Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 streetsamurai wrote:
so GW cant do woman hair in plastic. !!!
I guess this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elves-Witch-Elves

this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Sisters-of-Avelorn

and this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elf-Sorceress


are made out of cotton candy

I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against?

I don't think anyone has said they can't, or haven't, but if you think that those kits, where the hair could only be considered natural looking if there was a metric feth ton of hair gel involved, are an example of doing it well.....

In the end, we're all talking out our backsides, myself included. The Sisters are unique in that they're the only army that's still all metal and haven't had a standalone, print codex since 2nd Edition. They have no analog so it's hard to make any meaningful comparisons. They're in a bizarre limbo, and only a handful of people at GW know their ultimate fate.

I'll go back to my hole, fellas

The hair on the Sorcress is awful. The Sisters are so so, the witch elves I can't comment as I don't have any

 adamsouza wrote:
Step 1.) Give Sister to FW
Step 2.) If people start fielding entire FW armies of resin SIsters, demand dictates new plastic models

They will never totally "squat" Sisters. Space Dwarfs were retired to get away from 40K being a parody of Warhammer Fantasy in space.

But the Rules for 7th Edition mirror Fantasy currently...

I do agree with giving Sisters to FW though. Maybe sisters players should start that petition...

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Step 1.) Give Sister to FW
Step 2.) If people start fielding entire FW armies of resin SIsters, demand dictates new plastic models

They will never totally "squat" Sisters. Space Dwarfs were retired to get away from 40K being a parody of Warhammer Fantasy in space.

But the Rules for 7th Edition mirror Fantasy currently...

I do agree with giving Sisters to FW though. Maybe sisters players should start that petition...

I wouldn't mind FW sisters, but at the rate FW are releasing non-HH models, I imagine it would be quicker to wait for GW to make the sisters in plastic.

 adamsouza wrote:
Step 1.) Give Sister to FW
Step 2.) If people start fielding entire FW armies of resin SIsters, demand dictates new plastic models

They will never totally "squat" Sisters. Space Dwarfs were retired to get away from 40K being a parody of Warhammer Fantasy in space.

Actually, and unusually, the reason Squats were canned is a matter of record. Nobody in the Studio liked the vibe of Squats as they were in RT/2nd, but equally nobody could get excited about/have any ideas for reinventing them.

Personally, I think all they needed to do was look to Epic for inspiration, but I suspect that the tech wasn't there to make models in the right scale at the time.

I think something that used a few Superheavies and some Elite infantry could be an interesting army to introduce now GW are clearly capable of producing large models relatively easily, but it's probably too late.

 Azreal13 wrote:
but it's probably too late.

Sadly, I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. We asked so often that it not only pissed them off from being constantly asked, it became a running joke to use at every event by those people who didn't even want them, further pissing them off. I think at this point GW refuses to touch them as a matter of stubborn pride more than any actually lack of desire to make them.

So congrats, Squats have been made extinct by Hive Fleet Internet.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
but it's probably too late.

Sadly, I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. We asked so often that it not only pissed them off from being constantly asked, it became a running joke to use at every event by those people who didn't even want them, further pissing them off. I think at this point GW refuses to touch them as a matter of stubborn pride more than any actually lack of desire to make them.

So congrats, Squats have been made extinct by Hive Fleet Internet.

Can you apply stockholm syndrome to a company? They aren't the victims... GW is a business that shouldn't worry about about running jokes or "asking them too much", I hope you're kidding. GW has 99 problems and caring what we say isn't one of them.

The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

Meh, I have more hope in Raging Heroes creating proper sister models rather than GW. Even though we'd have to wait a year or so after their next kickstarter.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Meh, I have more hope in Raging Heroes creating proper sister models rather than GW. Even though we'd have to wait a year or so after their next kickstarter.

Yeah, I'm still wary of RH after their last KS.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
so GW cant do woman hair in plastic. !!!
I guess this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elves-Witch-Elves

this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Sisters-of-Avelorn

and this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elf-Sorceress


are made out of cotton candy

I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against?

I don't think anyone has said they can't, or haven't, but if you think that those kits, where the hair could only be considered natural looking if there was a metric feth ton of hair gel involved, are an example of doing it well.....

While the quality (or non-quality) of the hair on these mini is rather subjective, I strongly doubt that GW quality criteria are variable, and change according to the army. If they deemed those kits to be acceptable for High elves and dark elves, I found very dubious the claim that GW hold sister to a higher standard. Imo, the only logical conclusion that you can imply from the lack of support to the SOB, is that GW don't feel that they are worth the effort, they dont think that the return of investment would be good enough to justify the money and the time to update them in plastic.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
but it's probably too late.

