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Fantasy Flight Games. They would make much more balanced rules. Of course, I would like to see GW continue to manufacture the models. If there's only one thing they know how to do, It's making models.

Just sack the upper management.
Would a buyout be the only way to do that?
Does it matter that a gaming company buys them? If the middle managers can tell them how it worked under the current lot, it should be a big enough change to the current.
GW appear to be the only people who don't know what the internet is, or how to use it, and customer engagement would also change a huge amount.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
The chances of GW allowing blizzard to buy them out is about as likely as Donald Sterling selling the clips to magic Johnson.

Who says they have a choice? GW is a publicly owned company and more than 51% of their shares are owned by investment banks and other people who have no ties to the company. If Blizzard makes an acceptable offer GW will be sold.

GW is a private limited company. Which means its shares are not available to the public.

GW is a PLC, that means a Public Limited Company and its shares are publicly bought and sold at the London Stock Exchange:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/financialHighlights?symbol=GAW.L

 WarOne wrote:
No one.

No one would buy out GW.

I'd figure Hasbro would, but GW has an inflated opinion of itself; absorbing the IP and business would probably value a buyout of GW in

its entirety for hundreds of millions of dollars. An impractical number despite the comparative revenues (4 billion vs .15 billion)

and would hardly be worth Hasbro's time given they already dominate their market niche and need nothing else to propel them forward.

If GW were to go bankrupt, I'd bet that the IP would sell for several million and everything else about their gamse will be divided up

between other investors looking at other things than making GW products.

Exactly. No company would buy out GW. This is actually good news.

(It could always get worse with another company owning the IP.)


But the crowd could.

No one can light the Astronomicon alone, or can he?

Just like no one was the warmaster of the great crusade (before Horus).


Oh the irony. This is what I call a "golden" opportunity.


What I propose is what I call Apocalyptic Crowd Funding:


1. Create a non-profit foundation (like the Blender Foundation f.ex., just call it the Wargames or Emperor Foundation)

http://www.blender.org/foundation/

2. Buy a sales option contract for the IP package from GW (fixed price) via regular crowdfunding.

3. Raise the millions for the buy out via Apocalyptic Crowd Funding and buy the IP.

4. Then make Warhammer / Warhammer 40k free to play(like Linux, Blender) and funded by donations / optional sales.


Models could then be printed by personal 3d-printers (open source 3d-data), by external 3d-printing companies or bought directly from the foundation.

Digital editions (rules, fluff, model-data) would then be free(GPL-like license) forever just like Linux.

Big Founders could be Heroes of the Imperium forever etc.


No one could ever be priced out of the hobby with an expensive new rulebook / price hike.

The Horus of GW-Vendor-Lock-In could then be completely erased from time and space...



Start a galaxy spanning WAAAAGH!!! Bring on the Great / Dark Crusade. For the Greater Good!!!

The allies matrix is now irrelevant. This is...


T H E A P O C A L Y P S E O F G W ! ! !

http://youtu.be/tA3dzBrXYtc

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
The chances of GW allowing blizzard to buy them out is about as likely as Donald Sterling selling the clips to magic Johnson.

Who says they have a choice? GW is a publicly owned company and more than 51% of their shares are owned by investment banks and other people who have no ties to the company. If Blizzard makes an acceptable offer GW will be sold.

GW is a private limited company. Which means its shares are not available to the public.

Uhm... no.

GW is publicly held and traded on the London stock exchange - that is why the stock was able to lose 30% of its value inside of a week, as stockholders dropped the GW stock, and later the auto sales kicked in as it continued to fall.

Privately held companies have a different set of advantages and disadvantages.....

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Phantom Viper beat me to it....

Quite. Now if you'd all like to disembark from the bandwagon of proving me wrong, and continue the discussion that'd be nice.

 Peregrine wrote:

 WarOne wrote:
I'd figure Hasbro would, but GW has an inflated opinion of itself; absorbing the IP and business would probably value a buyout of GW in its entirety for hundreds of millions of dollars.

