Eldar are the Anti-Fun

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**Happyjew**

Vineheart01 wrote:
tons of Fearless on models that make no sense to have it since other "similar" models in other races dont have it and should

Oh? There are exactly 5 units that have Fearless (unless you count an HQ with the one Relic). Of those 5(6), 3 of them are Monstrous Creatures. One of those has a Fearless bubble.

Compared to say Tyranids, where 2/3 HQs, 1/3 Troops, 1/6 Elite, 1/6 Fast Attack, and 1/7 Heavy Support (9 units) for a total of not only are Fearless, but have a Fearless bubble.

**Random Dude**

I was enticed to buy the Eldar codex when it came out because the fluff and models are so amazing. Their power level is a great bonus.

**Vineheart01**

Happyjew wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
tons of Fearless on models that make no sense to have it since other "similar" models in other races dont have it and should

Oh? There are exactly 5 units that have Fearless (unless you count an HQ with the one Relic). Of those 5(6), 3 of them are Monstrous Creatures. One of those has a Fearless bubble.

Compared to say Tyranids, where 2/3 HQs, 1/3 Troops, 1/6 Elite, 1/6 Fast Attack, and 1/7 Heavy Support (9 units) for a total of not only are Fearless, but have a Fearless bubble.

And that is also crucial to how that army works. Ever seen a tyranid player get out of synapse range by accident? Its decimating to his forces almost every time.
Why are the Eldar fearless outside the undead bas- er Wraiths? By the same logic they are fearless, my Riptide should be fearless or my Warboss should be fearless yet theyre not.

Also, back on the tyranid thing, they dont have insane BS4+, nasty shooting, AND nasty melee all in the same unit except maybe a tyrant. All their other big bugs are specialized to shoot or charge, and do the other very poorly.

**Lshowell**

Random Dude wrote:
I was enticed to buy the Eldar codex when it came out because the fluff and models are so amazing. Their power level is a great bonus.

This is about them being anti-fun. We know you like how over powered they are and how easy it is to win with them. You've made enough posts about wave spam. Please stick to the topic.

Anyway, I feel they are in need of a nurf. Hopefully soon it'll happen, they can take blood angels place.

**pm713**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
tons of Fearless on models that make no sense to have it since other "similar" models in other races dont have it and should

Oh? There are exactly 5 units that have Fearless (unless you count an HQ with the one Relic). Of those 5(6), 3 of them are Monstrous Creatures. One of those has a Fearless bubble.

Compared to say Tyranids, where 2/3 HQs, 1/3 Troops, 1/6 Elite, 1/6 Fast Attack, and 1/7 Heavy Support (9 units) for a total of not only are Fearless, but have a Fearless bubble.

And that is also crucial to how that army works. Ever seen a tyranid player get out of synapse range by accident? Its decimating to his forces almost every time.
Why are the Eldar fearless outside the undead bas- er Wraiths? By the same logic they are fearless, my Riptide should be fearless or my Warboss should be fearless yet theyre not.

Also, back on the tyranid thing, they dont have insane BS4+, nasty shooting, AND nasty melee all in the same unit except maybe a tyrant. All their other big bugs are specialized to shoot or charge, and do the other very poorly.

Do tell me the units that have fearless that shouldn't.

**Random Dude**

Lshowell wrote:
Random Dude wrote:
I was enticed to buy the Eldar codex when it came out because the fluff and models are so amazing. Their power level is a great bonus.

This is about them being anti-fun. We know you like how over powered they are and how easy it is to win with them. You've made enough posts about wave spam. Please stick to the topic.

Anyway, I feel they are in need of a nurf. Hopefully soon it'll happen, they can take blood angels place.

You're right that I should stick to the topic (sorry about that

) but your animosity towards Eldar players is extremely unnecessary.

**Azreal13**

I suspect it's well earned, and possibly well deserved.

Seriously, I've encountered Eldar players who claim to "love the fluff and the models" yet when I see them play, they NEVER field anything outside of Dire Avengers, Farseers, Waveserpents and anything with "Wraith" in the name.

