that targets the caster and his unit. For the remainder of the turn, the Psyker and his unit are Obscured.

2- Wrath of the Storm, Warp Charge 1
This is a Malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 18". For the remainder of the turn, that unit has -1 BS, and treats all terrain as Dangerous Terrain, even open Terrain. If the unit is a Jump, Jet, Jetbike, FMC, Flyer or Skimmer unit, or Immobilised, it must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain Test.

3- Thunderclap, Warp Charge 1
Nova with profile
Rg 12"
Str 3
AP-
Assault 2D6

4- Murderous Hurricane, Warp Charge 2
Rg 18"
Str 4
AP-
Assault 1, Large Blast, "Steely?"

5- Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Warp Charge 2
Witchfire

When manifesting this power the Psyker can shoot with the 2 profiles shown below, one at a time in any order. Both must target the same unit.

Range 18"
str 6 --- 5
AP - ---- 6
Assault 4----- Assault 2, Precision Shots

Jaws of the World Wolf, Warp Charge 2
Focussed Witchfire, Range 18"

Model hit takes Initiative Test, if it fails remoce it from play. Monstrous Creatures automatically pass the test and vehicles cannot be targetted.


Sagas/Warlord Traits

1- of the Warrior Born
Reroll failex hits in CC.

2- of the Wolf
The Warlord and any unit of Beasts or Cavalry he joins from Faction:Space Wolves has Stubborn. Also, any Beasts or Cavalry units from Faction Space Wolves within 12" of the Warlord gains Furious Charge until the end of the assault Phase

3- of the Beastslayer
Grants the Warlord Monster Hunter

4- of the Bear
Grants the Warlord Feel No Pain (6+)

5- of the Hunter
Grants the Warlord Scout and Outflank

6- of Majesty
Any unit of Space Wolves within 12" may reroll Morale and Pinning

Deadshot wrote:Special Rules in the summary Section. The pattern goes from top left to bottom right.

Murderlust

Murderfang is immune to Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned but still loses a Hull Point.

Drop Pod Assault
As normal

Cunning of the Wolf (Great Company Formation ONLY)
During deployment, roll a D6 for each unit in the formation and add +2 if they are troops or have an IC from the Formation attached to the unit. On a roll of 6+, the unit gains the Outflank rule. Additionally, at the start of any turn except the first, you may choose which units to keep in deployment instead of rolling. These units enter ongoing reserves and come in automatically next turn.

Howl of War?
Ragnar Blackmane and his unit have Furious Charge

Howl of the Wolf? (Great Company only)
The Wolf Lord from the formation and his unit have Furious Charge and Fleet.

Mindlock
As normal

"Demented Bravado"
Ragnar Blackmane must issue and accept challenges where possible.

Grimnar's Champion
Arjac Rockfist must issue and accept challenges where possible, and may reroll to hit rolls in a challenge.

The Last Laugh
If Lukas the Trickster is slain in a challenge, each player must roll a dice. If the Space Wolf player rolls high, Lukas' opponent is also removed as a casualty.


Great Company Formation 

Note these Rules apply to this formation ONLY! 

Composition 

1 Wolf Lord 
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader 
1 Unit of Wolf Guard 
1 Unit of Wolf Scouts 
2 Units of Long Fangs 
3 Units chosen from; Blood Claws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws, in any combination. 
5 Units of Grey Hunters. One unit must have the Wolf Standard. 

Formation special rules 

Cunning of the Wolf 
During deployment, roll a D6 for each unit in the formation and add +2 if they are troops or have an IC from the Formation attached to the unit. On a roll of 6+, the unit gains the Outflank rule. Additionally, at the start of any turn except the first, you may choose which units to keep in deployment instead of rolling. These units enter ongoing reserves and come in automatically next turn.  

Howl of the Wolf 
The Wolf Lord and his unit from this Formation have the Furious Charge and Fleet special rule. 

