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How long has Abaddon been the warmaster of Chaos now? As long as I've been playing at least. As a long time Chaos player, I was never happy with Abaddon, never really impressed with him, but just kind of accepted him as the leader of the most powerful warband. I think it's fairly general consensus that he's the butt end of many jokes, and not really liked by that many players. If you are a fan of his lore, I apologize, everyone does have their own tastes and preferences. But in general, he's a joke more than a hero. Sure, on the tabletop he hits like a truck, but even there I question his skill. Is he an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction, or is his gear? Give his gear to any random chaos lord and he's almost as good. Even the most generic of demon princes would wup Abaddon senseless if you just gave them both a sword and said "Fight!" I know recent fluff has tried to make him into a more kick-butt character, and it's decent fluff, but it's too late. He's already ingrained in my mind, and the minds of many others as a person who has failed a dozen black crusades (and whose arms constantly fall off!). Even if he hadn't been such a failure, even if he had been a pretty mean dude, he would be stale by now anyway, and would have been trying to achieve his goals for a *very* long time with no results. Take Warhammer Fantasy for example here. I find Archaon to have a significantly better story, an absolute monster on the battlefield, and even have a model that's a hundred times cooler looking. Archaon was an awesome Lord of the End Times. But he failed. I was incredibly dissapointed to see him retain the title of Lord of End Times in the more recent Chaos Warriors codexes (Codecies?). I think games workshop has since retconned the Storm of Chaos, but again it's too late. Calling do-over doesn't really fix the damaged image. As awesome as I thought Archaon was, I wanted a new Lord of the Chaos Hordes, and Abaddon doesn't even hold a candle to Archaon.

Furthermore, the Black Legion is a fairly boring legion. It doesn't really have it's own identity, other than just being the biggest legion out there. Why does the warmaster have to come from the Black Legion? The question is then, who should the new warmaster be? My first suggestion would be Lorgar. What legion is most thoroughly dedicated to the cause of Chaos, in both heart and soul? The Word Bearers. Abaddon never really gave me the impression he was trying to further the power and glory of chaos, he was just kind of there doin his own thing. The Word Bearers would even be a more sinister threat. Whereas most other Chaos legions invade a planet and decimate it, kill the most of the citizens and enslave the rest, the Word Bearers go beyond. When the Word Bearers conquer a planet, they don't just remove it from the hands of the Imperium, they corrupt it. Their invasions move more slowly, but a planet fallen under sway of the Word Bearers is eventually turned into a bastion of the damned. The Imperium isn't just losing a planet, the forces of Chaos gain one. The citizens are so thoroughly indoctrinated into the beliefs that the Chaos Gods are the true gods, the true powers, that the only way for the Imperium to reclaim the planet is to kill all the new converted zealots that the populace once was. I could even see the scenario play out. Abaddon leads his newest black crusade from the eye of terror, but before he launches his first attack, Lorgar himself manifests on Abaddon's bridge. The demon prince decries Abaddon as a failure, a weakling, and accuses him of frivolously wasting the resources of the Chaos Gods with his ineptitude. Lorgar then challenges Abaddon and defeats him. His apostles convert the black legion forces, and, rather than embarking on another doomed crusade to destroy the Emporer, he sets out converting the Emporer's subjects. Sheer destruction isn't the only way to defeat an empire, conversion works even better.

If not Lorgar, then why couldn't the new warmaster be a servant of a particular god? Perhaps a mighty champion from the World Eaters attains daemonhood and an unstoppable horde of Khorne's followers threatens the very fabric of the empire. All the war that has occured in the galaxy for millenia has crossed a threshold and Khorne's hatred, rage and bloodlust manifests in every sentient being in the galaxy, and only the most disciplined of people can resist giving in to the urges. Citizens and soldiers everywhere go on a rampage plunging not only the imperium, but every race in the galaxy in chaos.