But that's at their current state. In theory all it would take would be a bad financial report that crashes the stock price and suddenly the cost of owning GW is a lot more reasonable. And remember that a majority of GW's shares are held by investment banks that don't really care about the details of the business. If Hasbro shows up with a reasonable offer for stock in a company that isn't doing too well I could easily see them cutting their losses, and even GW's management might realize that it's better to take what they're offered now and not risk letting the value of the company drop even lower.

Hasbro would have to do an analysis and see what is most profitable to do with GW if GW were to tank.

Theoretically, I'd let GW go and then bid out the IP against other competitors, perhaps also go after their manufacturing techniques or what have you or anything else I'd deem profitable.

For the amount of money GW generates, they don't make a lot back in terms of profits. Cutting out chunks of the company without personally having to do it would be the best case scenario when/if GW liquidates.

I don't know why Hasbro keeps coming up, yes they bought WOTC and they didn't have to *change* anything. All Hasbro had to do was sit back and collect money instead of deal with a failing company which has been mismanaged for the last 10 years, antagonizes it fanbase and shows little concern for gutting their IP.

I didn't see Hasbro rushing to buy any failed card game companies.

Hasbro gets mentioned because they either have, or have access to the required working capital to purchase GW. Their mindset would not work with GW in my opinion. All of their mini games are base on prepainted random boxes. Neither of those will work with the current GW fan base.

jbunny wrote:
Hasbro gets mentioned because they either have, or have access to the required working capital to purchase GW. Their mindset would not work with GW in my opinion. All of their mini games are base on prepainted random boxes. Neither of those will work with the current GW fan base.

Actually, the current Hasbro team is very interested in the custom paint and assembly figure side of things. They spent a long time at BotCon asking well known customizers what they could do to make customization of their products easier to bring it to new, younger customers, they just opened their new Shapeways department, albeit so far only with MLP designers, and just started hyping their new version of their "Design Your Own Ponies"(they've had Paint Your Own Ponies for years, actually).

 Platuan4th wrote:

jbunny wrote:
Hasbro gets mentioned because they either have, or have access to the required working capital to purchase GW. Their mindset would not work with GW in my opinion. All of their mini games are base on prepainted random boxes. Neither of those will work with the current GW fan base.

Actually, the current Hasbro team is very interested in the custom paint and assembly figure side of things. They spent a long time at BotCon asking well known customizers what they could do to make customization of their products easier to bring it to new, younger customers, they just opened their new Shapeways department, albeit so far only with MLP designers, and just started hyping their new version of their "Design Your Own Ponies"(they've had Paint Your Own Ponies for years, actually).

And Hasbro has tried to find a niche in the miniatures department. DnD minis were a thing for a time but they fell by the wayside with the 4th edition change over and fethed their whole community base that was strictly for the skirmish level games of DnD that came along with the miniatures.

It might be pretty cool to see WHFB become DnDFB....

StraightSilver wrote:
Personally i think the best company to buy out GW would be GW.

In other words the company buys back all of its shares and ceases being a PLC and goes back to GW Ltd.

They were a much, much better company when they weren't beholden to share holders.

However it is highly unlikely that will ever happen and to be honest highly unlikely that anybody will buy them.

Completely agree with this.

Pretty much any fault you can find with GW these days you can rest on the fact that it is the 'suits' (those in the sales team and that have no interest in the product) making all of the decisions. Occasionally a good release (that satisfies the powers that be) squeezes its way through, but the hit rate is substantially lower than in previous times.

Failing that, probably Mantic, who are basically mostly made up of people who used to be in GW anyway, and at least seem to be releasing stuff that people want and identifying the holes in the wargaming marketplace.

Note however, that even with the best of intentions this probably isn't going to happen until at least 2024, when Mantic will themselves have transformed into GW mk2

This thread again?