If you love the fluff and the models, how's about playing in a fluffy way (with specialist units working together in concert to achieve various objectives) and give some of those other wonderful models an airing?

**Random Dude**

Azreal13 wrote:
I suspect it's well earned, and possibly well deserved.

Seriously, I've encountered Eldar players who claim to "love the fluff and the models" yet when I see them play, they NEVER field anything outside of Dire Avengers, Farseers, Waveserpents and anything with "Wraith" in the name.

If you love the fluff and the models, how's about playing in a fluffy way (with specialist units working together in concert to achieve various objectives) and give some of those other wonderful models an airing?

I just have a hard time harboring animosity against anyone, especially over toy soldiers.

**Azreal13**

Me neither.

I have less of a problem harbouring animosity against people who prioritise winning toy soldiers over ensuring someone else enjoys their game.

**Nightwolf829**

Anyway, I feel they are in need of a nerf. It will hopefully happen soon and they can take blood angels place.

I remember sitting in a game store a few years ago (during 5th edition) when Blood Angels were exceptionally powerful and Eldar were weak. The Blood Angels player rubbed the beating in as much as he possibly could. Calling the Eldar players units "cheesedar" and other such nonsense with every vehicle or unit kill. It left said player extremely demoralized and deflated (as it happened all the time at said shop). I often saw similar instances in games against Tau (who also had an old and outdated codex). It was also not limited to Blood Angels. It also included Imperial Guard and Grey Knight players.

I still feel bitter over how I saw the xenos players treated. To those Imperial players of that persuasion I say stuff it. Take your licks like everybody else.

Bitterness aside. Imbalance combined with long update periods and lack of fixing problems creates a player-base divide. It always has (since I started in early third edition). I've found that the best thing to do is to talk to your opponent about worries you have with their army list (and expect visa versa) before the game. Figure out a way to make sure you both have fun. It works surprisingly well.

**Lshowell**

I'm a vanilla marine player. I do NOT agree with types of sportsmanship that you witnessed, and I apologize in behalf of them.

**SharkoutofWata**

Seriously, this entire thread is nothing but bad sportsmanship. As a player getting into Eldar since I am completely disenfranchised with Tyranids anymore, I'm seeing nothing but hate for an army that I have just begun to pick up. While there are players that abuse systems, saying an army that I am excited about collecting is 'anti-fun' and countless 'eldar players should be restricted with what they bring' sentiments, it makes me glad this is a global forum and not something at my local store. Because quite frankly, I wouldn't want to play with anyone that is simply so negative about an army they are playing against. I'm not about to restrict my choices of units for another player, though I absolutely will play at a points level of their choosing if I am able to, and I'm not going to play against someone that complains about my Wave Serpents or Jink saves every time I use their rules.

So much of this 'make it a fair match and fun for everyone' being thrown around, but no notice that this much hate is making it anti-fun for Eldar players to even bother playing against folks at all. Eldar is a part of the hobby too. It really is demoralizing to have a faction I'm getting into treated like the worst thing that happened to the game.

**Azreal13**

Hey, blame GW's for allowing a hopelessly lop-sided book to make it out of the studio, not those players who have spent hours of their (in many cases very precious) hobby time sat opposite someone who was winning, not by virtue of superior skill or list building, but through dumb luck of army selection or bandwagon hopping.

It is a long way from being the only offender in the game, but it is probably the worst, and I ask again, if all these players are collecting Eldar for "noble" reasons, why is it only the same half dozen or so units I keep seeing on the battlefield?

**Random Dude**

Azreal13 wrote:
Hey, blame GW's for allowing a hopelessly lop-sided book to make it out of the studio, not those players who have spent hours of their (in many cases very precious) hobby time sat opposite someone who was winning, not by virtue of superior skill or list building, but through dumb luck of army selection or bandwagon hopping.

It is a long way from being the only offender in the game, but it is probably the worst, and I ask again, if all these players are collecting Eldar for "noble" reasons, why is it only the same half dozen or so units I keep seeing on the battlefield?

