tgjensen wrote:
Dude, Sigismund lived 10,000 years before the current setting. Of course he was going to die eventually, that's what Space Marines do. They fight until they die. At least Sigismund will have the honor of dying to none other than the Warmaster himself, rather than some punk.

Sending him off on some quest to find whatever and pretending like he might still be alive after 10,000 years is the real cop-out in my opinion.

 Orblivion wrote:
And yet Heat was an awesome movie, despite knowing what was going to happen. So that probably works against your argument.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Hmm, I guess if Abaddon has Drach'nyen at this point no, it wouldn't be a pleasant death for the Black Knight.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

Yeah but I think we all know what's gonna happen. It was like watching Heat. Al Pacino is the cop, Robert De Niro is the robber and De Niro gets shot by Pacino in the end. Soooo predictable.

All that's gonna happen is Sigismund meets Abaddon, gives a cute little honor speech before plowing into him and gets gutted. Period. Done.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

Yeah but I think we all know what's gonna happen. It was like watching Heat. Al Pacino is the cop, Robert De Niro is the robber and De Niro gets shot by Pacino in the end. Soooo predictable.

All that's gonna happen is Sigismund meets Abaddon, gives a cute little honor speech before plowing into him and gets gutted. Period. Done.

You're probably right in that, the overall plot will probably end with Sigismund getting killed by Abaddon.

However, that doesn't mean that it's going to be an inglorious death, and there's far worse ways for a man to go out in 40K.

We already know from ADB's prior works that he has an immense amount of respect for Sigismund's fighting abilities. What I think is probable is that he'll spend the story slaughtering his way through Abaddon's lieutenants and champions, and then when he fights Abaddon himself he'll lose due to guile or trickery rather than being outclassed as a fighter. That's not a bad way to go for Sigismund.

I mean yeah it'd be great if he were to die by like, dueling Khorne himself on the roof of an exploding skyscraper sinking into an ocean of lava with the final stanza of Through the Fire and Flames blaring in the background. But. Expectations, etc.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Needing Sigismund to control the ground forces whilst Emperor and co were on the Vengeful Spirit is a massive deal. He was also tasked by Dorn to seek out Champions and kill them. I have the WD at home with a short blurb about it. I'll see if I can post it up later.

Also the IA says

Rogal Dorn chose a warrior from amongst the ranks of his Imperial Fists to be the Emperor's Champion, Brother Sigismund, finest of the warriors of Terra, was given the best armour and weapons and swore a holy duty to seek out the Champions of Chaos and slay them. And so he did, counting fully two dozen of the warped creatures in his bloody tally before Horus was defeated and the Traitor Legions lied to the Eye of Terror.

I don't think the loyalists should have any one left alive after 10 thousand years.

Kharn vs Sigismund would be interesting indeed. We know Kharn dies at the siege of Terra atop a mound of corpses, that would be an awesome setting to write about. Sigismund slaying Kharn and adding his to its peak.

Considering Sigismund and Kharn were good friends during the Great Crusade, Kharn vs Sigismund would be very emotional. Sigismund learned binding his weapons to his wrist from Kharn, and that custom would be adopted by the Black Templars.

Animus wrote:

mrwednesday wrote:
per a recent podcast interview, ADB said Sigismund's fate will be revealed in book 2 or 3 of the Black Legion series. The general context is

Spoiler:

The Legions have been locked away in the Eye for centuries, to the point where the rest of the Imperium has assumed them destroyed let them fade into myth. The exception is the Black Templar, under the command of Sigismund, who have kept vigil over the Eye, anticipating the return of Chaos. And return they do, in the 1st Black Crusade. The Imperium is completely unprepared, the Black Templar under Sigismund's direct command are the only one available to stop them. ADB then said he had a big speech planned out for Sigismund to give Abaddon about how on the last day at the Imperial Palace Sigismund searched the battlefield high and low for Abaddon, intent on destroying him, but like a coward Abaddon hid. But Sigismund always knew he would return, and has been waiting ever since. ADB said he would move heaven and earth to make the rest of the HH team let that happen. So it is a handful of Black Templar who have been preparing for a fight for centuries holding back the entire Black Crusade until the rest of the Imperium can scramble to meet the threat.

