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There had better be Wulfen, or I've got a bunch of squads I can't use properly. Most of my Grey Hunters contain 10 men, a Wulfen, two special weapons, a Wolf Standard, and a power fist. If they can no longer take the Wulfen or the standard, they are reduced to 8 men which means no second special weapon. Now all my grey hunters are reduced to 7 men! :(

 Kavish wrote:
There had better be Wulfen, or I've got a bunch of squads I can't use properly. Most of my Grey Hunters contain 10 men, a Wulfen, two special weapons, a Wolf Standard, and a power fist. If they can no longer take the Wulfen or the standard, they are reduced to 8 men which means no second special weapon. Now all my grey hunters are reduced to 7 men! :(

You can still you all of them.
The Wulfen could make good Grey Hunters
The Standard Bearers can make a great WGPL
You can still take the Power Fist for normal Grey Hunters.

For Rune Priest Other thread says 60. 85 points if you want ML 2

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
There had better be Wulfen, or I've got a bunch of squads I can't use properly. Most of my Grey Hunters contain 10 men, a Wulfen, two special weapons, a Wolf Standard, and a power fist. If they can no longer take the Wulfen or the standard, they are reduced to 8 men which means no second special weapon. Now all my grey hunters are reduced to 7 men! :(

You can still you all of them.
The Wulfen could make good Grey Hunters
The Standard Bearers can make a great WGPL
You can still take the Power Fist for normal Grey Hunters.

If it's the old Wulfen models, they look nothing like Grey Hunters, having a bolt pistol at most.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
So Grey Hunters got more expensive, there are still better than any other Tactical Squad out there and we should be paying for that.

It will also give one less thing for those Non-Wolves out there to whine about.

They are worse than marines because they cost more and don't benefit from combat squads. Acute senses is fluffy, but generally worthless. Counter attack would be chapter tactics, thus free at 14ppm.

Literally everything about them got worse. I expect this book to be not seen on the competitive circuits as "Space Marines do it better.". Rune Priests are just bog standard libbys. We lost our beat stick HQ option. And many other things got bland. The Flyer is nice, finally, but ugly as sin. Dreads are still dreads, terrible.

I don't see this book going anywhere. It deleted fluff and army composition. Its the same format and layout as orks, which is bad. So not much to be excited about. They didn't screw up Lone Wolves, yay!

so wait. SW lose EW on characters? damn shame, my chaos lords smile with glee at SW coming to THAT party.
your unit doesnt get combat squads? again... CSM says HI.
Score a flyer that makes the current helldrake look lame
then we can add that you STILL get everything that a SM chapter gets over CSM.
and did i see you can re roll that warlord trait?

EDIT: and ONE character is TOLD he has to accept and issue challanges... every sarg and better in my book has to.... its daft, but youll get no sympathy from CSM.
i could come up with a long and sundry list. but lets say id consider using this book as a counts as because your sure gonna be doing it better than we ever have.

Uh, do CSM not get access to the CAD in the BRB? Because that's what lets you reroll the Warlord trait.

haha have you SEEN our warlord traits... the codex ones. there is 2 that on average are decent. D3 infiltrate. and PE marines.

TBH i did miss that in the BRB i thought it was a rule being given to SW so they could try again for their sagas. so my bad.

Yes.. we know CSM is a lame book. It's not exactly a secret.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
haha have you SEEN our warlord traits... the codex ones. there is 2 that on average are decent. D3 infiltrate. and PE marines.

TBH i did miss that in the BRB i thought it was a rule being given to SW so they could try again for their sagas. so my bad.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who read the army composition part of the BRB.

Wow there's a lot of doom and gloom...

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow there's a lot of doom and gloom...

There is? You must be reading a different thread to me.

I don't know about doom and gloom. So much as just bleh its boring. Not to say there isn't some doom and gloom. But I believe most people are just not that interested. None of the Special Characters seem special other than Logan, who is over the top in a lame way. The few things that could have been inspiring just aren't. Murderfang a close combat named dread, This guy could have been amazing, but no, just murder this murder that and yeah we forgot his name because we just don't care. Shield/Axe Dread looks great but the rules are lackluster and bland. Characters got cheaper, but lost any flavor. Psychic powers seem lame for the most part.

