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SeanDrake wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
I'm not seeing where Descent is less than the cost of this (though I'm not a board game shopper and don't know the best places). I just checked Amazon, Descent is £64, this is £56.

Edit: I haven't been keeping abreast of currency rates, is the pound just really strong right now?
.

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Journeys-Dark-Second-Edition/dp/1616611898/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407168049&sr=8-1&keywords=Descent

Nice about £35 in real money but over here its £60ish for a 5yr old game. It's basically pointless attempting to compare them due to the fact that where you are in the world in relation to where they are produced currently has a fairly big effect on the price.

Indeed. I see the same differences between Wayland and Miniature Market:

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=16814

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ffgdj01.html

 tgmoore wrote:
So what is the bussiness advantage out of a single pledge level?

As you say I think ease of picking and dispatching the pledges is a big factor in this. KOW and Deadzone saw some very big mess ups in terms of delivery from Mantic, this lead to multiple packages/ repicks and thus hit Mantic's bottom line.

But also previous KS have seen single backers sitting on multiple pledges and then ejecting them towards the end, this backward slide in the pledge total then sees others get worried and dump their pledges altogether, the single pledge level largely negates this. I think combined with the large lead time that Mantic have thought about this KS a lot more, and hopefully it will be more successful as a result of that.

New Stretch Goal, I'm going to be a jerk and hint at it.

"Do You Wanna Date My Avatar?"

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
But also previous KS have seen single backers sitting on multiple pledges and then ejecting them towards the end

That's a problem of having unnecessary early bird pledge levels, not a problem of having multiple pledge levels.

Mantic has more than enough enthusiastic fans that they'll get a big jump start regardless, there's no need to throw away money or irritate hardcore fans on the arbitrary basis of where they live or what they do for a living.

In the spirit of positiveness though, I don't have an issue with "fake" stretch goals (well, I doubt the stretch goals are fake, it's the starting total that's in all likelihood fake).

Riquende said: Right, so in the US then. Descent is (quickly uses Google) $107 on Amazon.co.uk. Ouch.

But that likely reflects a temporary OOP as many FFG games cycle through---and some gouging from Amazon sellers that know this.
Their popular lines keep getting released again but temporarily go out of availability.
Descent 2nd edition core game is $80 USD full retail from the mfr's site.

@ Baragash That is true, but for most pledge levels backers expect an early bird for each level. By going with (currently?) the single pledge level they are negating that. There would be people who would not back on the principle of not being able to save $10 on a particular pledge level (or at least having the initial chance to save money).

I was excited by this project, but it is just another game and more spending that I do not need. The one year (probably less as they may try to get it out early) lead time makes it easier not to pledge too. That said I hope that this project does well and that backers end up with a fantastic deal.

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooley did you still pledge?

Absolutely not.

 cincydooley wrote:

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooley did you still pledge?

Absolutely not.

Thats ok I will buy two to make up for it. :-)

My copies of Descent are going up this week on ebay to fund this.

Debating whether to bundle all the 1st and 2nd edition stuff together or not, or sell them in 2 separate lots. Shipping will be a bitch one way or the other.

I guess this isn't too bad of deal. I actually would have liked to have seen all these done as board game plastics though, just to match the rest of the game pieces.



And it looks like we'll be hitting the next stretch pretty soon anyways.

New blog up too: http://manticblog.com/2014/08/04/dungeon-saga-is-here/

This seems pertinent:

"To keep pledge levels easy to understand (another request that we heard from backers) and as gentle on the wallet as possible we have just one pledge level – $100. We want this KS to get as many backers as possible, and hope that at the total rises you will get a huge pile of goodies for your $100. We will need to get as far as expansions before there we outgrow the base pledge (although there will be a few tempting extras to add on along the way!)."

As per the most recent pledge level it does seem like rules will be for KOW Undead rather than the entire KOW range.

"As the funding goals are met, we want to expand beyond the core game and into an almost tabletop RPG, with the rules for generating your own heroes, a complete system for character development, traps, gold, and instructions for building your own dungeons and adventures and complete rules for the entire Mantic Undead range. Once you have played through and become a veteran player this will allow you to develop the game in whatever way you want to, picking and choosing what’s right for your gaming group."

privateer4hire wrote:
Riquende said: Right, so in the US then. Descent is (quickly uses Google) $107 on Amazon.co.uk. Ouch.