Anyway, I'm thinking Bandai (the Japanese HQ, not the foreign branches). They're an absolute business powerhouse, with connections to hundreds of companies in all sorts of sectors- no doubt they have (or could easily acquire) someone experienced in writing rules. They're also one of the biggest, most respected model companies in the world and are leading innovators in model kit engineering.

Also, just think. S.H. Monsterarts Carnifexes, fully-articulated Gunpla-style Dreadnoughts, and an official (and good) Space Marine poseable figure.

jbunny wrote:
Hasbro gets mentioned because they either have, or have access to the required working capital to purchase GW. Their mindset would not work with GW in my opinion. All of their mini games are base on prepainted random boxes. Neither of those will work with the current GW fan base.

No, Hasbro's mindset is "make money". They just happened to think that a line of prepainted random-box miniatures was a good idea for making money. I think they have the sense to understand what makes GW work and not try to change things too much, as they've done with MTG.

 Peregrine wrote:
They just happened to think that a line of prepainted random-box miniatures was a good idea for making money.

And to be fair, they were partly right. They didn't stop making Star Wars Minis because they weren't selling.

Kangodo wrote:

The most important thing is that they seem to understand that our greatest hobby is playing WH40k, and not buying it

THAT is what the company needs to understand, whomever that might be.

WotC fosho. 40k with good rules - the dream.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
This thread again?

Anyway, I'm thinking Bandai (the Japanese HQ, not the foreign branches). They're an absolute business powerhouse, with connections to hundreds of companies in all sorts of sectors- no doubt they have (or could easily acquire) someone experienced in writing rules. They're also one of the biggest, most respected model companies in the world and are leading innovators in model kit engineering.

Also, just think. S.H. Monsterarts Carnifexes, fully-articulated Gunpla-style Dreadnoughts, and an official (and good) Space Marine poseable figure.

+1

Gunpla is a collectors hobby, but Bandai could take it a step further by turning it into a table-top game. GW has experience and a large market share in table-top gaming, which Bandai could use to develop and market their own tabletop version game. On top of that, 40k players are used to collecting and building models, which mirrors that of collecting and building Gunpla. Not only will Bandai acquire a western company with similar products as their own, but they'll also acquire customers and fanbase, which maybe interested in collecting and building whatever Bandai makes.

And yes, more articulation will be cool as will having walkers that transform into flyers.

 Random Dude wrote:
Fantasy Flight Games. They would make much more balanced rules. Of course, I would like to see GW continue to manufacture the models. If there's only one thing they know how to do, It's making models.

Surely this is in jest?

I mean, if there is a company which makes sloppier, less balanced rulesets than GW, it's FFG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StraightSilver wrote:
Personally i think the best company to buy out GW would be GW.

In other words the company buys back all of its shares and ceases being a PLC and goes back to GW Ltd.

They were a much, much better company when they weren't beholden to share holders.

However it is highly unlikely that will ever happen and to be honest highly unlikely that anybody will buy them.

I don't think it would be legally possible either: companies, in general, can't own their own stock. Now, one or some of the GW's owners could of course buy all the stock and turn the company back to private.

WotC/Hasbro is the usual obvious choice, as they already have the money, the staff, and the manufacturing resources to do so.

While I would love it if Fantasy Flight Games or various other game companies (Mantic, etc.) took over, that's not gonna happen unless the GW stock price tanks down to less than a $1 a share.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
We have this discussion at least once a month, minimum. Cliffs notes of my usual comments:
Hasbro ruined Marvel Legends action figures, and Hasbro is responsible for all those crappy preprinted plastics (heroclix, D&D minis). If Hasbro gets GW, it'll be bad. You guys wanting it are still fools. Hasbro does cards fine. Keep them away from minis.

If that's still too long for some...Hasbro can suck it.

Hasbro doesn't own HeroClix, WizKids does. WizKids has zero connection to Wizards of the Coast. Aside from the early D&D Minis and their distribution method, Hasbro's prepaints are held in high regard throughout a large section of gamers. There were a LOT of people sad to see Star Wars Minis go away.

