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Was editing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Does not almost every “debate” in 40k Background amounts to that anyway?

Not in the ones where the participants involved are interested in actually reaching a conclusion rather than merely validating their head-canon, no.

 Melissia wrote:
Was editing.

That seems to be the consensus.

The Inquisition on a member by member basis is one of the most varied organizations in the Imperium. They aren't regimented like the Imperial Guard or Space Marines. Every one can be very different.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
2) The Cain books are a gak source of any information-
2a) They widely contradict other information, especially Sister of Battle and Genestealers.

Yeah, like every book do. You just happen not to like Cain's version.

 Wyzilla wrote:
2b) They're a satire of 40k, begging the question of their validity.

They are humorous and satirical story set in 40k, but they happen in 40k, not in a world fashioned as a satire of 40k.

 Wyzilla wrote:
2c) Cain was probably a Living Saint, IE empowered by the GEOM and by no means an example of an average human being.

I think that theory is ridiculous because there is nothing backing it. Some people have different interpretation of the relative power level of stuff in 40k. And some people that write official stuff disagree with you. Just deal with it rather than invent crazy theory to rationalize this back into your interpretation.
Else I am going to invoke godly intervention in every quote from Black Library that you use, ever. Yeah, I can do that too.

 Wyzilla wrote:
3) Khorne Berserkers are only example of extremely gakky combatants, considering the entire style of Khorne is 'raging berserker', meaning they probably telegraph their moves and probably lack any form of combat to begin with.

Uh, yeah, certainly…
That just goes against everything I ever read about Khorne and its followers, I guess.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Y'know, if you actually don't know anything about a subject, maybe you shouldn't even talk about?

Thank you for that sound advice.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The problem also that you don't even seem to comprehend on any level is how fast Eldar and Astartes are. Do you even know what microseconds are? Because if you don't, it's pointless talking to you as you cannot actually grasp the point and why Astartes have to be just as fast as Eldar in order to actually fight them 1 on 1.

Yeah, great, the problem is that I am too stupid. Therefore I do not understand the intricate arcane of physics of some made-up scy-fy magic universe. Sorry about that. Good thing you actually know the truth, and therefore can enlighten me about, well, the fact a microsecond is 10^-6 second. Which changes everything, really.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Genestealers - what element is wrong in the Cain novels?

Cain kill some. Maybe his companion do so too. You cannot have that, only marines are allowed to kill genestealer .

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Oh, so now you think I'm racist? Dark skinned people on average are faster than most other people. But let's not veer off topic.

Never heard about that, and it seems very dubious. Extremely dubious.
I mean, especially since there are so many different types that would qualify as “dark skinned”…

 Ashiraya wrote:
You really want to support a comic where a Terminator tanks TONS of Dark Eldar fire and then oneshots them in return with his heavy flamer?

Not a terminator. Au tauminator.
I said that part was a good representation of how a fight between a dark eldar and a marine should go: one is way faster and more skilled, the other one is much tougher and stronger. Do you disagree? Or do you want to infer from that that I consider everything ever portrayed in this unofficial webcomic as the only official canon? I am not sure what you mean here.

Dubious? What's so dubious? I believe you know who I mean. Black people. They are factually faster than white people. I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.

My point. I am extremely good at football. The black guy I was lined up against was sooooo much faster than me, but I played the game better. I won because I knew how to play him.

Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war, they are much better in combat. DE can be as fast as they want but SM's will predict their movements. Keep in mind that SM have superior vision so they will be able to keep up with the DE's blurring motion.

Your making several mistakes here.

1) Drop the reference to race or color, it makes no difference. Unless you are saying All people of one such are faster then others, which is of course wrong, then it's misleading to say so. ''The other Guy i was lined up against was soooo much faster then me'' still gets the point across and is not racially insensitive.

2) This is the internet. Keep your real world applications and anecdotes to yourself, few people care and fewer still will take what you say at face value.

3) Why are you referring to an ENTIRE RACE OF TRILLIONS of Dark Eldar with a sweeping statement? Space Marines are better at war then Dark Eldar, considering the majority are slaves or parched or gangers you are right. But that is a terribly stupid and inconclusive statement. Space Marines are better at War then a Kabalite Warrior (Also Better at war? that isn't very descriptive) then that would make more sense, and also be of dubious truth.

4) Superior Vision? To who, The Dark Eldar? Because that is just plain wrong, the fluff makes a point of the Eldar Races senses being far better then any other. Or is this just another of your vague sweeping statements?