Sadly, I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. We asked so often that it not only pissed them off from being constantly asked, it became a running joke to use at every event by those people who didn't even want them, further pissing them off. I think at this point GW refuses to touch them as a matter of stubborn pride more than any actually lack of desire to make them.

So congrats, Squats have been made extinct by Hive Fleet Internet.

Can you apply stockholm syndrome to a company? They aren't the victims... GW is a business that shouldn't worry about about running jokes or "asking them too much", I hope you're kidding. GW has 99 problems and caring what we say isn't one of them.

One, I'm not quite sure you understand what Stockholm Syndrome is, because that's not even close to an example of capture-bonding. Perhaps you mean a different antagonistic syndrome?

Two, when I state GW in that post, I really mean the design team, who are a group of people that have multiple times in the past expressed a very tired stance of "Please stop asking, it's not funny" on the constant "when will the Squats/Fomor return?" they got at every single Games Day/GW event. So yes, it is a valid concern that we ourselves may have killed our chances of new Squats/Demiurg/whatever they decide to name them.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
so GW cant do woman hair in plastic. !!!
I guess this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elves-Witch-Elves

this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Sisters-of-Avelorn

and this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Dark-Elf-Sorceress


are made out of cotton candy

I'm not sure if this is an argument for or against?

I don't think anyone has said they can't, or haven't, but if you think that those kits, where the hair could only be considered natural looking if there was a metric feth ton of hair gel involved, are an example of doing it well.....

While the quality (or non-quality) of the hair on these mini is rather subjective, I strongly doubt that GW quality criteria are variable, and change according to the army. If they deemed those kits to be acceptable for High elves and dark elves, I found very dubious the claim that GW hold sister to a higher standard. Imo, the only logical conclusion that you can imply from the lack of support to the SOB, is that GW don't feel that they are worth the effort, they dont think that the return of investment would be good enough to justify the money and the time to update them in plastic.

Or you can take Jes Goodwin at his word and that he won't sign off on them until he's satisfied and at the point in time he said that, it wasn't the case because they hadn't yet got the relevant toys needed to do that?

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

I love this idea, and would buy a lot of everything you listed!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

I love this idea, and would buy a lot of everything you listed!

I'd love to see some of the units from the Armorcast Inquisitor lists "stolen" to round it out.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

I love this idea, and would buy a lot of everything you listed!

I'd love to see some of the units from the Armorcast Inquisitor lists "stolen" to round it out.

Kickstarter anyone?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

I love this idea, and would buy a lot of everything you listed!

me too, i've kinda a soft spot for the Squats...and the Sisters

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I do agree with giving Sisters to FW though. Maybe sisters players should start that petition...

Eugh, no. SoB at FW would mean releases at a snail's pace, as well as being more obscure than if they were at GW. Not to mention how some people are awkward towards FW. Nah, they're better off as a GW army.

...Which seems to be where they're staying for the moment anyway. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had GW people talking about working on them in the future at the recent seminar.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

So you're saying they don't belong in current 40K based in the fact that there style is out of date, then cite the example of Orks who's style has altered significantly?

They would be a blank slate to end all blank slates, they've got no hangovers like Sisters have, or Dark Eldar had before their last update. You're absolutely right that the "short Vikings" trope would be awful, but a pragmatic, secular faction with a really tough gritty edge (a certain fatalism at being near exterminated by the Tyranids would be a nice theme) and a high degree of tech competence could definitely work. The aesthetics would have to work too, of course, but I think there's potential there now, perhaps for the first time since Rogue
Trader.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

 pretre wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Meh, I have more hope in Raging Heroes creating proper sister models rather than GW. Even though we'd have to wait a year or so after their next kickstarter.

Yeah, I'm still wary of RH after their last KS.

What happened?

 crazyfoxdemon wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Meh, I have more hope in Raging Heroes creating proper sister models rather than GW. Even though we'd have to wait a year or so after their next kickstarter.

Yeah, I'm still wary of RH after their last KS.

What happened?

Super delays, poor communication, etc. Although I understand they finally started shipping.

Azreal13 wrote:
So you're saying they don't belong in current 40K based in the fact that there style is out of date, then cite the example of Orks who's style has altered significantly?