ADB didn't reveal anything more, but like Blaxican said, Sigismund does not die well

So the guy who commands the guys who are supposed to Crusade forever, stops crusading and becomes a guard dog for the rest of his days.
ADB, pls.

mrwednesday wrote:
Only if you regard Captain Ahab as a guard dog, and not a zealot on a crusade to kill the White Whale.

tgjensen wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So doesn't give an actual record of which one it was, unless it's been mentioned in something like Sentinels of Terra. Maybe it's the same one and he is with Dorn for the final charge?

ADB brought this up in a thread over on Bolter & Chainsword where he also discussed his ideas for Sigismund. During a meeting at Black Library he found out that Dorn dies during a Black Crusade, but not one of Abaddon's, and thus presumably not the same one as Sigismund falls in. Dorn dies later, in early M32 I think.

clively wrote:

tgjensen wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So doesn't give an actual record of which one it was, unless it's been mentioned in something like Sentinels of Terra. Maybe it's the same one and he is with Dorn for the final charge?

ADB brought this up in a thread over on Bolter & Chainsword where he also discussed his ideas for Sigismund. During a meeting at Black Library he found out that Dorn dies during a Black Crusade, but not one of Abaddon's, and thus presumably not the same one as Sigismund falls in. Dorn dies later, in early M32 I think.

You know that Abaddon has led all of the black crusades. Right?

1. Abaddon get's Drach'nyen.
2. Abaddon curses Belis Corona sector
3. Abaddon send Tallomin against the Cadian gate then leads a strike against Gerstahl to destroy some saint's remains.
4. Abaddon destroy's Kromarch.
5. Abaddon summons Doombreed, kills two chapters.
6. Abbadon destroy's Arkreach and kills a rival.
7. Abaddon nearly eliminates the Blood Angels.
8. Abaddon destroys a bunch of worlds using Tzeentch rituals.
9. Abaddon destroys the fleets of Cancephalus.
10. Abaddon and Perturabo take on the Helican sub-sector
11. Abaddon captures a bunch of orks.
12. Abaddon captures 2 blackstone fortresses.
13. Abaddon attacks Cadia.

Do you see the pattern?

clively wrote:
You know that Abaddon has led all of the black crusades. Right?

clively wrote:

tgjensen wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So doesn't give an actual record of which one it was, unless it's been mentioned in something like Sentinels of Terra. Maybe it's the same one and he is with Dorn for the final charge?

ADB brought this up in a thread over on Bolter & Chainsword where he also discussed his ideas for Sigismund. During a meeting at Black Library he found out that Dorn dies during a Black Crusade, but not one of Abaddon's, and thus presumably not the same one as Sigismund falls in. Dorn dies later, in early M32 I think.

You know that Abaddon has led all of the black crusades. Right?

1. Abaddon get's Drach'nyen.
2. Abaddon curses Belis Corona sector
3. Abaddon send Tallomin against the Cadian gate then leads a strike against Gerstahl to destroy some saint's remains.
4. Abaddon destroy's Kromarch.
5. Abaddon summons Doombreed, kills two chapters.
6. Abbadon destroy's Arkreach and kills a rival.
7. Abaddon nearly eliminates the Blood Angels.
8. Abaddon destroys a bunch of worlds using Tzeentch rituals.
9. Abaddon destroys the fleets of Cancephalus.
10. Abaddon and Perturabo take on the Helican sub-sector
11. Abaddon captures a bunch of orks.
12. Abaddon captures 2 blackstone fortresses.
13. Abaddon attacks Cadia.