5) Can we forget about this non-cannon fan fiction? It is in no way relevent to the actual fluff, it was merely someone pointing out how they think it would go. And for the record, the best representation of Eldar vs Marines i've seen which is fair to both is the Dawn of War intro scene. Specifically 1:06-1:08

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Your making several mistakes here.

1) Drop the reference to race or color, it makes no difference. Unless you are saying All people of one such are faster then others, which is of course wrong, then it's misleading to say so. ''The other Guy i was lined up against was soooo much faster then me'' still gets the point across and is not racially insensitive.

2) This is the internet. Keep your real world applications and anecdotes to yourself, few people care and fewer still will take what you say at face value.

3) Why are you referring to an ENTIRE RACE OF TRILLIONS of Dark Eldar with a sweeping statement? Space Marines are better at war then Dark Eldar, considering the majority are slaves or parched or gangers you are right. But that is a terribly stupid and inconclusive statement. Space Marines are better at War then a Kabalite Warrior (Also Better at war? that isn't very descriptive) then that would make more sense, and also be of dubious truth.

4) Superior Vision? To who, The Dark Eldar? Because that is just plain wrong, the fluff makes a point of the Eldar Races senses being far better then any other. Or is this just another of your vague sweeping statements?

5) Can we forget about this non-cannon fan fiction? It is in no way relevent to the actual fluff, it was merely someone pointing out how they think it would go. And for the record, the best representation of Eldar vs Marines i've seen which is fair to both is the Dawn of War intro scene. Specifically 1:06-1:08

First of all, I was not saying all black people are faster then whites, only that they are on average, faster. It is fact and if you deny you are simply in denial.

Secondly, yet again, on average marines are better in combat. Yes Eldar have tremendous senses but so do SM's. They're superhuman for a reason. That Dawn of War intro was as idiotic as the one with those marines charging into a horde of orks for no reason and getting slaughtered. It does not support the way marines are explained in canon.

@Lord Tarkin

In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
@Lord Tarkin

In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.

Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
@Lord Tarkin

In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.

Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.

Also, that was a damn Farseer (Who are all extremely mighty psykers) who zapped the helmetless Marine, and he just tanked it like a boss for several seconds without even being damaged.

Also includes the usual 'paper power armour' syndrome, the dread mysteriously disappearing after his dramatic entrance...

The DoWII intro is cool, but its adherence to the fluff is questionable at best.

Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
@Lord Tarkin

In what way was that not how marines work? It's exactly how they work, they use a Combined Arms strategy to defeat a more skilled enemy.

Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Edit: speaking of that disgrace of a 40k video, that marine took a sword through the gut and cries in pain as he dies. I had just created a thread the other day discussing a SM tolerance to pain. Conlcusion was: SM feels know pain. I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.

Also, that was a damn Farseer (Who are all extremely mighty psykers) who zapped the helmetless Marine, and he just tanked it like a boss for several seconds without even being damaged.

Also includes the usual 'paper power armour' syndrome, the dread mysteriously disappearing after his dramatic entrance...

The DoWII intro is cool, but its adherence to the fluff is questionable at best.

Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.

Exactly. What the hell happened to that dread? Kills 2 eldar and gone? Like, I enjoyed the beginning of the video. It was the combat scenes I hated.

Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!

 Ashiraya wrote:
Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!

Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.

I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!

Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.

I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.

He wasn't, he was a Force Commander. And the lack of actual force field, and lack of halo on the backpack, showed that he had no Iron Halo.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Like, I could buy the Marine tanking it usually, if the Farseer used a minor power or was exhausted or something. But this was two seconds after oneshotting another Marine!

Very true, although I do believe he was Lord Commander or something so it wouldn't have been inconceivable for him to possess an Iron Halo.

I just was dumbfounded with how weak those marines were. They were pathetic.

He wasn't, he was a Force Commander. And the lack of actual force field, and lack of halo on the backpack, showed that he had no Iron Halo.

Oh, then I don't know how he was any tougher than that other marine who seemed to die so easily. Inconsistent to say the least.

Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.

Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.

Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)

There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.

Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)

There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.

It seemed more like plot armour than plot weaponry. Both sides made more mistakes and died faster than they would have fluffwise.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because he was supposed to cut down the Farseer.

Literal plot armour (Or was it the Farseer who had a plot weapon?)