Don't GW's excessive prices somewhat contribute to that? It would be extremely expensive to try out all the units in the codex.

**SharkoutofWata**

Because you need to find other players to play against perhaps. But if Eldar were taken out of the equation, what sort of debilitating Deathstar would they use instead? But this is not an issue with the army at large. Would you call my Alaitoc pathfinder list an issue? Considering only two Serpents hold my Wraithguard and Guardians. No Wraithknight anywhere in my list. That's an Eldar list still built around a somewhat fluffy section of snipers. I'm not going to blame GW for the belly-aching of players that have just as much opportunity to buy Eldar as anyone else or buy the specific units that can take out tanks with ease.

I will agree that some players abuse the system in place, and some players are absolutely full of gak trying to defend their Serpent Spam with 'noble' reasons, but that is the players individually. Not Eldar and not all Eldar players.

**Lshowell**

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Because you need to find other players to play against perhaps. But if Eldar were taken out of the equation, what sort of debilitating Deathstar would they use instead? But this is not an issue with the army at large. Would you call my Alaitoc pathfinder list an issue? Considering only two Serpents hold my Wraithguard and Guardians. No Wraithknight anywhere in my list. That's an Eldar list still built around a somewhat fluffy section of snipers. I'm not going to blame GW for the belly-aching of players that have just as much opportunity to buy Eldar as anyone else or buy the specific units that can take out tanks with ease.

I will agree that some players abuse the system in place, and some players are absolutely full of gak trying to defend their Serpent Spam with 'noble' reasons, but that is the players individually. Not Eldar and not all Eldar players.

I have to agree with this

**TheSilo**

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Seriously, this entire thread is nothing but bad sportsmanship. As a player getting into Eldar since I am completely disenfranchised with Tyranids anymore, I'm seeing nothing but hate for an army that I have just begun to pick up. While there are players that abuse systems, saying an army that I am excited about collecting is 'anti-fun' and countless 'eldar players should be restricted with what they bring' sentiments, it makes me glad this is a global forum and not something at my local store. Because quite frankly, I wouldn't want to play with anyone that is simply so negative about an army they are playing against. I'm not about to restrict my choices of units for another player, though I absolutely will play at a points level of their choosing if I am able to, and I'm not going to play against someone that complains about my Wave Serpents or Jink saves every time I use their rules.

So much of this 'make it a fair match and fun for everyone' being thrown around, but no notice that this much hate is making it anti-fun for Eldar players to even bother playing against folks at all. Eldar is a part of the hobby too. It really is demoralizing to have a faction I'm getting into treated like the worst thing that happened to the game.

This is the attitude that I've run into. And it's like showing up to a chess match, but bringing two queens and saying "I should be allowed to play with them, I bought them after all. I don't care whether it makes the game un-fun for you."

Some people might want to try a game against that, but pretty soon no one in the club will want to play against someone that brings an unbalanced army to a chess board. It's why video games these days try so hard to get the balance right. Blizzard was releasing balance patches for over half a year when Starcraft 2 came out. They had even more balance releases after the expansion. Balance is hard with three armies, with the dozen or so armies in 40k it's probably impossible. I don't see 40k as a competitive game, for competition you need balance, which is why in pro sports the losing team gets the first pick. So if it's not competitive, then 40k must be for fun, and if your attitude is "I have my fun, I don't care if you have fun" then you're going to be playing all by yourself.

**extremefreak17**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Every time i face eldar, which is about 30-40% of my games actually, i feel like im just doing random crap and hoping it works against what he has because that race makes no sense to me. They have a base statline that rivals Guardsmen in crappyness on troops, yet they have elites that are tough as nails, tons of Fearless on models that make no sense to have it since other "similar" models in other races dont have it and should, the most random init and/or WS between their units, and of course the only non-apoc ranged instant death weapon that isnt pistol-ranged
Pretty much every unit they have except the Wraith stuff i end up thinking "why the hell does that unit have that rule?" - i never think that about ANY race's units. Wraiths are the only unit that makes sense with their statline/job/story compared to other armies. And even then, Wraithknights shouldnt be stock S10 without that sword imo but thats not TOO big a deal.