Or how about Slaanesh? A small group of Eldar get a taste of pleasure from a minor, forbidden act, and that simple act seals their damnation. They want more and more, and, despite being wracked with shame at their actions, they find themselves so desperate for sensation they call out to Slaanesh, who is more than eager to indulge them. The price? Corruption of more Eldar. This band of Eldar attack their own kin, but they don't kill them, they inflict upon them titillating pleasures, much like someone may inject an unwilling participant with an addictive drug. Once they've had a taste, they can't fight their desires, and thus a new group of Eldar are converted. This small group converts more, and those convert more, and the forces grow exponentially. Armies of Slaanesh demons march with Eldar, and the Eldar use their mastery of the webway to spread the taint of lust and indulgence all across the galaxy. In this way, and Eldar becomes the new Chaos Warmaster. It could even lead to crazy situations such as the Dark Eldar fighting alongside the Imperium in a desperate attempt to keep the Eldar away from Commoragh. (Temporary alliance at best, I assure you. And not one the imperium will walk away the better from.)

Or Tzeentch? How many of you would be surprised if a exceptionally puritan faction of the Inquistion came to the conclusion that everyone in the galaxy was corrupt except themselves? Even the innocent are merely vessels with which demons can posses and manifest. The solution? Destruction of every living soul in the Imperium that is not currently aligned with these puritans. The Inquisition certainely has sway. Grey Knights, Space Marines Chapters, countless Imperial Navies and soldiers. What if the new Warmaster was the head of the Inquisition? A force for Chaos, though utterly convinced of their own righteousness and believing everything they do is for the good of humanity, not the ill. I could see Tzeentch setting this into motion. With the tactics the Grey Knights already utilize, this isn't far from the truth. I know no Grey Knight has ever fallen to chaos, but how powerful would it be if the very first Grey Knight to fall became the new Warmaster?

Anyway, these are just ideas I've had. I just want change, something new. I'm a little biased because I do play Word Bearers, but I really do believe Lorgar is the perfect Warmaster. But heck, I'd be happy with any change of pace! So do you have any other ideas for a new Warmaster? Feel free to think outside the box.

Don't know much about this but I will do my best.

Furthermore, the Black Legion is a fairly boring legion. It doesn't really have it's own identity, other than just being the biggest legion out there.

This is basically how everyone feels about Ultramarines. Very few likes them, they just are there because GW has decided that the army needs a posterboy and it might as well be them.

Why does the warmaster have to come from the Black Legion? The question is then, who should the new warmaster be? My first suggestion would be Lorgar. What legion is most thoroughly dedicated to the cause of Chaos, in both heart and soul? The Word Bearers.

Not bad idea, altough the last time I checked he was a Daemon Prince and I honestly don't think that they're made for this. And you know, he's a primarch so OP and stuff.
(well, the last time I checked was about two millenia ago so who knows)

Why couldn't the new warmaster be a servant of a particular god? Perhaps a might champion from the World Eaters attains daemonhood and an unstoppable horde of Khorne threatens the very fabric of the empire.

Well, people generally like some Chaos gods more than others, and they generally like themselves more than others so giving one of them a "special status", thus lifting it above the other three (posterboy) would be rather unfair to the rest of them and to the players who like let's say Slaanesh more.

And overall, this page is somewhat relevant to your question:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Advancing_the_Storyline

Failbaddon is, has remained and will remain as the Warmaster simply because GW has no motivation of making it otherwise.

 soomemafia wrote:

Furthermore, the Black Legion is a fairly boring legion. It doesn't really have it's own identity, other than just being the biggest legion out there.

This is basically how everyone feels about Ultramarines. Very few likes them, they just are there because GW has decided that the army needs a posterboy and it might as well be them.

Do you have any proof of this rather bias statement? Because last I checked there are entire communities not unlike this one dedicated to Ultramarines or Black Legion.

Just because you jumped on the hipster bandwagon doesn't mean everyone is buying a ticket as well.

Abaddon is the only one with the skills needed to hold together the Legions.