There was, imo, too much plot armour for both sides. I personally believe the creators didn't want Eldar players getting their panties in a bunch because "the mean SM's" were slaughtering their army. If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby. SM's would not have even been detered with how many Eldar were present in that video. In fluff, those marines would not have split up like they did in the video. They would have stood shoulder to shoulder to keep from having one of their number overwhelmed. That heavy bolter that died in the video wouldn't have died if he had a brother by his side to give him aid. They looked like a bunch of mindless thugs charging into combat. I was disappointed to the extreme.

It seemed more like plot armour than plot weaponry. Both sides made more mistakes and died faster than they would have fluffwise.

Pretty much, yeah. Every Dawn of War video I have ever seen, absolutely sucked. I want some ACTUAL fluff depicting videos, not some half ass clips of nonsense. Don't get me started on the video with the marines and orks.

Anyway, we are a bit off topic but there you have it. Disappointing.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Sergeant Johnson was not facing your average Deldar, either.

And Sergeant Johnson is not your average space marine sergeant either.
Else he would be inside Skraat's stomach. Because Skraat is not your average kroot.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not in the ones where the participants involved are interested in actually reaching a conclusion rather than merely validating their head-canon, no.

Are there such debate around here?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I believe you know who I mean. Black people.

No, I thought you meant dark-skinned people, which usually includes Mexicans, Arabs, Persian, Desi, …
If you mean black people, just say black people.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
They are factually faster than white people.

There is a stereotype that says black people run faster than white people. If there is any stereotype saying black people have faster reflexes, or are faster in general, I am not aware of it. If there is any truth behind that stereotype, I am not aware of it either.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.

I would like to be sarcastic about the fact you seem surprise a girl could beat you, but I decided to stop being sarcastic. Yeah, some girls are going to be better than you at sport. It should not even be a surprise.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war

I disagree, I think dark eldar have more fighting skills. They just have a frailer metabolism. For me, they kind of are the “intellectuals” of fighting: it is all in their brain and agility, not in their strength.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Yes, you refuse to see fluff that goes against your vision. That was the right word. Other, like me, accept it, and refuse the most “Space marines are ultra-super strong fluff”.
Just stop considering that you hold the ultimate truth.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.

I refuse what is written in wherever you read that. I refuse to believe a marine can survive having his face seared by plasma and appear completely fine and battle ready. Ridiculous.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.

Crush the spinal chord and every nerve in it? He has no other.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby.

If you cannot accept that other, including people that write official stuff, have an opinion of the fluff that is very different from ours, your should just leave the hobby, or learn to deal with it. Else, you are going to be angry every time.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I want some ACTUAL fluff depicting videos

That video is fluff. Just not the fluff you like, but fluff nonetheless. It certainly is not crunch.
There is ton of fluff I do not like either. But I do not pretend it is not fluff.

There is one reason why Inquisitors are superior to Space Marines on the tabletop, and that is because every single Inquisitor in the game is a special character, even the generic ones. That's it.

Most Inquisitors don't take to combat, and many who do simply surround themselves with capable fighters than do it themselves. Others will use powerful guns. It is rare than an Inquisitor gears themselves for melee, because why would they? Most of this is not actually on-topic, because the OP was trying to explain why they're better on-table, but anyway, it's unlikely that the Inquisitor would be a superior melee combatant. Give them a chance at range, however, and any combat-dedicated Inquisitor would likely have the tools to kill with impunity.

Another fun fact about Inquisitors is that they don't tend to wear helmets, just like special Space Marines (even if they do, I doubt their armour is impervious to neck torsion or being removed once they've been grabbed). To that end, an unarmed Space Marine is most certainly a match for an Inquisitor with a power weapon (I say power weapon because no special attribute does anything other than change the effect of the hit - unless it's a Daemon Weapon, in which case the Space Marine probably loses). It'd be a bit like trying to fight a gorilla with a sword, except the gorilla has military training, superior reaction time, and possibly a chainsaw.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Space Marines were created by The God-Emperor of Mankind, a man who ultimately proved himself to be a colossal idiot, to subjugate and conquer the lost worlds of Man. The Eldar were created by an ancient and incredibly advanced alien race (the Old Ones) to fight another ancient alien race turned into extremely proficient killers (the Necrons). The Eldar were created for war in exactly the same way the Orks were.

Eldar combat is all about speed and form. They are agile and highly skilled. This doesn't mean that every Eldar is better than every Astartes in close combat, it just means they have different strengths and combat styles. Astartes aren't better in every conceivable way than everyone else. That's just silly.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Sergeant Johnson was not facing your average Deldar, either.