I have to agree that Eldar are the anti-fun race. I never have a fun game against Eldar even if my opponent is a bit of a moron and blunders his rules giving me an advantage. That being said, i dont get steamrolled by them, but i shouldnt be getting a headache every time i face them whether i win or lose.

This is incredibly inaccurate.

"Yet they have elites that are tough as nails." Every single Elites choice in the Codex that isn't Wraith is T3...

"Tons of Fearless on models that make no sense." Only the Wraith units (which you later went on to say actually make sense) and the Phoenix Lords (which are not that great for the points) have fearless stock. The only other way to get it s a 40 point upgrade for a single model that can be taken once per army. (Shard of Anaris)

"The most random init and/or WS between their units." Pretty much everything in the codex is Init 5 WS 4 (the exceptions being Exarches and HQs). Not sure where you are getting your info from.

**SharkoutofWata**

TheSilo wrote:

This is the attitude that I've run into. And it's like showing up to a chess match, but bringing two queens and saying "I should be allowed to play with them, I bought them after all. I don't care whether it makes the game un-fun for you."

Some people might want to try a game against that, but pretty soon no one in the club will want to play against someone that brings an unbalanced army to a chess board. It's why video games these days try so hard to get the balance right. Blizzard was releasing balance patches for over half a year when Starcraft 2 came out. They had even more balance releases after the expansion. Balance is hard with three armies, with the dozen or so armies in 40k it's probably impossible. I don't see 40k as a competitive game, for competition you need balance, which is why in pro sports the losing team gets the first pick. So if it's not competitive, then 40k must be for fun, and if your attitude is "I have my fun, I don't care if you have fun" then you're going to be playing all by yourself.

But we're not playing Chess. We are playing a game where every single piece is for sale in the same combinations and put simply, who are you to design my list for me? If you buy my army, sure, I'll play however you like. Until then, it is absolutely in your ability to refuse a game because you don't like what you see or your list isn't ready for the opponents. But complaining about it, calling a faction anti-fun is bad sportsmanship. I personally do not want to play a game across the table from you no matter if I'm using my Tyranids, Space Marines or any list of Eldar there is under the sun. Not every Eldar list is unbalanced. Not every Eldar player is spamming Wave Serpents and Wraithknights with a Farseer council. I don't play competitive, and never will play competitive because I am in 40k for the fun of it, and playing Eldar now because their guns were friggin scary back in 3rd. If that list that I build is something that you can only complain about just because it has ELDAR on the codex, we belong on different tables.

**extremefreak17**

Azreal13 wrote:
I suspect it's well earned, and possibly well deserved.

Seriously, I've encountered Eldar players who claim to "love the fluff and the models" yet when I see them play, they NEVER field anything outside of Dire Avengers, Farseers, Waveserpents and anything with "Wraith" in the name.

If you love the fluff and the models, how's about playing in a fluffy way (with specialist units working together in concert to achieve various objectives) and give some of those other wonderful models an airing?

This would only be really Fluffy if you were running a Biel-Tan army.

As for Wave Serpents and Jetseers, they fit Saim-Hann fluff very well. As does any mechanized Eldar list.

Wraithguard and Wraithknights fit with Iyanden, and even have a supplement to back them up.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheSilo wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:
Seriously, this entire thread is nothing but bad sportsmanship. As a player getting into Eldar since I am completely disenfranchised with Tyranids anymore, I'm seeing nothing but hate for an army that I have just begun to pick up. While there are players that abuse systems, saying an army that I am excited about collecting is 'anti-fun' and countless 'eldar players should be restricted with what they bring' sentiments, it makes me glad this is a global forum and not something at my local store. Because quite frankly, I wouldn't want to play with anyone that is simply so negative about an army they are playing against. I'm not about to restrict my choices of units for another player, though I absolutely will play at a points level of their choosing if I am able to, and I'm not going to play against someone that complains about my Wave Serpents or Jink saves every time I use their rules.

