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I don't like playing against Tau, I played my Tau army and didn't like playing them too much. I'm painting GK now, see how I fare.

Well I play BA, so any high-tier list, and high tier codices.

Nowadays new orks give me trouble. I used to rely on devastating furious charges on isolated ork mobs resulting in sweeping advances. Now the new mob rule stops that sometimes. Half the time if there's a character still in with the boys. An ork player that I got into the game 3 years ago who has never beaten me in some 40 games, beat me with new orks thanks to new mob rule stopping me from sweeping a warboss + nobs + painboy unit.

As a Dark Eldar player, I will also say Tau. It seems like EVERYTHING in their codex can either ignore cover or LOS. Or in the case of SMS, both. Playing against Eldar is no fun either, but at least I feel like, I stand a chance against them if I out maneuver them (read: hide behind LOS-blocking terrain until I can try to assault). Against Tau, once they get within SMS range, I feel like the game is pretty much over. I know the standard solution to Tau is just to assault them, but with everything twin-linked, plus Supporting Fire, surviving overwatch against a Tau gun line is a dicey proposition for an army as fragile as DE. To be clear, I'm not saying Tau are OP. I just wish they didn't have quite so many options available to them which ignore a few core BRB game mechanics. Tau players might say that they cannot take THAT many marker lights or THAT many SMS, but much like Wave Serpents, it only takes a handful to tip the scales decidedly towards one side before the game has even started.

sweetbacon wrote:
As a Dark Eldar player, I will also say Tau. It seems like EVERYTHING in their codex can either ignore cover or LOS. Or in the case of SMS, both. Playing against Eldar is no fun either, but at least I feel like, I stand a chance against them if I out maneuver them (read: hide behind LOS-blocking terrain until I can try to assault). Against Tau, once they get within SMS range, I feel like the game is pretty much over. I know the standard solution to Tau is just to assault them, but with everything twin-linked, plus Supporting Fire, surviving overwatch against a Tau gun line is a dicey proposition for an army as fragile as DE. To be clear, I'm not saying Tau are OP. I just wish they didn't have quite so many options available to them which ignore a few core BRB game mechanics. Tau players might say that they cannot take THAT many marker lights or THAT many SMS, but much like Wave Serpents, it only takes a handful to tip the scales decidedly towards one side before the game has even started.

This. Have all of my exalts. There's so many times where yeah, my termies get their 2+ armor saves, but against 40 shots, I'll probably fail at least four.

 doomdreamer wrote:
Tau Player, I also not a great player.

Necrons crush me. The only person who plays them turns his lists up to hyper competitive mode. So I always have 6 Wraiths with their 3++ wipping my army.

My friend with CSM does very well against me. I think we are tied.

I wipe regular Space Marines off the table. I wipe GK off the table. Haven't played much else to be honest.

I wonder what kind of tactics those GK players were using because I never had that much trouble with Tau.

I have never won against IG(or AM if preferred). Seems I can never have enough to take down all the fliers and tanks. usually 10+ vehicles. It is just never a fun match when IG/AM is involved.

 Envihon wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Tau Player, I also not a great player.

Necrons crush me. The only person who plays them turns his lists up to hyper competitive mode. So I always have 6 Wraiths with their 3++ wipping my army.

My friend with CSM does very well against me. I think we are tied.

I wipe regular Space Marines off the table. I wipe GK off the table. Haven't played much else to be honest.

I wonder what kind of tactics those GK players were using because I never had that much trouble with Tau.

I agree... If he is "wiping vanilla marines and gk off the table" his opponents must not know what their doing, or he is playing a hyper competitive list while they play fluff.

Necrons are really the only army I have struggled with as I just cant ever seem to get things to go my way most of the time (that and Wraith Wall is a pain in the butt). Other then that some Eldar lists I have trouble with but I have never had trouble beating the Tau and have a lot of fun playing with a pure Crisis Suit list. Maybe you guys who don't like playing with Tau should just try something that is not a Gunline list?

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Araenion wrote:
I play a hybrid Eldar force and my bane are AV13 wall Crons.

