Power of the God Emperor

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**Abaddon the armless**

We all know that the GeoM is psychically superior to the Primarchs but i was just wondering whether he was physically stronger than any of them.
Magnus is obviously the closest to him in psychic ability but what primarch would he be closest to physical terms, i thought it would be someone like Rogal Dorn

**tgjensen**

Some of the stories of the Primarchs' discoveries have them fighting the Emperor in contests. Some of them, like Ferrus Manus and Vulkan, apparently more or less tied with the Emperor, while Leman Russ defeated the Emperor in drinking and eating contests but was put on his ass when he decided to challenge the Emperor to a fight.

So it's a bit up in the air.

**DanielBeaver**

It's sort of implied that his physical characteristics are entirely maleable by his psychic abilities (beyond the "psychic disguise" that he wears). Magnus appears to be able to do the same thing - in Prospero Burns, doesn't he basically transform himself into a giant? That makes me think that the Emperor can make himself arbitrarily strong, and that his contests with the more "physical" primarchs were basically just a show he put on to convince them to join the crusade. The books are pretty vague even about how physically large he is - you would expect that he would have to be primarch-sized to fight the likes of Leman Russ, but in other cases he seems to be rather human-sized. He's using his psychic abilities to alter how other people perceive him, so what the characters in the novels say about him is not necessarily accurate (good 'ol unreliable narrator).

**tgjensen**

DanielBeaver wrote:
It's sort of implied that his physical characteristics are entirely maleable by his psychic abilities (beyond the "psychic disguise" that he wears). Magnus appears to be able to do the same thing - in Prospero Burns, doesn't he basically transform himself into a giant? That makes me think that the Emperor can make himself arbitrarily strong, and that his contests with the more "physical" primarchs were basically just a show he put on to convince them to join the crusade. The books are pretty vague even about how physically large he is - you would expect that he would have to be primarch-sized to fight the likes of Leman Russ, but in other cases he seems to be rather human-sized. He's using his psychic abilities to alter how other people perceive him, so what the characters in the novels say about him is not necessarily accurate (good 'ol unreliable narrator).

Yeah, I agree. I think Leman Russ is the kind of dude to be impressed by a physically more powerful Emperor - an alpha to lead the pack, if you will - and as such the Emperor decided to beat him convincingly. Ferrus and Vulkan were probably more easily swayed by the Emperor embodying a "noble equal" kind of character, and as such he held back with them.

**Deadshot**

I remember that Leman Russ beat him at eating and drinking but was taken down in a single punch from the Emperor's power-gauntlet.

Vulkan challenged him to a contest to slay the bigger Salamander. The Emperor actually found the bigger one by far, but through into the lava stream so Vulkan didn't die and they could cross safely. He lost the competition but Vulkan was humbled by the Emperor's self-sacrifice and humanity and swore allegiance anyway.

Guilliman was impressed by the Crusade and wanted to be a part of it.

**Wyzilla**

Deadshot wrote:
I remember that Leman Russ beat him at eating and drinking but was taken down in a single punch from the Emperor's power-gauntlet.

Vulkan challenged him to a contest to slay the bigger Salamander. The Emperor actually found the bigger one by far, but through into the lava stream so Vulkan didn't die and they could cross safely. He lost the competition but Vulkan was humbled by the Emperor's self-sacrifice and humanity and swore allegiance anyway.

Guilliman was impressed by the Crusade and wanted to be a part of it.

The Vulkan tale kinda gets really stupid however considering that Curze survived lava just plain fine, and Vulkan is now a perpetual by new-fluff. The only it ever made sense is if it was a particularly deep pool of lava, and Vulkan would have died from drowning, not heat.

**Deadshot**

Wyzilla wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
I remember that Leman Russ beat him at eating and drinking but was taken down in a single punch from the Emperor's power-gauntlet.

Vulkan challenged him to a contest to slay the bigger Salamander. The Emperor actually found the bigger one by far, but through into the lava stream so Vulkan didn't die and they could cross safely. He lost the competition but Vulkan was humbled by the Emperor's self-sacrifice and humanity and swore allegiance anyway.