But that likely reflects a temporary OOP as many FFG games cycle through---and some gouging from Amazon sellers that know this.
Their popular lines keep getting released again but temporarily go out of availability.
Descent 2nd edition core game is $80 USD full retail from the mfr's site.

Sadly not - boardgames are just a lot more expensive in the UK in general! Particularly big, heavy ones produced in the US. Retailers tend to sell them much closer to the RRP as well, which has actually meant that even the base RRP of many boardgame Kickstarters ends up saving UK backers money over retail, even taking shipping into account.

So we're actually talking about $100 vs $80 in terms of RRPs, then. Kickstarters will typically sell the game at or slightly higher than the RRP, but have plenty of extras/exclusives to fill the gap.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
My copies of Descent are going up this week on ebay to fund this.

Wow. That's bananas to me.

The minis in deadzone, the only Mantic I've backed, were incredibly disappointing to me.

This one will have to do a lot to get my $$

 Alpharius wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest

And what it contains right now is...unimpressive.

Clearly it will grow, but it has to be chock full of 'fake stretch goals' at this point.

Both a hater of fake stretch goals (really, what is wrong with a more honest goal?) and exclusive mini's. Make them available with Mantic points or something as no interest in getting others into a game that they can't get everything for, or make sure there is a regular version available.

My copies of Descent take up too much space, and have not hit the table often enough to justify the storage space my wife is attempting to claim. We're talking 8 or 9 boxes here, plus the big coffin, and a plastic storage bin that has the bulk of the minis in them currently.

This looks a lot simpler to play with the kids, and considering I've actually gotten the wife to play DKH, she is a bit more willing to play a simpler game that can be built upon.

Plus the rest of what all those should bring in is going to help fund the next Darklands campaign. I never said Mantic gets all my monies!


Also-

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest

And what it contains right now is...unimpressive.

Clearly it will grow, but it has to be chock full of 'fake stretch goals' at this point.

Both a hater of fake stretch goals (really, what is wrong with a more honest goal?) and exclusive mini's. Make them available with Mantic points or something as no interest in getting others into a game that they can't get everything for, or make sure there is a regular version available.

I think all of the previous Kickstarter exclusives were made available with Mantic points. One probable exception was that 'Gabe' model, but that was likely down to the agreements in place.

In fact, from "What does Kickstarter Exclusive mean?" in the FAQ:

Here at Mantic we don't want to release figures through Kickstarter that will then penalise customers who miss out on the campaign. However, we do want to keep our Kickstarter exclusives a little bit special. Therefore, although our exclusive releases will never be sold at retail, they will be available later via the Mantic Points Scheme on our website, or offered as promotional figures at conventions that we attend.

And as Baragash pointed out, really the 'fake' here is the funding target, I think if they asked up front for $200k, and included a lot more in the base game, people (on here) would be happier with it, but maybe Mantic think such a high target will see the pledges roll in more slowly? As ever, there's plenty of discussion to be had on the nature of Kickstarter itself and how various companies seek to game the system...

And we have a felica day model. fans of the guild rejoice!

Re: Mantic be more upfront....

I found this on the Mars Attacks KS comments section:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/mars-attacks-the-miniatures-game/posts/651418

Creator Mantic Games on November 4, 2013

@ Jeremy and Spartan - we'd love to show you more, but we need to hit the stretches we have first before we can do. It's not about being coy, or even teases, If we show everything now, then what do you have to get excited about later? We've got three goals out at the moment, and already people want to know what's after the Bug, which we said is next.
If we don't hit the things we show, it only causes disappointment in our experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord marcus wrote:
And we have a felica day model. fans of the guild rejoice!

I don't want to play Mr. Internet Lawyer but is this an infringement of an IP? I am guessing no.

I've wondered how Zombicide has gotten away with it making miniatures of far more recognizable and famous TV and movie characters.

 tgmoore wrote:
Re: Mantic be more upfront....

I found this on the Mars Attacks KS comments section:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/mars-attacks-the-miniatures-game/posts/651418

Creator Mantic Games on November 4, 2013

@ Jeremy and Spartan - we'd love to show you more, but we need to hit the stretches we have first before we can do. It's not about being coy, or even teases, If we show everything now, then what do you have to get excited about later? We've got three goals out at the moment, and already people want to know what's after the Bug, which we said is next.
If we don't hit the things we show, it only causes disappointment in our experience.

That's one of the more lame things I've ever read.