How? I played a hybrid list, which didn't use any wraith units or anything "cheesy", and he still wiped out my vehicles just fine. Don't Dark Reapers ignore Jink specifically?

Yes, they do. They're also one of the most effective things at taking out skimmers in the game, so maybe that's why you lost. I don't field them, because they don't fit the current army I run. My games against Cron AV13 walls have either gone with a dominating victory for me, or for my opponents. Since both my opponents and me are around the same skill level and know our own armies well, it usually comes down to how many 6's they'll roll and how many 2+ saves I'll roll T1. The reason they're my bane is because I haven't found a way to beat them with superior tactics, rather than dice. Their firepower, mobility, durability and counter-charge potential makes them a tough army to face.

Honestly GK is my bane. I have literally never won a match against them with either WS or Nids. Our local guy has even toned down his lists because we stopped playing them. He used to run razor/ psyfledread spam and destroy everything.
His more recent lists feature more ground troops but he took a new liking to interceptor squads. He has actually tried to legitimately tone down his force but still I just can't catch a break against him. Worst part is every time he is very worried about the coming fight and expects to lose but never does. Though I haven't had a game against him with my Scars for a while now. Need to put that to the test against him. Nids haven't had an honest game in a while as the last one featured a IK and then Minotaur allies. In a list that was the complete perfect counter to my nids list. That was also the game that I found out how ridiculous the new Cleansing flame is.

I play clan raukaan iron hands with their immortal chapter master of doom, and i say that not even tau gunline can kill him(i once saved cca 60 WOUNDS!! in overwatch and then roflstomped him in CC) but eldar ALWAYS tear me 7 new a-holes. Even better mobility and while They aren't as choppy in CC they are way more shooty, and unless i kill their entire unit before initiative 1 scumbags will hit and run to shoot the ever loving **** out of me AGAIN!! All i can say about them is not EVEN 2+/3++ 3+ FNP Eternal warrior 4 wounds and T5 help ... only thing i can think of to beat eldar is to sell a kidney and buy a reaver titan

 gmaleron wrote:
Necrons are really the only army I have struggled with as I just cant ever seem to get things to go my way most of the time (that and Wraith Wall is a pain in the butt). Other then that some Eldar lists I have trouble with but I have never had trouble beating the Tau and have a lot of fun playing with a pure Crisis Suit list. Maybe you guys who don't like playing with Tau should just try something that is not a Gunline list?

I've never once ran a gunline army and I'm pretty sure that most of us here aren't stupid enough to try and outshoot tau. I have used

WS bike army with CC deathstar/super CM and pod and raven support
Drop pod CF with dual ravens, sternguard in abundance and centstar.
DoA BA with psykers galore.
BA vehicle spam
Necron AV 13 fliers 2 NS, 2 DS with wraithstar
Mechanized traitor IG

Now I have won a few games against tau with the scars and the crons, but both are top tier builds that aren't exactly exhilerating to play and if I want to get a second game in after tau my opponent will not be having much fun. I usually have to run semi-cheese to have a decent chance at beating a "good" tau list. Not tourney quality, not even triptide. Just good.

Lshowell wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Tau Player, I also not a great player.

Necrons crush me. The only person who plays them turns his lists up to hyper competitive mode. So I always have 6 Wraiths with their 3++ wipping my army.

My friend with CSM does very well against me. I think we are tied.

I wipe regular Space Marines off the table. I wipe GK off the table. Haven't played much else to be honest.

I wonder what kind of tactics those GK players were using because I never had that much trouble with Tau.

I agree... If he is "wiping vanilla marines and gk off the table" his opponents must not know what their doing, or he is playing a hyper competitive list while they play fluff.

I don't like how either option insults at least one player. GK was doing Draigo Wing w/ Paladins. He didn't have enough models on the table to secure objectives and fight off crisis suits.

 doomdreamer wrote:

Lshowell wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Tau Player, I also not a great player.

Necrons crush me. The only person who plays them turns his lists up to hyper competitive mode. So I always have 6 Wraiths with their 3++ wipping my army.

My friend with CSM does very well against me. I think we are tied.

I wipe regular Space Marines off the table. I wipe GK off the table. Haven't played much else to be honest.