Guilliman was impressed by the Crusade and wanted to be a part of it.

The Vulkan tale kinda gets really stupid however considering that Curze survived lava just plain fine, and Vulkan is now a perpetual by new-fluff. The only it ever made sense is if it was a particularly deep pool of lava, and Vulkan would have died from drowning, not heat.

Maybe Vulkan (or the Emperor) didn't know he would survive, and definitely didn't know he'd respawn.

**TiamatRoar**

Yea, Vulkan didn't find out he was a perpetual until waaaay later, I think.

**Rysgame**

A perpetual?

**pm713**

Rysgame wrote:
A perpetual?

People who cant die basically. Although I think theres one weapon that strips the immortality.

**Void__Dragon**

Abaddon the armless wrote:
We all know that the GeoM is psychically superior to the Primarchs but i was just wondering whether he was physically stronger than any of them.
Magnus is obviously the closest to him in psychic ability but what primarch would he be closest to physical terms, i thought it would be someone like Rogal Dorn

The Primarchs are said to rival the Emperor in martial might, and according to the 6e rulebook some might be stronger.

Though like Magnus the Emperor should be able to amplify his strength, yeah.

He was definitely physically weaker than Horus juiced on Chaos.

**tgjensen**

Void__Dragon wrote:
He was definitely physically weaker than Horus juiced on Chaos.

How do you figure?

**Judge Dredd**

Hard to say. It's not like we could point out a particular battle in which we are sure he purposely held back his psychics powers.

If I'd have to speculate, I guess The Emperor was too much of a complex individual to just pick up a single element and compare it with others.

**PrehistoricUFO**

I love these discussions about the primarchs and the Emperor.

Tell me, are the tales of their discoveries recounted in the HH novels (which I have yet to begin, I'm reluctant to dedicate myself to one single series when there are so many smaller arcs to enjoy)? Or are they just scattered throughout the various codices and random WD entries? I'd love to read about all the primarchs first meeting the Emperor. I've read the Vulkan one which was really cool, and the Guilliman one.

**tgjensen**

You can always look them up on http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/, though there might be spoilers for the Horus Heresy series.

**Void__Dragon**

tgjensen wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
He was definitely physically weaker than Horus juiced on Chaos.

How do you figure?

Because Horus literally ripped his fething arm off.

**pm713**

Void__Dragon wrote:
tgjensen wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
He was definitely physically weaker than Horus juiced on Chaos.

How do you figure?

Because Horus literally ripped his fething arm off.

Shortly before his utter annihilation because the Emperor stopped holding back.

**Void__Dragon**

Now all you need to do is show the Emperor annihilating him physically, rather than psychically, and you'll have a point.

**Psienesis**

Horus ripping his arm off does not make the Emperor physically weaker than Horus, it just makes Horus strong enough to pull the Emperor's arm off.

It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, really.

Horus rips the Emp's arm off. Emp turns around and picks up a Titan in one hand and beats Horus into paste with it. Who's the physically stronger one in this example? All Horus did was demonstrate what his strength was capable of doing, not that it was superior to the Emperor.

**PrehistoricUFO**

tgjensen wrote:
You can always look them up on http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/, though there might be spoilers for the Horus Heresy series.

Thanks for the link buddy.

The thing is, I try to avoid reading 40K wikis because they tend to abridge the information, and many details are often omitted because reproducing the tales verbatim leads to copyright issues, etc. I like to read them as they were meant to be presented.

I suppose I can still use the references at the bottom to find the sources though, eh?

**Psienesis**

Remember that there's no such thing as canon in 40K. None of the tales presented are intended to be taken as gospel truth, but rather legends, myths, propaganda, half-truths and outright fabrications.

**Void__Dragon**

Psienesis wrote:
Horus ripping his arm off does not make the Emperor physically weaker than Horus, it just makes Horus strong enough to pull the Emperor's arm off.