So much of this 'make it a fair match and fun for everyone' being thrown around, but no notice that this much hate is making it anti-fun for Eldar players to even bother playing against folks at all. Eldar is a part of the hobby too. It really is demoralizing to have a faction I'm getting into treated like the worst thing that happened to the game.

This is the attitude that I've run into. And it's like showing up to a chess match, but bringing two queens and saying "I should be allowed to play with them, I bought them after all. I don't care whether it makes the game un-fun for you."

Some people might want to try a game against that, but pretty soon no one in the club will want to play against someone that brings an unbalanced army to a chess board. It's why video games these days try so hard to get the balance right. Blizzard was releasing balance patches for over half a year when Starcraft 2 came out. They had even more balance releases after the expansion. Balance is hard with three armies, with the dozen or so armies in 40k it's probably impossible. I don't see 40k as a competitive game, for competition you need balance, which is why in pro sports the losing team gets the first pick. So if it's not competitive, then 40k must be for fun, and if your attitude is "I have my fun, I don't care if you have fun" then you're going to be playing all by yourself.

This is not chess. This is Not Starcraft 2. As you said, balance is probably impossible for 40k with so many different factions. Now all that being said, I am not going to show up to a game and have you tell me I shouldn't field the models that I have been collecting for 15+ years on the sole basis that your terrible list cant handle my Eldar list which includes Shining Spears of all things. There is not a single person that has ever refused to play a game against me, and I suspect that with your terrible attitude, it will be only you that misses out on games.

**Swastakowey**

extremefreak17 wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
I suspect it's well earned, and possibly well deserved.

Seriously, I've encountered Eldar players who claim to "love the fluff and the models" yet when I see them play, they NEVER field anything outside of Dire Avengers, Farseers, Waveserpents and anything with "Wraith" in the name.

If you love the fluff and the models, how's about playing in a fluffy way (with specialist units working together in concert to achieve various objectives) and give some of those other wonderful models an airing?

This would only be really Fluffy if you were running a Biel-Tan army.

As for Wave Serpents and Jetseers, they fit Saim-Hann fluff very well. As does any mechanized Eldar list.

Wraithguard and Wraithknights fit with Iyanden, and even have a supplement to back them up.

Yea, except the vypers huh?

Or falcons...

His point is, its conveniently fluffy to play crazy Eldar lists, but then you look at all the fluffy stuff thats hardly touched and you realize a lot of eldar armies happen to include all these powerful units when there are other suitable models to include.

I would have thought that a Siam Hann army would be jetbikes, autarch, vypers, Shining spears backed by some Falcons (with maybe small squads in there). But nope, apparently its farseer dire avengers (5 men, usually), wave serpents and bikes. Kinda fluffy, but not really how the art depicts them.

In the wraith front, I also imagined that they would trundle forward mindlessly guided by spirit seers and backed by weapon platforms etc. But instead its almost always a few wraiths in wave serpents with farseer and dire avengers (or something along that line).

With a codex that has SO MANY good units, only the best of the already best are chosen. In my experience this is the case as well. They defend it with fluff, but its always fluff plus wave serpents and other best of the best units.

I cant remember the last time a falcon was discussed or seen on a battle report, even though its the eldars main transport and battle tank. Even wraith lords arent seen often, not are autarchs. Where are the non Psycich based armies gone? Its all conveniently removed in favour of the best of the already best in the book.

It bugs me even more when they have a codex where there is little that is actually bad. Most players would be and do fine without all the OP units.

If someone is taking 5 man squads with wave serpents, instead of putting those 5 men in a falcon, I would question their motives immediately (in my head).

I dont refuse games, I simply fight to the end and then find a better person to play with. But I do hate the fluff twisting to justify a bland and powerful list. Especially a wraith knight, 3 wave serpents and 20 soldiers at 1000 points (my last encounter with eldar). Its a bit stupid really.