 Haljin wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
haha have you SEEN our warlord traits... the codex ones. there is 2 that on average are decent. D3 infiltrate. and PE marines.

TBH i did miss that in the BRB i thought it was a rule being given to SW so they could try again for their sagas. so my bad.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who read the army composition part of the BRB.

does CAD apply to using their own FOC, or the FOC supplied in the BRB? because the modified chart in the codex and the different bonus' for using it would seem to apply as well.

I feel like this might be an era for Blood Claws and Thunderwolf Cavalry... this pleases me greatly...

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Haljin wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
haha have you SEEN our warlord traits... the codex ones. there is 2 that on average are decent. D3 infiltrate. and PE marines.

TBH i did miss that in the BRB i thought it was a rule being given to SW so they could try again for their sagas. so my bad.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who read the army composition part of the BRB.

does CAD apply to using their own FOC, or the FOC supplied in the BRB? because the modified chart in the codex and the different bonus' for using it would seem to apply as well.

I strongly suggest you to read the relevant part of the BRB, because your question does not even make sense. Army is build out of different types of detachments, FOC is an attributed of a detachment. CAD is a type of detachment. The special SW 6 HQ detachment is a type of detachment. Only units that are part of the detachment get its benefits and they cannot be part of two detachments at the same time, so it's either SW or CAD benefits...

Really, read the rules before you start crying.

I think from what has been leaked so far that the Codex is playable and looks fun to use. Not top of the pile like Tau/Eldar or TauDar was when it came along, but certainly not nerfed down to 5th Ed Nids in 6th Ed (after all the FAQs worked against them).

The only thing that looks lacklustre to me are the powers. Mostly weak shooting attacks. Thunderclap is particular is woeful. 2D6 Str 3 AP- shots at 12"? Really? Murderous Hurricane and Fury of the Wolf Spirits isn't much better. Jaws was nerfed but I think its still reasonable. Quick fix for Necron Overlords with MSS, and if anyone is planning to face Necrons regularly I can see Jaws Priests becoming an auto-take for that along.
Living Lightning looks ok, but its a slightly worse version of a Tesla Destructor. With more rolls needed to use.
The first power for Obscured and Wrath of the Storm are ok at best. There are better powers in the BRB.

 Haljin wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Haljin wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
haha have you SEEN our warlord traits... the codex ones. there is 2 that on average are decent. D3 infiltrate. and PE marines.

TBH i did miss that in the BRB i thought it was a rule being given to SW so they could try again for their sagas. so my bad.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who read the army composition part of the BRB.

does CAD apply to using their own FOC, or the FOC supplied in the BRB? because the modified chart in the codex and the different bonus' for using it would seem to apply as well.

I strongly suggest you to read the relevant part of the BRB, because your question does not even make sense. Army is build out of different types of detachments, FOC is an attributed of a detachment. CAD is a type of detachment. The special SW 6 HQ detachment is a type of detachment. Only units that are part of the detachment get its benefits and they cannot be part of two detachments at the same time, so it's either SW or CAD benefits...

Really, read the rules before you start crying.

im asking as people have mentioned that SW who take the min 2 HQ slots as per codex are saying that they DONT get the ObSec bonus but get codex related bonus' . hence the question.
and as to "crying" i have not cried just pointed out to whiners that the "nerfs" received to the SW codex bring them into line with other codecies, and in some cases the nerfs are down to the level CSM have had since thebegining of 6th. (best of 4++ on Lords, no EW etc)

Justyn wrote:
I don't know about doom and gloom. So much as just bleh its boring. Not to say there isn't some doom and gloom. But I believe most people are just not that interested. None of the Special Characters seem special other than Logan, who is over the top in a lame way. The few things that could have been inspiring just aren't. Murderfang a close combat named dread, This guy could have been amazing, but no, just murder this murder that and yeah we forgot his name because we just don't care. Shield/Axe Dread looks great but the rules are lackluster and bland. Characters got cheaper, but lost any flavor. Psychic powers seem lame for the most part.

OK, I'll give you the psychic powers. They do suck. But at least we have access to BRB powers. And some good ones at that! And I guess some of the wolves character has gone missing. But it doesn't sound like a bad book at all. I think it sounds like it could be quite competitive. And more exciting for me is that it sounds competitive without requiring units to be spammed. People seem upset that they can't spam grey hunters like they did before. But I personally like the direction people are pushed into. Hopefully it'll mean more rounded armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I feel like this might be an era for Blood Claws and Thunderwolf Cavalry... this pleases me greatly...

