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Was going to ask if the poms were asleep, and yeah, 3 AM I guess the next stretch goals will appear in a few hours ; p This last one was done $6K ago.


And for good measure:

Thanks for that excellent, on-topic post, Yonan!

Just quoting this over to the new page to make sure everyone is aware of it, since it got caught by the page rollover. No more OT posts in here, please:

 RiTides wrote:
It looks like I wasn't clear enough... the next person to make a post only attacking other posters (whether they are in favor, or opposed, to the campaign) will be getting a short vacation from Dakka.

Dakka's rule #2 is Stay On Topic. The topic here is the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter- not your opinion of other posters in this thread.

This is not a drill... Thanks

Like the ghosts, don't like the pay add-on.

How's Mantic resin been, quality wise?

I've never built a resin kit from them.



I like the upgrade designs, and the concept of upgraded character models even more, but I still would prefer seeing everything made out of the same material, with the option to have the resin versions as add ons remain.

I'm looking at this as an entry level dungeon crawler for playing with the kids. I'm not too fond of the idea of them smashing resins pieces all over the board when the dice decide to betray them.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
How's Mantic resin been, quality wise?

I've never built a resin kit from them.

Didn't even know they had them, honestly. The price is right, though!

Well I'd say that resin isn't for 'kids' if they're young - and from the sound of it, you might want to really keep your kids away from them too!

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Yes, because Mantic will add absolutely nothing of value to this in the next month...
Jeez...

Why should anyone pledge on what appears to be a vastly overpriced package right now though?

At this point, most pledges I'd say are speculative ones based on what we expect will be included in about 3 weeks' time for a hundred buck plus postage. Mine certainly is.

KS in this form is a game, and while I expect that the final outcome will be pretty good in the end, there's no reason we can't have a bit of fun in the meantime poking at the fake stretch goals and silly parts of "the game" that Mantic's playing with us here.


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nkelsch wrote:

Not to mention 'water carriers' have already been quick to proclaim 'Premium plastic' meant loka/board game plastic opposed to restic when these will not be recasted improved restic but leftover stock from KoW which will be wave 1, intro restic.

Slight correction - the "Wave 1 intro Restic" is actually much better than the Kings of War KS stuff. The undead cavalry and wraiths predate the KoW KS, and while the wraiths are solidly decent, the Undead Cavalry are actually really good. I'd actually say that the DreadBall restic (Wave 3) is overall worse quality than the KoW Restic (Wave 2) as well. I don't have my DZ stuff yet, but most of that will be shoved aside in favour of GW plastic and metal anyway....


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 Yonan wrote:
The solo play deck wasn't mentioned 'til over halfway through the Deadzone campaign, so here's hoping they decide to do one here too.

They've talked about co-op being added in. Jake apparently likes a kind of "competitive co-op". Which sounds like a bit of a spank, but whatever as long as there's some form of co-op in there. It'll be a fake stretch goal at some stage since it sounded like those rules are already somewhat written.


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Resin characters? A bit of a gamble to buy these from Mantic, I have to say. While the price is reasonable, their sculpting is generally quite uneven and may or may not match concept art. While the rest of the stuff shown for this KS looks quite nice, I'd still want to see sculpts or even resin masters before being willing to drop an additional $25 on them.

Anyone remember when "boardgame plastic" Mars Attacks single figures were $8 each? And now the add-on DKQ resin figures are $8 each?

I approve. I might even buy one if they do a resin lizardman hero.

I have the resin upgrade bits for the Forge Father gun and dreadnought thing, they were just fine. Good resin, good cast. Not gak like Forge World and not heavenly like Mierce. Just okay.

I still think it's a gamble doing resin instead of boardgame plastic versions of the upgrades.

Cheap plastic ones might get more buy in too, but I'm guessing they're resin since they're exclusives.

Of course with resin, they can cast a finite amount and not have to worry about leftovers when they get those final numbers.

Maybe I'm just coming at this as a true boardgame rather than a miniatures game played on a board. Who knows how everything will shake out in the end anyways.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have the resin upgrade bits for the Forge Father gun and dreadnought thing, they were just fine. Good resin, good cast. Not gak like Forge World and not heavenly like Mierce. Just okay.

gak like FW, eh?

That's an interesting comment.

So have they only done resin bits thusfar?

 Azazelx wrote:
I know that by the end it will have good value. It's just that, you know, I'd rather they were a bit more honest. about it. If it's going to cost $150k or $200k to produce, I wish they'd set that as the target and have real stretch goals from that point onward....

I can agree with that. I also see how some of the additions are things they'd consider releasing the product without.

Mantic for sure is too eager to have the 'funded in 4 minutes' ribbon on their mantle, something that's not really useful. I think a $100k or $150k project that starts with a lot more minis looks a lot better, and isn't going to risk hitting a lull from an established kickstarter company like Mantic.