**AegisGrimm**

I love all the assumptions. From what everyone is claiming, I guess there's something wrong with me. Half the units that "Every Eldar player has", are ones I have either absolutely none, or just one of. No more than one of any Aspect/ Wraithguard unit, no Wraithknight, one Wraithlord, one Wave Serpent (and another of which can be either a Falcon or a Serpent, but is usually a Falcon), absolutely no Jetbike seer council (despite having a jetbike-heavy army).

I would have thought that a Siam Hann army would be jetbikes, autarch, vypers, Shining spears backed by some Falcons (with maybe small squads in there). But nope, apparently its farseer dire avengers (5 men, usually), wave serpents and bikes. Kinda fluffy, but not really how the art depicts them.

My army is absolutely the former. Except only one three-man of Shining Spears, as I made them back when they were as over-priced as they were underwhelming. I just loved the concept of them too much not to make a couple of cool conversion.

**Swastakowey**

AegisGrimm wrote:
From what everyone is claiming, I guess I've never been interested in being a 'standard' Eldar player. Half the units that "Every Eldar player has", are ones I have either absolutely none, or just one of. No more than one of any Aspect/ Wraithguard unit, no Wraithlord, one Wave Serpent and another of which can be either a Falcon or a Serpent, absolutely no Jetbike seer council (despite having a jetbike-heavy army).

My eldar army had no tanks. One of every aspect (3 dire avenger squads) led by a n autarch.

Still felt like easy mode at times, but it had a theme of aspect warriors. Since Guardians pilot vehicles I didnt include them. Except the Crimson hunter.

I had a lot of fun for a while, but I got funny looks by the other Eldar players.

**AegisGrimm**

Yeah, my army leader is an Autarch on a jetbike. I have the original 2nd edition Farseer, but haven't even gotten around to painting and fielding him yet. I was very pleased when 4th edition let me have something other than an Avatar or Farseer as an HQ unit, as I wanted to have an army of "Corsairs".

My army was originally gifted to me as a bunch of Eldar and 3rd edition Dark Eldar, and had tons of Dark Eldar jetbikes. So I really ended up with a Sam-Hain theme pretty easily, by proxying all the Reavers as Guardian Jetbikes and converting several to have underslung Splinter Cannons as counts-as Shrieker Jetbikes.

It was back in the days of 3rd edition, so I almost had a Black Guardian force from the Eye of Terror campaign.

**Azreal13**

Swastakowey wrote:
extremefreak17 wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
I suspect it's well earned, and possibly well deserved.

Seriously, I've encountered Eldar players who claim to "love the fluff and the models" yet when I see them play, they NEVER field anything outside of Dire Avengers, Farseers, Waveserpents and anything with "Wraith" in the name.

If you love the fluff and the models, how's about playing in a fluffy way (with specialist units working together in concert to achieve various objectives) and give some of those other wonderful models an airing?

This would only be really Fluffy if you were running a Biel-Tan army.

As for Wave Serpents and Jetseers, they fit Saim-Hann fluff very well. As does any mechanized Eldar list.

Wraithguard and Wraithknights fit with Iyanden, and even have a supplement to back them up.

Yea, except the vypers huh? Or falcons...

His point is, its conveniently fluffy to play crazy Eldar lists, but then you look at all the fluffy stuff thats hardly touched and you realize a lot of eldar armies happen to include all these powerful units when there are other suitable models to include.

I would have thought that a Siam Hann army would be jetbikes, autarch, vypers, Shining spears backed by some Falcons (with maybe small squads in there). But nope, apparently its farseer dire avengers (5 men, usually), wave serpents and bikes. Kinda fluffy, but not really how the art depicts them.

In the wraith front, I also imagined that they would trundle forward mindlessly guided by spirit seers and backed by weapon platforms etc. But instead its almost always a few wraiths in wave serpents with farseer and dire avengers (or something along that line).

With a codex that has SO MANY good units, only the best of the already best are chosen. In my experience this is the case as well. They defend it with fluff, but its always fluff plus wave serpents and other best of the best units.