Do you see the pattern?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Sigismund charges trips and kills ten chaos champions and a demon prince. Then he started taking the fight seriously

BrianDavion wrote:

mrwednesday wrote:
per a recent podcast interview, ADB said Sigismund's fate will be revealed in book 2 or 3 of the Black Legion series. The general context is

Spoiler:

The Legions have been locked away in the Eye for centuries, to the point where the rest of the Imperium has assumed them destroyed let them fade into myth. The exception is the Black Templar, under the command of Sigismund, who have kept vigil over the Eye, anticipating the return of Chaos. And return they do, in the 1st Black Crusade. The Imperium is completely unprepared, the Black Templar under Sigismund's direct command are the only one available to stop them. ADB then said he had a big speech planned out for Sigismund to give Abaddon about how on the last day at the Imperial Palace Sigismund searched the battlefield high and low for Abaddon, intent on destroying him, but like a coward Abaddon hid. But Sigismund always knew he would return, and has been waiting ever since. ADB said he would move heaven and earth to make the rest of the HH team let that happen. So it is a handful of Black Templar who have been preparing for a fight for centuries holding back the entire Black Crusade until the rest of the Imperium can scramble to meet the threat.

ADB didn't reveal anything more, but like Blaxican said, Sigismund does not die well

well just because he dies in combat doesn't mean he won't die well. him not dying well would involve Abbaddaon killing him as he was delivering the speech

Rustican wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Sigismund charges trips and kills ten chaos champions and a demon prince. Then he started taking the fight seriously

Fixed it for you.

 mattyrm wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

mrwednesday wrote:
per a recent podcast interview, ADB said Sigismund's fate will be revealed in book 2 or 3 of the Black Legion series. The general context is

Spoiler:

The Legions have been locked away in the Eye for centuries, to the point where the rest of the Imperium has assumed them destroyed let them fade into myth. The exception is the Black Templar, under the command of Sigismund, who have kept vigil over the Eye, anticipating the return of Chaos. And return they do, in the 1st Black Crusade. The Imperium is completely unprepared, the Black Templar under Sigismund's direct command are the only one available to stop them. ADB then said he had a big speech planned out for Sigismund to give Abaddon about how on the last day at the Imperial Palace Sigismund searched the battlefield high and low for Abaddon, intent on destroying him, but like a coward Abaddon hid. But Sigismund always knew he would return, and has been waiting ever since. ADB said he would move heaven and earth to make the rest of the HH team let that happen. So it is a handful of Black Templar who have been preparing for a fight for centuries holding back the entire Black Crusade until the rest of the Imperium can scramble to meet the threat.

ADB didn't reveal anything more, but like Blaxican said, Sigismund does not die well

well just because he dies in combat doesn't mean he won't die well. him not dying well would involve Abbaddaon killing him as he was delivering the speech

Yeah exactly, its a staple of fantasy! Dying well is where some grizzled old battle king finally dies after being surrounded by 10 foes and killing 8 of them.

Druss the Legend was ultimately killed by a poisoned blade, but he died well. He killed fifty of his enemies, split the skull of someone who was mocking him as he died by throwing his axe through his head, and then dropped down dead.

That is a grand death.

Sigismund will indeed meet his death eventually, all soldiers do in the end. But I guarantee he will die well, men like him always do.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
I think a lot of you guys are still stuck in the "failbaddon" meme. Abaddon was considered one of the big bad fighters in the Great Crusade. Don't you think there's a reason that he's the most powerful IC in the game?

As for Sigismund, how else do you want him to die? Getting Stabbed in the back by some chump we've never heard of? Getting shot in the face by a Cultist? And as for him being alive, this is 40K. In another setting sure but in 40K the hero doesn't send the bad guy packing and live happily ever after, he might stave off 1 threat only to fall to the endless others that plague humanity.

the ancient wrote:
Sigismund is a meat head.
He disobeyed his father, And in that regard he was no longer trust worthy. When the Imperium is tearing itself apart, would you want some you couldn't trust next to you?

brother marcus wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Sigismund is a meat head.
He disobeyed his father, And in that regard he was no longer trust worthy. When the Imperium is tearing itself apart, would you want some you couldn't trust next to you?

That's not the reason he was disowned by dorn. It was because he chose his fate of not dying in the phall system by perturabo (instead he found polux who whooped his ass) and listened to a witch betraying the emperors truth.

Dorn obviously still trusted sigismund because he left him in control of the defense whilst the emperors strike force teleported into the vengeful spirit. Also making him emperors champion and leading the black Templars after girlymans codex rule, dorn obviously still trusted him :p

 kronk wrote:
So when is the ADB Black Legion series coming out? I guess I've been out of the loop!