Jarl of Russ (Jarl is SW lingo) 
The Warlord may reroll his Saga if chosen from this Formation.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Id rather have:

10 GH, PG, PG, MotW, Standard, Rhino or Pod for 220. Was (and is) more efficient and made the Grey Hunter and the best tactical, which fits the fluff. Now they're just whatever, just another marine. And standard tacticals don't live long as is unless you leverage combat tactics and maximize either survival (iron hands), lethality (imperial fists) ,or speed (white scars).

I don't want another Tactical Marine. I want Grey Hunters.

10 GH, 2x PG, PW and Drop Pod is 220, I think 235 with the banner [and only one per detachment]
[Sarcasm] Yes that is a devastating crushing points rise [/Sarcasm]
if you field 4 Grey Hunter Packs that's is less than 5 points a Grey Hunter Pack points increase.

So what chapter tactics work on terminators? Additionally what sm terminators can take combi-weapons?

 pretre wrote:

Haljin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So you lose standard and wulfen, but gain a WGBL for 10 points.

Gain? This means the WG in squad costs 24 points now *since you upgrade a GH), where he was 18 before. That's before any upgrades. The only thing that helps with is to get more special weapons, since he counts as a model in the squad now. But I actually liked the old dilemma of "Ld 9/Special meelee weapon or Ld8 and second gun else you don't fit in 90% of transports".

Mind you, I'm not saying this codex sucks, although I do not fully agree with the direction it took the army in.

Except he didn't cost 18 before. He cost 54 for 3. The ability to not lose an elite slot and just take one is a big plus. I like that we don't have to give up our ld/special weapon to fit in a rhino. That was silly.

 Hulksmash wrote:


So what chapter tactics work on terminators? Additionally what sm terminators can take combi-weapons?

I can still get a terminator w/a power axe and combi-weapon for 38pts. I'm relentless so the stormbolter isn't a lost since I'll be deepstriking/generally close to my opponents. I can now kill a big meany/tank on the drop/disembark. What terminator squad can do that? And then when you attack me I still get 3 attacks instead of 2. You have to consider the upgrade at what they can also take.

Chapter Tactics on Terminators are pointless. Loadouts on Terminators are pretty bad outside of Dark Angels (which also pay for it). Think of the 3pts as a tax for customability (which is also appropriate) if you have a problem with counter-attack.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Id rather have:

10 GH, PG, PG, MotW, Standard, Rhino or Pod for 220. Was (and is) more efficient and made the Grey Hunter and the best tactical, which fits the fluff. Now they're just whatever, just another marine. And standard tacticals don't live long as is unless you leverage combat tactics and maximize either survival (iron hands), lethality (imperial fists) ,or speed (white scars).

I don't want another Tactical Marine. I want Grey Hunters.

10 GH, 2x PG, PW and Drop Pod is 220, I think 235 with the banner [and only one per detachment]
[Sarcasm] Yes that is a devastating crushing points rise [/Sarcasm]
if you field 4 Grey Hunter Packs that's is less than 5 points a Grey Hunter Pack points increase.

Nine less stacks standard, plus loss of mark, plus loss of rerolls on all units.

Yes, that's a big hit. Before, people would butt pucker at the thought of charging a fresh unit of Greys. Now it's much less scary.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:


So what chapter tactics work on terminators? Additionally what sm terminators can take combi-weapons?

I can still get a terminator w/a power axe and combi-weapon for 38pts. I'm relentless so the stormbolter isn't a lost since I'll be deepstriking/generally close to my opponents. I can now kill a big meany/tank on the drop/disembark. What terminator squad can do that? And then when you attack me I still get 3 attacks instead of 2. You have to consider the upgrade at what they can also take.

Chapter Tactics on Terminators are pointless. Loadouts on Terminators are pretty bad outside of Dark Angels (which also pay for it). Think of the 3pts as a tax for customability (which is also appropriate) if you have a problem with counter-attack.

The only Chapter Tactics that work on terminators that I can think of are Imperial Fist bolter drills, but who uses tactical termies?

 Deadshot wrote:
Great Company Formation

Note these Rules apply to this formation ONLY!