I cant remember the last time a falcon was discussed or seen on a battle report, even though its the eldars main transport and battle tank. Even wraith lords arent seen often, not are autarchs. Where are the non Psycich based armies gone? Its all conveniently removed in favour of the best of the already best in the book.

It bugs me even more when they have a codex where there is little that is actually bad. Most players would be and do fine without all the OP units.

If someone is taking 5 man squads with wave serpents, instead of putting those 5 men in a falcon, I would question their motives immediately (in my head).

I dont refuse games, I simply fight to the end and then find a better person to play with. But I do hate the fluff twisting to justify a bland and powerful list. Especially a wraith knight, 3 wave serpents and 20 soldiers at 1000 points (my last encounter with eldar). Its a bit stupid really.

Wow, not only do we agree on something, we agree on it hard.

One can summarise Eldar players by the microcosm on my local club, which features three regular Eldar players.

The first, the classic WAAC player, plays nothing but MSU DA in Serpents with Knjght back up, when he isn't playing his Jetseer Council.

The second plays a little serpent heavy, but his lists frequently feature outliers such as Swopping Hawks and Vypers, as well as other, good but less optimal units like Jetbikes and Warp Spiders. He's even been known to run the odd Avatar.

The third has started a Guard army because he feels bad about exploiting such lopsided rules.

**AegisGrimm**

I force myself to take a squad of Swooping Hawks because in my "Corsair" theme, the plastic Dark Eldar Scourges (wielding just the Carbines) make such freaking awesome savage-looking Swooping Hawks I want to see them on the battlefield (and show them off). Same thing with a squad of Storm Guardians made from the Sybarite arms off the old Dark Eldar plastics coupled with the new Dark Eldar special weapons that looks good enough to be "counts as" special weapons.

**ninjafiredragon**

Nightwolf829 wrote:
Anyway, I feel they are in need of a nerf. It will hopefully happen soon and they can take blood angels place.

I remember sitting in a game store a few years ago (during 5th edition) when Blood Angels were exceptionally powerful and Eldar were weak. The Blood Angels player rubbed the beating in as much as he possibly could. Calling the Eldar players units "cheesedar" and other such nonsense with every vehicle or unit kill. It left said player extremely demoralized and deflated (as it happened all the time at said shop). I often saw similar instances in games against Tau (who also had an old and outdated codex). It was also not limited to Blood Angels. It also included Imperial Guard and Grey Knight players.

I still feel bitter over how I saw the xenos players treated. To those Imperial players of that persuasion I say stuff it. Take your licks like everybody else.

Bitterness aside. Imbalance combined with long update periods and lack of fixing problems creates a player-base divide. It always has (since I started in early third edition). I've found that the best thing to do is to talk to your opponent about worries you have with their army list (and expect visa versa) before the game. Figure out a way to make sure you both have fun. It works surprisingly well.

This post summs up 5th edtion for me. With the new eldar book I began to say Its time to get a taste of your own medicine Imperial scum!

But it got to a point where it wasnt fun. any victory of mine, no matter how friendly I made the list was discredited because I play eldar. So then I began to wish for the 5th edtion days, where I could bring the best lists I could make, and not have people b****ing about it all game.

**MWHistorian**

For people saying that its not chess and because there are so many factions it can't be balanced; I can think of several games that manage to do just that It's GW's fault.

**BlaxicanX**

Space Marine players always tell me that they play the faction because they like the fluff and they like the models, but every Space Marine player I've ever played against always "conveniently" doesn't take the crap units and usually uses the good stuff like bikers, grav-centurions, chapter masters etc.

I guess Space Marines are an OP faction and everyone who plays it is a WAAC TFG sociopath who only plays the faction because it's overpowered.

My personal anecdotes are obviously proof of that. Dur hurr hurr dur.

**Random Dude**

MWHistorian wrote:
For people saying that its not chess and because there are so many factions it can't be balanced; I can think of several games that manage to do just that It's GW's fault.

Trying to turn another thread into an "I hate GW" thread?