And Sergeant Johnson is not your average space marine sergeant either.
Else he would be inside Skraat's stomach. Because Skraat is not your average kroot.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not in the ones where the participants involved are interested in actually reaching a conclusion rather than merely validating their head-canon, no.

Are there such debate around here?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I believe you know who I mean. Black people.

No, I thought you meant dark-skinned people, which usually includes Mexicans, Arabs, Persian, Desi, …
If you mean black people, just say black people.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
They are factually faster than white people.

There is a stereotype that says black people run faster than white people. If there is any stereotype saying black people have faster reflexes, or are faster in general, I am not aware of it. If there is any truth behind that stereotype, I am not aware of it either.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I'm a sporty guy. I remember playing B-ball with a black girl and she kicked my ass, alongside her other friends (most who were dudes though). Then I played football agaisnt several black guys and there, I kicked ass.

I would like to be sarcastic about the fact you seem surprise a girl could beat you, but I decided to stop being sarcastic. Yeah, some girls are going to be better than you at sport. It should not even be a surprise.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Space Marines are slower than DE, but they are much better at war

I disagree, I think dark eldar have more fighting skills. They just have a frailer metabolism. For me, they kind of are the “intellectuals” of fighting: it is all in their brain and agility, not in their strength.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Noo, I saw a marine swinging his chainsword in lazy and uncontrolled strokes, missing like a pro. Then gets killed. It wasn't accurate in any way. I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Yes, you refuse to see fluff that goes against your vision. That was the right word. Other, like me, accept it, and refuse the most “Space marines are ultra-super strong fluff”.
Just stop considering that you hold the ultimate truth.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I have read about marines taking 8 shurikens to the stomach, having their faces seared by plasma, ect and they appear completely fine and battle ready but then theres that moron who dies of a simple sword through the gut. Ridiculous.

I refuse what is written in wherever you read that. I refuse to believe a marine can survive having his face seared by plasma and appear completely fine and battle ready. Ridiculous.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Hell, a sword through his chest should not even slow him down. Pierces a lung? He has another. Pierces the heart? He has another.

Crush the spinal chord and every nerve in it? He has no other.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
If the fluff can't be accepted as it is told and and displayed then you should probably just leave the hobby.

If you cannot accept that other, including people that write official stuff, have an opinion of the fluff that is very different from ours, your should just leave the hobby, or learn to deal with it. Else, you are going to be angry every time.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I want some ACTUAL fluff depicting videos

That video is fluff. Just not the fluff you like, but fluff nonetheless. It certainly is not crunch.
There is ton of fluff I do not like either. But I do not pretend it is not fluff.

You're post is extremely rude and offensive. Next time, be mature and tone down the slighted insults.

With that being said, I believe SM's, especially the ones in that video, should be a little tougher and just a bit more skilled than how they were displayed. I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.

Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
There is one reason why Inquisitors are superior to Space Marines on the tabletop, and that is because every single Inquisitor in the game is a special character, even the generic ones. That's it.

Most Inquisitors don't take to combat, and many who do simply surround themselves with capable fighters than do it themselves. Others will use powerful guns. It is rare than an Inquisitor gears themselves for melee, because why would they? Most of this is not actually on-topic, because the OP was trying to explain why they're better on-table, but anyway, it's unlikely that the Inquisitor would be a superior melee combatant. Give them a chance at range, however, and any combat-dedicated Inquisitor would likely have the tools to kill with impunity.

Another fun fact about Inquisitors is that they don't tend to wear helmets, just like special Space Marines (even if they do, I doubt their armour is impervious to neck torsion or being removed once they've been grabbed). To that end, an unarmed Space Marine is most certainly a match for an Inquisitor with a power weapon (I say power weapon because no special attribute does anything other than change the effect of the hit - unless it's a Daemon Weapon, in which case the Space Marine probably loses). It'd be a bit like trying to fight a gorilla with a sword, except the gorilla has military training, superior reaction time, and possibly a chainsaw.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I refuse to believe Eldar are more slilled than a SM who was created for war.

Space Marines were created by The God-Emperor of Mankind, a man who ultimately proved himself to be a colossal idiot, to subjugate and conquer the lost worlds of Man. The Eldar were created by an ancient and incredibly advanced alien race (the Old Ones) to fight another ancient alien race turned into extremely proficient killers (the Necrons). The Eldar were created for war in exactly the same way the Orks were.

Eldar combat is all about speed and form. They are agile and highly skilled. This doesn't mean that every Eldar is better than every Astartes in close combat, it just means they have different strengths and combat styles. Astartes aren't better in every conceivable way than everyone else. That's just silly.

