Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heath Foley did quite a bit of art for this game, and the pieces I've seen look really, really great. Heath was also responsible for much of the Rebs art (if not all) in Deadzone.

If they can manage to clean up their abysmal casting and can translate Heath's art into miniature, there could be some really great models in this game. Unfortunately, that translation hasn't always been seamless for Mantic.

PapaSoul wrote:
Does Mantic really need to use Kickstarter? I thought it was intended for up and coming projects that couldn't be funded in any other way besides crowdsourcing. I refuse to believe that this is the only way mantic could bring this product to light, in fact it's not so much a kickstarter as it is a way of guaranteeing pre-orders for your new product. Poor show Mantic.

Couldn't disagree with you more.

Our hobby is quite small. Even if Mantic is becoming one of the "bigger players," it's still very small.

I think using Kickstarter as a risk mitigation tool for your product is completely appropriate. So much so that I think GW should use it to produce their Specialist games and other "pet projects."

Interesting that they are board game plastic and not miniatures typical plastic.

I'm curious to see what their tiles look like. Their card from their previous games is garbage, so here's hoping the stuff here Is made of some thicker stuff.

 Alex C wrote:
"There's not enough minis in this game!"

*Mantic adds minis*

"Pffft, fake stretch goals! Utter BS!"

/eyeroll

Um, no. Not when the retail is significantly higher than a number of products that include quite a bit more "game".

It's incredibly disingenuous to mark things as stretch goals that were intended to be in the game in the first place.

 Alex C wrote:
I just find it odd that people still complain about fake stretch goals when it's a staple of pretty much every big KS project nowerdays.

Whatever, it is what it is, I'll leave y'all to whine about it.

Like what? Show them to me. Because that's not true at all.

Myths first stretch goal was expansion material. It's second was stuff not included in the box.

None of the Zombicide ones partake in them.

Super Dungeon explore didn't.

I can go on.

 Alex C wrote:
Yes, because Mantic will add absolutely nothing of value to this in the next month...

Jeez...

Why should anyone pledge on what appears to be a vastly overpriced package right now though?

 Alex C wrote:
Ok I'm wrong.

But you don't think Zombicide had fake SG? Tens of thousands of dollars to get the Zombivor for a character when other characters got the Zombivor with it? Tens of thousands of dollars to get the second half of a card deck?

Mantic has certainly done it before, it shouldn't surprise anyone.

Anyway I'm bailing on this thread. It's depressing.

Those aren't fake at all, because none of them were ever intended to be included in the boxed game.

Additionally, for every new survivor + zombivor, you're looking at close to $20k in costs to produce it.

Also, anyone find it odd the game has gridded tiles but comes with a range ruler?

SeanDrake wrote:
I don't know I think the price is not to bad considering the dollar is heading towards monopoly money territory. They must be risking eating the costs if the dollar drops further.

Honestly, you'd be wrong.

You have to compare it to other similar products. Descent is a good barometer here, as others have said.

50 minis. More cards. Proven high quality production. $20 less AT RETAIL. $40 less at "standard online discount".

IMO it's dishonest.

But that's just one guys 2 cents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was a big problem on the zombie bunny one that soda pop was doing because they had a render of the box contents that included more than the "initial" offering.

Like I said, it's a bit dishonest and if we are going to be paying retail for your game directly from you through Kickstarter, there needs to be extra.

As it stands I could wait and get all these stretch goals. In box. At a discount later.

 Black Nexus wrote:
.

If this stuff didn't get added, you'd still get a complete game. The Kickstarter is to fund the tooling. More funding there is, the more tools there are, the more you can make... Having a painted sculpt is different to having a tooled plastic mini.

Either I don't understand what you're trying to say, or you don't actually know what you're talking about.

If it ended right now you wouldn't have a very full game. And it certainly wouldn't be worth $100.

 Riquende wrote:
I'm not seeing where Descent is less than the cost of this (though I'm not a board game shopper and don't know the best places). I just checked Amazon, Descent is £64, this is £56.

Edit: I haven't been keeping abreast of currency rates, is the pound just really strong right now?
.

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Journeys-Dark-Second-Edition/dp/1616611898/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407168049&sr=8-1&keywords=Descent




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tgmoore wrote:

I don't know how to square the need for marketing hype, something which comes off as stale when you already know about it. And 100% transparency being upfront with fans. I can answer almost every question posted on the Kickstarter because I have been following this game geekily for the last 2 months. Which tells me most people are unaware of these faux "stretch goals" and what all is planned for the game. In short I can't blame Mantic for using the most effective marketing tools at their disposal to maximize profit on this KS campaign.

For me? Stuff that wasn't going to be in the box anyway shouldn't be a stretch goal. Simple as that.

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooley did you still pledge?

Absolutely not.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
My copies of Descent are going up this week on ebay to fund this.

Wow. That's bananas to me.

The minis in deadzone, the only Mantic I've backed, were incredibly disappointing to me.

This one will have to do a lot to get my $$

 tgmoore wrote:
Re: Mantic be more upfront....