I wonder what kind of tactics those GK players were using because I never had that much trouble with Tau.

I agree... If he is "wiping vanilla marines and gk off the table" his opponents must not know what their doing, or he is playing a hyper competitive list while they play fluff.

I don't like how either option insults at least one player. GK was doing Draigo Wing w/ Paladins. He didn't have enough models on the table to secure objectives and fight off crisis suits.

That explains a lot. That is the reason why I never was comfortable with Draigowing. Sure it is a unit that has a lot of durability but less mobility compared to other kinds of lists. To me, Mordrak and Ghost Knights with a support Librarian out classes Draigowing in the amount of cost/benefit ratio. GK have to contend with already have a small model count and to put it down even more with running Draigowing, to me you are gambling at that point more than using tactics. It's a fun play style but doesn't have reliability. I had to learn that the hard way with getting tabled and the large amounts of reformatting I have done to make an army now that I am comfortable with and stands on their own.

IG, the tankline version.

Not scared of Eldar, Tau, Daemons, IK, other Necron armies, but that IG tankline has crushed me almost every time I have played it (and I don't mean "beat" me, I mean "crushed" me)

I'm entering a tournament with a couple three guys I know are goint to bring a version of this build, so finally my chance for vengeance is at hand!

What army do you play and what about the IG tankline crushes you so much?

Eldar is toughest no doubt.

A moderately skilled Eldar player can simply plop 4 wave serpents and a wraithknight on the table. This affords him great mobility, toughness and firepower. They can play to the missions and kill your army off simultaneously.

Tau is powerful but requires some serious skill to play well. If the Tau player makes a mistake it can be really costly for them.

 Envihon wrote:
What army do you play and what about the IG tankline crushes you so much?

Well, its been quite a while since I played this type of army. I play Necrons. Last time I played this kind of army, I wasn't aware yet of some of the better anti-armor tricks up the Necron's sleeves, most notably Destrukteks (I was just starting to play 40k pretty much). I was relying on Gauss shooting and Scarabs/Spyders, however the scarabs would get toasted before they could make contact, and I had to get my Gauss within 12" to be super-duper effective, and if I tried sneaky tricks to get them there (veils or nightscythes) the rest of my army got wasted, and I'd be playing with half an army. And all the while I'm trying to move into good shooting range, the tank line would just sit there and blast whatever I had on the table to smithereens with high test long-range weaponry.

Now that I know what I know now, I crave vengeance!

 scommy wrote:
Eldar is toughest no doubt.

A moderately skilled Eldar player can simply plop 4 wave serpents and a wraithknight on the table. This affords him great mobility, toughness and firepower. They can play to the missions and kill your army off simultaneously.

Tau is powerful but requires some serious skill to play well. If the Tau player makes a mistake it can be really costly for them.

Wraithknights and Serpents are beastly. Now this is just a SM fix but wouldn't grav weapons take care of a wraithknight pretty well?

My bugs hate DE. I don't thin I have won a singel game against pure DE. Hybrid lists of DE/plus someone else I can beat, but pure DE just clean house on me.

Eldar vs mono nurgle are the hardest i've fought so far T5 and FNP army wide is nasty. Even our Tau player got spanked by them.

kryczek wrote:
Eldar vs mono nurgle are the hardest i've fought so far T5 and FNP army wide is nasty. Even our Tau player got spanked by them.

Oh, I know how that feels. Nothing to instant kill infantry plus all the cover and invul saves they have and on top of that FNP...I do hate Nurgle armies with a passion.

I'm surprised not a single person has mentioned drop pod marine armies yet. At my FLGS i run 5-7 pod ultramarine alpha strike pod lists, and a few other guys run pods as well. We all consistently place in the top 5 and are always in the running for cash prizes in the monthly league. They certainly hate marines there. I guess 3+armor save across an entire army that can blow anything off the board before you get a chance to shoot at it doesn't bother most other people. As for me, I hate any army with FMCs whether it is a flyrant knocking off a 5 man squad each shooting phase, or deamon princes, or bel'akor it most likely isn't going to die against my army. So in general my worst matchups are tyranids, daemons, and IG. These armies are the best at bubble-wrapping high priority targets that my alpha strike can't get to. So I spend my first turn firing 40 marines at a blob of gaunts, pink horrors, cultists, or guardsmen because the rest of the army is impossible to reach due to clever positioning and spreading across the entire board. These games always rely on late game objective grabbing and hoping I don't get tabled.