Composition

1 Wolf Lord
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader
1 Unit of Wolf Guard
1 Unit of Wolf Scouts
2 Units of Long Fangs
3 Units chosen from; Blood Claws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws, in any combination.
5 Units of Grey Hunters. One unit must have the Wolf Standard.

Formation special rules

Cunning of the Wolf
During deployment, roll a D6 for each unit in the formation and add +2 if they are troops or have an IC from the Formation attached to the unit. On a roll of 6+, the unit gains the Outflank rule. Additionally, at the start of any turn except the first, you may choose which units to keep in deployment instead of rolling. These units enter ongoing reserves and come in automatically next turn. 

Howl of the Wolf
The Wolf Lord and his unit from this Formation have the Furious Charge and Fleet special rule.

Jarl of Russ (Jarl is SW lingo)
The Warlord may reroll his Saga if chosen from this Formation.

 Anpu42 wrote:

So when Assault/Get Assaulted we get 20 Attacks [no more LD Needed for that]
For 10 or 15 points you can kick that up to 30 [Wolf Standard, that does not go away]
And for around 20 that become 40
These number should impress Orks and Nids and piss off Khorn.

 TheKbob wrote:
And losing EW from Bear Lords is massive. That kills thunder pups in my eyes. Having that tanking wound sink is important.

 Deadshot wrote:
Great Company Formation

Note these Rules apply to this formation ONLY!

Composition

1 Wolf Lord
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader
1 Unit of Wolf Guard
1 Unit of Wolf Scouts
2 Units of Long Fangs
3 Units chosen from; Blood Claws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws, in any combination.
5 Units of Grey Hunters. One unit must have the Wolf Standard.

Formation special rules

Cunning of the Wolf
During deployment, roll a D6 for each unit in the formation and add +2 if they are troops or have an IC from the Formation attached to the unit. On a roll of 6+, the unit gains the Outflank rule. Additionally, at the start of any turn except the first, you may choose which units to keep in deployment instead of rolling. These units enter ongoing reserves and come in automatically next turn. 

Howl of the Wolf
The Wolf Lord and his unit from this Formation have the Furious Charge and Fleet special rule.

Jarl of Russ (Jarl is SW lingo)
The Warlord may reroll his Saga if chosen from this Formation.

Super Newb wrote:

So you said 'Boo Hoo' before now you are claiming people are 'crying'. Are you trying to get an award for least liked individual? Did someone recently kick your puppy? How about you try to relax dude.

 undertow wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
And losing EW from Bear Lords is massive. That kills thunder pups in my eyes. Having that tanking wound sink is important.

Try losing EW from an entire Codex. Look what happened to Bloodcrushers when the new Daemon codex came out. I have no sympathy for SW losing EW from a couple of models.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

So when Assault/Get Assaulted we get 20 Attacks [no more LD Needed for that]
For 10 or 15 points you can kick that up to 30 [Wolf Standard, that does not go away]
And for around 20 that become 40
These number should impress Orks and Nids and piss off Khorn.

On one unit. Assuming the banner doesnt die. And at a higher points cost. Still not selling me on it.I'd rather have to 20 attacks base plus 10 for CA, 30 total always for all squads and then the standard for rerolls. Far superior.

 Crimson wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

So you said 'Boo Hoo' before now you are claiming people are 'crying'. Are you trying to get an award for least liked individual? Did someone recently kick your puppy? How about you try to relax dude.

Eh, I'm just surprised that people are surprised by Grey Hunters getting a price adjustment. I thought that it was consensus before that they were undercosted when compared to other Marine troops. Now they cost same as Tacticals, with about the same base competence, but get better options (for appropriate point cost.) They're still really good.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
So in the other thread it was said that the wolf standard gives +1 attack to all friendlies within 6" at all times. Pending on how cheap this is, it might be a nice way to go around the 2pt cost of a CCW. Or you just stack up both and have grey hunters with 4 attacks on the charge/counter attack.

That seems pretty nice. If we can put a wolf standard in wolf guard, that would be very, very nice. TDA running around with TH/SS and 3 attacks base?