Lorgar could get maybe the TS, DG, EC, WE, maybe the NLs on side, but his devoutness might turn away some of the more sceptical groups like the Iron Warriors.
Likewise Perturabo might be too Atheist for the WB, too straightforward and sensible for the EC. Might get on well with the DG, WE and TS though.
Angron's too unstable and unpopular with the EC.
Mortarion's unpopular with the TS.
Magnus unpopular with DG and Khorne.
Fulgrim is unpopular period. But mostly with WE, Khorne and those Primarchs who harbour some sentiment for Guilliman or Ferrus Manus.
If Abaddon was replaced its unlikely the Black Legion, the proudest Chaos Legion, once the proud Sons of Horus, once before that the Luna Wolves, would bend knee to another Primarch.

The Chaos Warbands would fall in behind whatever Warmaster was there, and the Alpha Legion would do their own thing anyway.

MarsNZ wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:

Furthermore, the Black Legion is a fairly boring legion. It doesn't really have it's own identity, other than just being the biggest legion out there.

This is basically how everyone feels about Ultramarines. Very few likes them, they just are there because GW has decided that the army needs a posterboy and it might as well be them.

Do you have any proof of this rather bias statement? Because last I checked there are entire communities not unlike this one dedicated to Ultramarines or Black Legion.

Just because you jumped on the hipster bandwagon doesn't mean everyone is buying a ticket as well.

Try to imagine me, looking at you sarcastically over my glasses.

No, I don't have "proof" about people's opinions. You know, because such cannot exist. All I have is the opinion of roughly 80% of gamers I've ever met.

Not saying that there are no people who like Ultramarines or Black Legion. I'm not saying that they are a bad choice, that people don't or shouldn't like and support them.
All I'm saying is, that from my experience, GW likes them more than players do. And that makes them the posterboys with little actual respect, the nerds of elementary school that only the teachers appreciate.

But if you actually think that it's a minority of people (as you would say it, hipsters) that don't like them, you are as lost as Matthew "Our Spiritual Leader" Ward.

Abaddon is the only one with the skills needed to hold together the Legions.

Now, see that is something that should have been emphasized more in his background. Being a leader isn't just owning the most face on the battlefield, it takes a whole different set of skills to get others to follow you. I think Lorgar and the Word Bearers could get there, but I admit it would take centuries of propaganda and converting to get enough followers of Chaos to eventually follow him. And even then, I also know a large number, if not the majority of chaos forces are in it just for themselves, for their own enjoyment, and not for the betterment of Chaos, or to overthrow the Emperor. I guess in a way that does give the Black Legion a little more of a personality; that they're in it to achieve something unthinkable, something grand, and not just cause they felt like being pirates. In fact, actively attempting to completely overthrow the Imperium is one of the loftiest goals anyone in the galaxy is actually trying to accomplish, though the Necrons match them there. Still, I think at this point, change for the sake of change would be nice. How about this scenario. Lorgar (or any other aspiring warmaster) attacks and defeats Abaddon and takes control of his forces. Rather than kill Abaddon, the new warmaster decides to imprison him to magnify his humiliation. But Abaddon escapes, along with a small contingent of loyal followers. Stripped of his gear, his honor and his respect, he has to earn it back, and the only way to do that is to defeat the warrior who bested him. He rallies a few of his former subjects and slowly begins to chip away at the new warmaster's power until his army grows. Eventually a massive civil war breaks out amongst the forces of Chaos as they fight for dominance. Not only Abaddon and the new Warmaster, but other potential warmasters as well, all vying for the title of absolute commander. This would give the Imperium a little break, and let's face it, a little reprieve from Chaos invasions will give them a chance to focus on other threats, which they kind of have to. Does Abaddon re-assert his dominance? Does the new Warmaster hold his throne and keep his hard fought power? Does a new warlord shock everyone by slaying them both? Doesn't this kind of seem like something Tzeentch would have set in motion for his own terrifying reasons?