Tau. I can handle eldar, demons and necrons. Tau are the one army I can't seem to beat no matter which mission, deployment type, who goes first or what list I field. They just keep shooting until I'm tabled. I'm not a big fan of the fact that they basically ignore the BRB.

 Araenion wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Araenion wrote:
I play a hybrid Eldar force and my bane are AV13 wall Crons.

How? I played a hybrid list, which didn't use any wraith units or anything "cheesy", and he still wiped out my vehicles just fine. Don't Dark Reapers ignore Jink specifically?

Yes, they do. They're also one of the most effective things at taking out skimmers in the game, so maybe that's why you lost. I don't field them, because they don't fit the current army I run. My games against Cron AV13 walls have either gone with a dominating victory for me, or for my opponents. Since both my opponents and me are around the same skill level and know our own armies well, it usually comes down to how many 6's they'll roll and how many 2+ saves I'll roll T1. The reason they're my bane is because I haven't found a way to beat them with superior tactics, rather than dice. Their firepower, mobility, durability and counter-charge potential makes them a tough army to face.

Well, to clear it up, I actually won that game I was referring to, with a huge margin in VPs at the end, but I was just saying. Eldar seem to always have something to counter everything is my problem. Plus, Eldar are one of my Bane's, only because the people in my area (other than the guy I played in the mentioned game) usually runs a Wraithknight and wraith units. So, unless I get lucky with Deathmarks, I have very little effective defense against T8 things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
My bugs hate DE. I don't thin I have won a singel game against pure DE. Hybrid lists of DE/plus someone else I can beat, but pure DE just clean house on me.

I've played a mixed bag list of Tyranids, which I've had great success with against most armies, even Space Marines and Tau. But good god, I've played I think, 4 games against my Dark Eldar friend. I've lost 3 times and tied once. There's just no fun to be had.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kryczek wrote:
Eldar vs mono nurgle are the hardest i've fought so far T5 and FNP army wide is nasty. Even our Tau player got spanked by them.

Eh, I find that hard to believe, unless someone was rolling really well or really poor. FNP army wide would require pretty much nothing but plague marines, which then they're just tarpit units, and they're expensive as hell. I'm not saying Nurgle is bad, though, I just find it hard to believe.

My Ultramarines don't like Armour 13/14 spam. I've got melta weapons, but the key is keeping them alive.

 Random Dude wrote:
My Ultramarines don't like Armour 13/14 spam. I've got melta weapons, but the key is keeping them alive.

Well, Grav Guns, melta bombs, lascannons, you guys have many options for dealing with vehicles. Plus, Drop Pods!! >.<

Out of the seven armies my Gravcannons have played against, the only thing I've lost to is Dark Eldar/Eldar plinking away at me from long range. That, and my Sponge CM dying in one round of shooting.

In fact, the only two games I've lost (if you include the 10~ games I've played with it so far) have been to some variety of elf. Of course, I haven't had the dubious honor of playing a Tau army with it yet, so we'll see.

Crazyterran wrote:
Out of the seven armies my Gravcannons have played against, the only thing I've lost to is Dark Eldar/Eldar plinking away at me from long range. That, and my Sponge CM dying in one round of shooting.

In fact, the only two games I've lost (if you include the 10~ games I've played with it so far) have been to some variety of elf. Of course, I haven't had the dubious honor of playing a Tau army with it yet, so we'll see.

Now, how many Grav guns do you bring?

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
My Ultramarines don't like Armour 13/14 spam. I've got melta weapons, but the key is keeping them alive.

Well, Grav Guns, melta bombs, lascannons, you guys have many options for dealing with vehicles. Plus, Drop Pods!! >.<

In my 1500 list I've got mostly plasma guns, a few melta guns, thunderhammers, and melta bombs.