I'm also very excited. Yeah blood claws BS is poor, but they could prove an awesome close combat unit. And I really wanted TWC to be improved, and they have. Massively.

Why do they seem like an awesome close combat unit? They look like assault marines to me.. and assault marines have been terrible for an extremely long time. Rage isn't a very large bonus, when you're STILL an assault marine (with worse stats).

 Kirasu wrote:
Why do they seem like an awesome close combat unit? They look like assault marines to me.. and assault marines have been terrible for an extremely long time. Rage isn't a very large bonus, when you're STILL an assault marine (with worse stats).

Because they cost very little, can get multiple special weapons, can take a melee special weapon without it needing to be carried by a character, plus they have rage, and counter attack..... And at that low points cost they're possibly the cheapest form of MEQ.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Why do they seem like an awesome close combat unit? They look like assault marines to me.. and assault marines have been terrible for an extremely long time. Rage isn't a very large bonus, when you're STILL an assault marine (with worse stats).

Because they cost very little, can get multiple special weapons, can take a melee special weapon without it needing to be carried by a character, plus they have rage, and counter attack..... And at that low points cost they're possibly the cheapest form of MEQ.

This right here. They are everything Khorne Berserkers should be, with slightly lower stats and lack of furious charge.

 Kirasu wrote:
Why do they seem like an awesome close combat unit? They look like assault marines to me.. and assault marines have been terrible for an extremely long time. Rage isn't a very large bonus, when you're STILL an assault marine (with worse stats).

The last time I assaulted with assault marines was early 5th edition...

Once the blood angel ones get a points drop I can see assault marines being useful.

As for blood claws they are 12 points. That is pretty darn cheap. I could see 1-2 full packs being pretty good, especially combined with the new flier(which would have OS). Throw a character into each and then go to town.

Add in some other support elements and I think it could be the solid basis for a list.

Just use a MSU of blood claws to soak up the Overwatch and then charge the TWC in - how hard is that?

TWC max size went up to 6 now too. You can get 6 for 10pts less than you could get 5 for

I think 2-3 units of 5 with some shields and a fist or two is going to be a big deal. They are basically everthing bloodcrushers should have been. 2-3 units support by several drop pod units is going to be seriously hardcore.

 Hulksmash wrote:
TWC max size went up to 6 now too. You can get 6 for 10pts less than you could get 5 for

I think 2-3 units of 5 with some shields and a fist or two is going to be a big deal. They are basically everthing bloodcrushers should have been. 2-3 units support by several drop pod units is going to be seriously hardcore.

This was my thoughts exactly. I'm interested to see exactly what weapons blood claws can get. But 2-3 pods full is still pretty durable and once they've all survived a shooting turn will munch anything they hit that's not an MC or equivalent. Then 2-3 units of TWC with Shields and other specials can hurt...... Basically everything and anything. Add in a couple of long fang packs with pods just to allow you to drop all 3 blood claws. Or maybe a murdermurdermurder or what ever it's called and you could be laughing.

I'm even contemplating an 8 man blood claws pack with a WG in TDA with a SS and the dread with the SS. See if I can't get a shield in every unit.....

I agree. They just need a little screening to get up and wreck face.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I agree. They just need a little screening to get up and wreck face.

Well I'm hoping some pods full of MEQ will be enough of a distraction to get the TWC close enough to do their thing. My main opponent is a farsight enclaves player. I' hoping to really upset him.

 Hulksmash wrote:
TWC max size went up to 6 now too. You can get 6 for 10pts less than you could get 5 for

I think 2-3 units of 5 with some shields and a fist or two is going to be a big deal. They are basically everthing bloodcrushers should have been. 2-3 units support by several drop pod units is going to be seriously hardcore.

Yep, don't forget you can get a 2+ armor tank for them as well (Iron Priest), or add in characters from other armies (Super friends!) like Eternal Bike Masters, etc. TWC are hilarious now.

3x10 GH's in Pods w/2 Melta, WG & Combi
2x6 TWC w/2 Shields & 1 PF

It's only 1235....

That's plenty of points left over for characters and other support.