I never said astartes were better than everyone else in every conceivable way.

Like, a SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau. A SM would probably enjoy the use of a heavy bolter agaisnt orks or nids, why? Because he doesn't really wanna get in their face.

Eldar however, have the distinct advantage of being fairly decent in shooting, melee, hell even their psykers are arguably the best.

That's why marines can't rely on brute strength with Eldar, they have to beat them at strategy.

And to avoid pissing of Eldar players I will end it here.

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

I won't complain if Aspect Warriors can match Marines in combat. That is entirely fine.

I do complain when Marines (And Eldar too, for that matter) are portrayed as incompetent, and inconsistent. Like in the trailer.

A fight between a Marine and an Aspect Warrior should not be 'who oneshots first'. It is a contest that takes time.

SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau

why not? Tau don't have great depth perception and can only match Guard etc due to high tech trickery - Astartes have high tech trickery, excellent co-ordination and superior senses. Aspect Warriors are about the same in this respect......

No parts of the current Tau and Eldar codex are in the game flat out broken.................

A Space Marine is normally fine against a single Ork Boy or Tyranid - but that's not how those races fight....

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.

I agree that numbers in 40k do not make sense. But I also think Eldar are supposed to be pretty rare too, and aspect warriors are a tiny proportion of their population.
I have no idea what you consider rude or offensive in my post. Apart from the multiquote, which is annoying, and which I should have removed, but I posted in a rush.
Well, except if it is about the fact some girls can beat you at sport. If you consider that an insult, then I consider the fact you take that as an insult as offensive. Lots of girls are going to beat me at sport too, if that makes you feel better.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I believe in a grimdark setting with only 1,000,000 SM's existing at any one time, they should be a bit more skilled. C'mon, only 1 million and here, they die like nothing to a relatively small group of Eldar? It's pathetic.

I agree that numbers in 40k do not make sense. But I also think Eldar are supposed to be pretty rare too, and aspect warriors are a tiny proportion of their population.
I have no idea what you consider rude or offensive in my post. Apart from the multiquote, which is annoying, and which I should have removed, but I posted in a rush.
Well, except if it is about the fact some girls can beat you at sport. If you consider that an insult, then I consider the fact you take that as an insult as offensive. Lots of girls are going to beat me at sport too, if that makes you feel better.

You don't know me so don't assume. I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life. If lots of girls beat you at sport then you are not as fervent about it as I am. But this isn't the subject in which the thread was created.

I'll be honest, I absolutely despise the numbers GW has put on every. Single. Race.
Regardless, I take those numbers and put them into logical sense. If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about. Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

SM probably doesn't wanna have a shooting contest with the Tau

why not? Tau don't have great depth perception and can only match Guard etc due to high tech trickery - Astartes have high tech trickery, excellent co-ordination and superior senses. Aspect Warriors are about the same in this respect......

No parts of the current Tau and Eldar codex are in the game flat out broken.................

A Space Marine is normally fine against a single Ork Boy or Tyranid - but that's not how those races fight....

I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.

And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.

Ok, now you go read the Ciapias Cain book (Traitors Gambit?) that shows 4 Chaos Space Marines deepstriking, then charging into a horde of cultists. Of course the Space Marines take there due, but they they also die off one by one, by cultists. Or how Cain (not a living Saint, i don't see no angel wings!) managed to hold his own vs a Khorn Beserker. And you cannot say Khorn Beserkers are worse combatants then other Marines, because they channel there rage into combat. To say otherwise would be to say that Angron was a bad fighter because he was always angry and rage fueled.

Also read Path of the Incubus were Wyches and Incubi cut there way through Plague Marines, or my previously quoted part were the Wyches and Lelith were *shredding* the Space Marines in Commaragh. So we have met an empasse, either disregard ALL Black Library fluff because it is to inconsistent, or we accept all of it and you take the good with the bad.

And saying that a Marine shouldn't lose to a Banshee once she has met Melee range is silly, Banshees are TAILOR MADE to kill Marines. In there fluff it specifically states that the power swords can cut through power armour easily, and the Banshee wail would be devastating to Marines, due to there enhanced senses it is very likely that by itself would cripple a Marine.

And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.

I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.

And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.

As was I

Nope Tau are not good at shooting - they have good guns and tech to help them be as good as Guard but fire a lascannon at you and you are normally just a wisp of smoke............. Crisis Veterans are their equivalent of Marines.