Also, it's your opinion Hasbro ruined Marvel Legends, and far from fact. I actually prefer the 3.5 inch series over the old ones and the Infinite series is on plate to over us an even better replacement(we're getting freaking DEATH'S HEAD).

Hasbro got rid of the comics, changed to an inferior plastic compound, had worse color mixture and increased the price. All of those actually ARE fact, not my opinion. A decrease of quality is always a negative. I don't care about the scale change, which came after all the changes I mentioned, and those aren't technically ML anyway, they're Marvel Universe, I believe. I actually LOVE the fact that they're GIJoe/SW scale. And those toys ARE of great quality. But the 6" inch ML that came about after ToyBiz stopped are absolute trash compared to their predecessors-again, all the reasons I listed are actual fact, and not opinion.

When did they come with Comics? I didn't start buying them until the first rounds of BAF Legends(I still have the Sentinel BAF, it, Blackheart, and Black Panther are the only ones I didn't get rid of), which, IIRC, was well after the wave with vehicles.

Also, I'm not seeing anything on the web about the stuff you mentioned other than removing the comics and Hasbro removing the finger joints. I honestly don't remember any inferior plastics and the only paint changes I ever noticed was less use of wash.

Seriously, though, you sound like I did when McFarlane got the Halo licence over the guys who did the toys for 1 and 2. I ranted about that kick in the crotch for years and refused to buy McFarlane's versions.

IKEA You can play 40k on the multi-functional 40K playing table sitting on IKEA chairs while eating overpriced Swedish meatball! And all instructions will be in Swedish off course

ML series 1-15 (Capt America, Toad, Hulk, Iron Man up until the BAF Apocalypse and Walmart specific Giant Man) all came with comics. The first Hasbro run that had Banshee and Ultimate Iron Man in it was the first wave without comics-the BAF Annihilus wave. And for shoddy plastic...compare Hasbro wave 2 Quicksilver against BAF Giant Man's Havoc figure: they're both the same mold for the entire body (except head), but Quicksilver's detail is incredibly soft, and feels cheap in hand-mixture of paint and plastic failure.


...I have a lot of marvel legends figures...and I really did my HW on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, not apocalypse: he was wave 14. Wave 15 was Mojo. There were still comics with the Mojo run, which was the final ToyBiz run.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
IKEA You can play 40k on the multi-functional 40K playing table sitting on IKEA chairs while eating overpriced Swedish meatball! And all instructions will be in Swedish off course

Swedish Space Marines vs. Swedish Orks? SOLD!

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
IKEA You can play 40k on the multi-functional 40K playing table sitting on IKEA chairs while eating overpriced Swedish meatball! And all instructions will be in Swedish off course

Swedish Space Marines vs. Swedish Orks? SOLD!

Oh right! Fought with the famous ferocity of the Swedish military

 Pacific wrote:


Pretty much any fault you can find with GW these days you can rest on the fact that it is the 'suits' (those in the sales team and that have no interest in the product) making all of the decisions. Occasionally a good release (that satisfies the powers that be) squeezes its way through, but the hit rate is substantially lower than in previous times.

I'm sorry but no, this just isn't true anymore.

Closing stores, hobby centers, foreign HQ, the change in WD, ending Game Days, fleeing the internet, the relations with customers and independent stores, the price rises, etc... Those are all things that can and should be put on the shoulders of the "suits", but the complete lack of quality in the rules, the change to the "random is narrative" mindset, and the falling aesthetic quality of the miniatures themselves can only be the responsibility of the design and rules development teams. They are just as incompetent in their own particular fields as the management appears to be in actually managing the company.

I'd always hoped some of the old GW management would try and buy it back, like Bryan Ansell, or some conglomerate of folk like Rick Priestly but I suspect they're all just happy to have moved on.

Backfire wrote:

Oh right! Fought with the famous ferocity of the Swedish military

Hahahahaha!