It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, really.

Horus rips the Emp's arm off. Emp turns around and picks up a Titan in one hand and beats Horus into paste with it. Who's the physically stronger one in this example? All Horus did was demonstrate what his strength was capable of doing, not that it was superior to the Emperor.

If you can grab someone's arm and tear it off, with them being powerless to stop you, you'd have to overpower their arm first to do it. If they were as strong they'd have just been holding hands pulling on each other. The Emperor's arm gave and it was torn out at the shoulder. Because he's weaker.

I could not care less about your example. At no point did the Emperor physically contend with Horus without getting badly maimed. Horus was stronger.

**Psienesis**

That's not at all how physical strength works. If Horus grabs him by the arm and pulls, rather than by the hand, then there's no counter-pull to Horus' pull. That's simply how the body functions.

**Void__Dragon**

All the Emperor would have to do to counter his pull would be to use his hips and his legs in the motion, even if he grabbed him on the upper arm by the tricep.

Horus punched the Emperor in the chest with a "playful punch" and caved his ribs in.

He was stronger. All evidence points to this fact.

**walkertreat**

I thought the emperor was all round superior to the primarchs? When he finnally realized horus was lost to chaos, he completely destroyed him physically and psycically

**Judge Dredd**

walkertreat wrote:
I thought the emperor was all round superior to the primarchs? When he finnally realized horus was lost to chaos, he completely destroyed him physically and psycically

He obviously was. Horus was enpowered by all chaos gods and The Emperor still had the last last word in their fight.

I don't think anybody can really argue this from an "overall" point of view.

**Void__Dragon**

walkertreat wrote:
I thought the emperor was all round superior to the primarchs? When he finnally realized horus was lost to chaos, he completely destroyed him physically and psycically

With a psychic attack, sure.

That doesn't change the fact that Horus easily maimed the Emperor and left his broken body at his feet in physical combat.

All sources on the Emperor's martial might compared to the Primarchs point to him being "comparable". Psychic power was the area he was unmatched in.

**Abaddon the armless**

Im pretty sure in the Ullanor Crusade the Emperor had to get Horus to save him from an Ork Waboss.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Abaddon the armless wrote:
Im pretty sure in the Ullanor Crusade the Emperor had to get Horus to save him from an Ork Waboss.

Yes, He was being chocked by a warboss. If horus had not been there, the Emp wouldve been killed.

It was noted that the warboss was a very powerful warboss.

**Ashiraya**

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Abaddon the armless wrote:
Im pretty sure in the Ullanor Crusade the Emperor had to get Horus to save him from an Ork Waboss.

Yes, He was being chocked by a warboss. If horus had not been there, the Emp wouldve been killed.

It was noted that the warboss was a very powerful warboss.

It was not just a 'very powerful warboss'. Orks during the 30K era were insanely strong. Ghaz seems like a joke in comparison.

The Wolf of Ash and Fire wrote:The Emperor fought an armoured giant twice his height and breadth. Its skull was a vast, iron-helmed boulder with elephantine tusks and chisel-like teeth that gleamed dully. Its eyes were coal-red slits of such vicious intelligence that it stole Horus’s breath.
Horus had never seen its equal. No bestiary would include its description for fear of being ridiculed, no magos of the Mechanicum would accept such a specimen could exist.
Six clanking, mechanised limbs bolted through its flesh bore grinding, crackling, sawing, snapping, flame-belching weapons of murder. The Emperor’s armour was burning, the golden wreath now ashes around his neck.
Chugging rotor cannons battered the Emperor’s armour even as claws of lightning tore portions of it away. It was taking every screed of the Emperor’s warrior skill and psychic might to keep the mech-warlord’s weaponry from killing him.
‘Father!’ shouted Horus.
The greenskin turned and saw Horus. It saw the desperation in his face and laughed. A fist like a Reductor siege hammer smashed the Emperor’s sword aside and a fist of green flesh lifted him into the air. It crushed the life from him with its inhuman power.