Yes. Orks had some potential (they already changed in 1st edition from sadistic slavers to funny green punks/hooligans). Squats... not so much. Orks also got more bestial and larger (not exactly an option for Squats ) and became the better 'Easy Riders'. And I didn't said they shouldn't belong to 40k (there're always niches). Just not as an army.

Azreal13 wrote:They would be a blank slate to end all blank slates, they've got no hangovers like Sisters have, or Dark Eldar had before their last update. You're absolutely right that the "short Vikings" trope would be awful, but a pragmatic, secular faction with a really tough gritty edge (a certain fatalism at being near exterminated by the Tyranids would be a nice theme) and a high degree of tech competence could definitely work. The aesthetics would have to work too, of course, but I think there's potential there now, perhaps for the first time since Rogue
Trader.

There were always examples of isolated human civilizations with tech from the Dark Age. Why should a major faction be one consisting of short, bearded abhumans working in mines, worshipping their ancestors and holding grudges?

streetsamurai wrote:
Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

This too. Sisters, Genestealer Cults, Arbites, Adeptus Mechanicus, Gue'vesa, mutants - all of them are better even for a single kit with a dataslate.

@Azreal13: fixed. Don't know why it happened.

You might want to clean that quote tree up mate, you haven't even got my name right...

Don't Mantic make those now?

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Azreal13 wrote:
So you're saying they don't belong in current 40K based in the fact that there style is out of date, then cite the example of Orks who's style has altered significantly?

Yes. Orks had some potential (they already changed in 1st edition from sadistic slavers to funny green punks/hooligans). Squats... not so much. Orks also got more bestial and larger (not exactly an option for Squats ) and became the better 'Easy Riders'. And I didn't said they shouldn't belong to 40k (there're always niches). Just not as an army.

Sorry dude, your whole argument is basically "Squats shouldn't be an army because I don't think Squats should be an army" which is fine, but this has already gone further off topic in a Sisters thread than I'd like.

Azreal13 wrote:They would be a blank slate to end all blank slates, they've got no hangovers like Sisters have, or Dark Eldar had before their last update. You're absolutely right that the "short Vikings" trope would be awful, but a pragmatic, secular faction with a really tough gritty edge (a certain fatalism at being near exterminated by the Tyranids would be a nice theme) and a high degree of tech competence could definitely work. The aesthetics would have to work too, of course, but I think there's potential there now, perhaps for the first time since Rogue
Trader.

There were always examples of isolated human civilizations with tech from the Dark Age. Why should a major faction be one consisting of short, bearded abhumans working in mines, worshipping their ancestors and holding grudges?

Why shouldn't they? Why would they still need to be all of those things?

streetsamurai wrote:
Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

This too. Sisters, Genestealer Cults, Arbites, Adeptus Mechanicus, Gue'vesa, mutants - all of them are better even for a single kit with a dataslate.

Again "I don't think these things should be a faction because I don't think they should be a faction." You'd prefer more Space Marines? Writing things off because they'd be "mediocre and boring" when they don't even exist is utterly asinine.

 Azreal13 wrote:


Sorry dude, your whole argument is basically "Squats shouldn't be an army because I don't think Squats should be an army" which is fine, but this has already gone further off topic in a Sisters thread than I'd like.

Yeah, will stop now (though... I didn't start it).

Azreal13 wrote:
Why shouldn't they? Why would they still need to be all of those things?

To be Squats and not something out of nowhere? Without some runes their vehicles look just Imperial. And even less 'High-Tech'.

Azreal13 wrote:Again "I don't think these things should be a faction because I don't think they should be a faction." You'd prefer more Space Marines? Writing things off because they'd be "mediocre and boring" when they don't even exist is utterly asinine.

You wanted to bring back Squats. Now you say you want something utterly different. Non-Squats, Neo-Squats. Whatever.

And of course I want more Space Marines, that's why I mentioned several other things GW should do.

And well, your whole argument is, basically, "Squats should be an army because I think Squats should be an army, but it shouldn't be a Squat army, because I want something different to a Squat army, so bring back the Squats".

Well, back to the Sisters. I hope we agree that they should be an army (with the Ecclesiarchy).

 pretre wrote:

 crazyfoxdemon wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Meh, I have more hope in Raging Heroes creating proper sister models rather than GW. Even though we'd have to wait a year or so after their next kickstarter.

Yeah, I'm still wary of RH after their last KS.

What happened?

Super delays, poor communication, etc. Although I understand they finally started shipping.

Yes, they started shipping 23 of the 250 minis the campaign helped create. And a month later are still not done shipping those.