!

I don't want to play Mr. Internet Lawyer but is this an infringement of an IP? I am guessing no.

I've wondered how Zombicide has gotten away with it making miniatures of far more recognizable and famous TV and movie characters.

No. Because parody is protected in the United States by fair use laws.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:


I guess this isn't too bad of deal. I actually would have liked to have seen all these done as board game plastics though, just to match the rest of the game pieces.

Can someone translate what they mean by 'premium plastic'? And if we had to accept sub-standard models to appease the boardgamers, how are the board gamers not going to lose their minds like the Metal MYTH figure when they get KoW multipart 'premium plastic' models without integrated bases which have to be assembled?

Bioptic wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:
Riquende said: Right, so in the US then. Descent is (quickly uses Google) $107 on Amazon.co.uk. Ouch.

But that likely reflects a temporary OOP as many FFG games cycle through---and some gouging from Amazon sellers that know this.
Their popular lines keep getting released again but temporarily go out of availability.
Descent 2nd edition core game is $80 USD full retail from the mfr's site.

Sadly not - boardgames are just a lot more expensive in the UK in general! Particularly big, heavy ones produced in the US. Retailers tend to sell them much closer to the RRP as well, which has actually meant that even the base RRP of many boardgame Kickstarters ends up saving UK backers money over retail, even taking shipping into account.

So we're actually talking about $100 vs $80 in terms of RRPs, then. Kickstarters will typically sell the game at or slightly higher than the RRP, but have plenty of extras/exclusives to fill the gap.

My bad. I didn't notice it was amazon.UK that you had quoted. FFG stuff that's out of stock temporarily has a crazy way of climbing on sites like Amazon.
When Wave 1 X-Wing stuff had temporarily sold out, people were asking for double MSRP and getting it on lots of sites.

I assume the Mantic "premium plastic" on these is restic? Or did they do these models in HIPS?

"...I've wondered how Zombicide has gotten away with it making miniatures of far more recognizable and famous TV and movie characters."

IANAL but probably lots of factors. Zombicide is successful in our world but probably isn't even a blip on folks owning the rights to those characters you mentioned.
The parody shield is great until a deep pockets company decides to call your bluff. Even if they lose you've been dragged into civil court.
Companies like Mantic and garage/barely emerged from a garage recently businesses likely would pull the minis if they got serious legal correspondence.

 cincydooley wrote:
I assume the Mantic "premium plastic" on these is restic? Or did they do these models in HIPS?

I assume 'hard plastic' for the ghouls is HIPS... so I assume since this isn't 'boardgame' plastic it has to be restic cleverly disguised in yet a new term to confuse people.

Anything to mislead people for more money I suppose. Board gamers don't mess around when they get duped by material issues.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
My copies of Descent take up too much space, and have not hit the table often enough to justify the storage space my wife is attempting to claim. We're talking 8 or 9 boxes here, plus the big coffin, and a plastic storage bin that has the bulk of the minis in them currently.

No Descent 2E for you?

Yes, the KOW models aside from the Ghouls are PVC.

The Ghouls are Polystyrene.

All of them have been out for a few years now.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Yes, the KOW models aside from the Ghouls are PVC.

The Ghouls are Polystyrene.

All of them have been out for a few years now.

I'll note that the wraiths that I got from KoW (restic) were extremely soft-featured, the werewolfs are fine (if you like the sculpts) and the mummies are ok (but nearly as soft-featured as the wraiths. For a board game, they'll be fine but I'd almost say that the minis in Deadzone v2 are better quality than Mantic's currect restic/soft plastic/whatever name you want to throw on it.

Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

Not the ones they're touting as being made in "premium plastic."

Im not much of a fan of those werewolves anyway so I'm not sure I'd even buy that add on.

 cincydooley wrote:

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

Not the ones they're touting as being made in "premium plastic."

Im not much of a fan of those werewolves anyway so I'm not sure I'd even buy that add on.

lol I thought you weren't backing?

 tgmoore wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

Not the ones they're touting as being made in "premium plastic."

Im not much of a fan of those werewolves anyway so I'm not sure I'd even buy that add on.

lol I thought you weren't backing?

Some people just like to hang around big KS threads ragging on things.

Also, just to appease another one, board gamers are being specifically warned that those are wargaming minis that require hobby skills to assemble in text underneath the picture, so there's plenty of warning for them - and it's an optional extra for more money anyway.