I found this on the Mars Attacks KS comments section:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/mars-attacks-the-miniatures-game/posts/651418

Creator Mantic Games on November 4, 2013

@ Jeremy and Spartan - we'd love to show you more, but we need to hit the stretches we have first before we can do. It's not about being coy, or even teases, If we show everything now, then what do you have to get excited about later? We've got three goals out at the moment, and already people want to know what's after the Bug, which we said is next.
If we don't hit the things we show, it only causes disappointment in our experience.

That's one of the more lame things I've ever read.

!

I don't want to play Mr. Internet Lawyer but is this an infringement of an IP? I am guessing no.

I've wondered how Zombicide has gotten away with it making miniatures of far more recognizable and famous TV and movie characters.

No. Because parody is protected in the United States by fair use laws.

I assume the Mantic "premium plastic" on these is restic? Or did they do these models in HIPS?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
My copies of Descent take up too much space, and have not hit the table often enough to justify the storage space my wife is attempting to claim. We're talking 8 or 9 boxes here, plus the big coffin, and a plastic storage bin that has the bulk of the minis in them currently.

No Descent 2E for you?

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

Not the ones they're touting as being made in "premium plastic."

Im not much of a fan of those werewolves anyway so I'm not sure I'd even buy that add on.

 tgmoore wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 tgmoore wrote:
Cincydooly,

The figures are the same plastic as Gears of War and Mars attacks. It is not hard plastic and it isn't the super cheap super flexible stuff either.

Not the ones they're touting as being made in "premium plastic."

Im not much of a fan of those werewolves anyway so I'm not sure I'd even buy that add on.

lol I thought you weren't backing?

I'm not yet. Like I indicated in an earlier post, I could be persuaded to if the project gets good enough. I did, however, forget that one cannot comment until they put their money in.

Additionally, I was unaware that mantic was calling their restic "premium plastic". I honestly thought their phrase "resin" was actually their restic and their on sprue models (because they do have them) were their premium plastic.

 judgedoug wrote:
I don't understand all the confusion, it's right on the Kickstarter front page

What material are the miniatures made from?
The miniatures are made in multiple pieces, but provided fully assembled (unless stated otherwise), and made from highly detailed coloured plastic. The material is a type of PVC commonly used in board games such as Fantasy Flight Games’ Gears of War and our very own Loka. This allows us to have a high level of detail whilst keeping the dynamic poses required for such a fast-paced game, and of course making them very affordable as you would expect from Mantic.
Note that this material is not the harder PVC commonly known as “restic”, and is not sprued hard plastic.

Since it's written in broad daylight for anyone to read, I'm going to now assume there will be cries of "bait and switch" with the old adage "Mantic... almost". Can't wait!

It was in regards to the "premium plastic" they used to describe the add in pack. I didn't know what "actual" material was is all.

It's plenty clear what the material is in the box. As such, and because it's that material, the value doesn't seem there for many yet.

 GrimDork wrote:
I usually like to get news from these but I'm fresh out of cheese go go with the whine.

Cool story bro. The cool thing about these forums is that people are allowed to disagree and voice critique.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Oh, and how bout the people who have no interest in the game just keep your yaps shut?

You should invest some time in actually reading the posts then. I mean, I am assuming you have some time to waste to do that.... Most of us offering critique have said we don't see the value...yet. Yet being the operative word.

There have been 8 pages of whining from some of the usual suspects, and the mods are about to get really sick of me hitting the yellow friendship button 400 times in the next ten minutes.

Again, read them. None of it has been whining. There's well articulated critique.

But the fake stretch goal nonsense got stupid-I'm glad it was pointed out how they aren't fake at all, they're done this way with good reasoning that was quoted to bring in a much lower initial goal to entice more people to back.

Well, no. It isn't nonsense, as many of us have already explained. Want to entice people to back right away and not wait? Put together a package worth backing at the beginning. For a lot of us, it isn't there yet. There's very little incentive to back right now.

Makes more sense than some of the FSGs certain posters claim weren't fake at all during the Z-cide Kickstarter. But hey, we got Mantic Fanbois/Water Carriers, GW White Knights...how bout C'MON sycophants? Great...now let's all shut up and enjoy a new, fun dungeon crawler!!

Please, list me the Zombicide stretch goals that were items that were added to the base box, and will be in said base box when it hits retail.

Then, list me the Zombicide stretch goals that were items added outside of the base box as incentives for backers that will not be in said base box when it hits retail.

I'm not a gambler, but I think one list is going to be much longer than the other......

There's a sizable difference between "stretch goals you don't like" and "disingenuous fake stretch goals."

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
How's Mantic resin been, quality wise?

I've never built a resin kit from them.

Didn't even know they had them, honestly. The price is right, though!

 judgedoug wrote:
I have the resin upgrade bits for the Forge Father gun and dreadnought thing, they were just fine. Good resin, good cast. Not gak like Forge World and not heavenly like Mierce. Just okay.

gak like FW, eh?

That's an interesting comment.

So have they only done resin bits thusfar?

decker_cky wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Mantic for sure is too eager to have the 'funded in 4 minutes' ribbon on their mantle, something that's not really useful. I think a $100k or $150k project that starts with a lot more minis looks a lot better, and isn't going to risk hitting a lull from an established kickstarter company like Mantic.

Agreed.

Zombicide S3 had a funding goal of $100k. And it started out with tons of things.

Still a big fan of the barbarian.