Still...in the end it doesn't really matter, so I don't care too much.

 cincydooley wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I have the resin upgrade bits for the Forge Father gun and dreadnought thing, they were just fine. Good resin, good cast. Not gak like Forge World and not heavenly like Mierce. Just okay.

gak like FW, eh?

That's an interesting comment.

So have they only done resin bits thusfar?

Unless I'm somehow been super unlucky, well, everything I've gotten from FW has been miscast and/or laden with terrible mold lines. Which is especially sad as all my Eldar stuff is supposed to be smooth and wraithbone and not supposed to look like 18-minute cast iron T-34 turrets.

I'm not really interested in the number of minis I get in a KS but mostly the quality and the diversity of the sculpts. I don't really understand what's the point of getting 2-3 different heroes like Orlaf (the barbarian) which I very much like, one in plastic, 2 in resin. I mean, once the model has been sculpted it doesn't really cost much to Mantic to start flushing it out in numbers. Also, 20K for 1 plastic dwarf king that should've been in the starter box to start with? NO. Ghosts look OK. But 3 identical prepainted? And for a 25K stretch goal for what will be "premium" plastic? NO. If they had bothered with 3 different sculpts and thus painting them 3 times (and not once), I might be more interested although it still wouldn't justify the 25K "needed". Anyway, with 1800 backers I think I'll wait a lot before and if I jump on this.

I was sure that this was going to fund but I'm also sure Mantic is stretching the cord a bit too much with their followers...

decker_cky wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Mantic for sure is too eager to have the 'funded in 4 minutes' ribbon on their mantle, something that's not really useful. I think a $100k or $150k project that starts with a lot more minis looks a lot better, and isn't going to risk hitting a lull from an established kickstarter company like Mantic.

Agreed.

Zombicide S3 had a funding goal of $100k. And it started out with tons of things.

Still a big fan of the barbarian.

 cincydooley wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I have the resin upgrade bits for the Forge Father gun and dreadnought thing, they were just fine. Good resin, good cast. Not gak like Forge World and not heavenly like Mierce. Just okay.

So have they only done resin bits thusfar?

They have done a few resin figures as KS bonuses for big spenders, iirc a "black resin" ogre if you spent over 'x' amount on the KOW Kickstarter and it was either a big plague gribbly or Rebel commander for Deadzone.

Rather than being exclusive sculpts they were just resin versions of the retail figures. I remember seeing a version of the ogre, a lot of flash but it looked nice. Have seen nothing of the others. Scarletsquig can provide more concrete details on these though.

As for the game, I like the look of the ghosts. Are we to assume that greater variety of sculpts of the Undead is a future stretch goal?

Does the $1 pledge still give us access to the pledge manager later?

This:

"We’ve seen some chatter about a low-value pledge level – perhaps $1 – that just gives people access to the add-ons without having to get the game. Is this something you’d like to have?"

from the latest update suggests not, but it looks like they are open to it happening. I would happily pledge for the exclusive resin figures on their own merit.

As positive as I am about this kickstarter I struggle with the value right now. However I'm still in because that gets us closer to future stretch goals and the higher value I'm after.

So, if the project ceases to interest me I will pull my pledge. What's the logic (not having a pop - genuinely curious) of not pledging now and pulling out later? Its monopoly money until the end of the KS after all.

OT - I'd prefer legendary minis in game plastic, they need to address the material issues raised, I want more minis and dungeon architecture, tiles and expansions are things that will really get the KS going.

Sirio wrote:
. Also, 20K for 1 plastic dwarf king that should've been in the starter box to start with? NO.

Why should the undead dwarf king have been in the starter box? The 'Dwarf King' in the game's title is a different Dwarf King, the one who sent the adventurers on the quest.

Ghosts look OK. But 3 identical prepainted? And for a 25K stretch goal for what will be "premium" plastic? NO.

The ghosts are neither prepainted, nor premium plastic. They are probably identical, which I don't particularly like.



You know, it's fine to not like this, but making up stuff to complain about isn't cool, kids.

Sirio wrote:
Also, 20K for 1 plastic dwarf king that should've been in the starter box to start with? NO. Ghosts look OK. But 3 identical prepainted? And for a 25K stretch goal for what will be "premium" plastic? NO. If they had bothered with 3 different sculpts and thus painting them 3 times (and not once).

Couple of corrections for you there. The Dwarf King stretch goal is one evil character, a new board tile and additional rules/missions; not just one model. Also, the ghosts are not prepainted. Nothing is prepainted in the campaign.

I do agree that multiple poses would be nice and I'm fairly sure they have mentioned this in one of the teasers somewhere... so hopefully we'll get additional sculpts as later stretch goals

Hmm.. this started with 22 minis at $100... I know the KS is adding minis for free, but how much of those will end up in the box set anyway?

Mars Attacks was a lot more clear, if it was the game box being upgraded, it was stated. Not sure if all of the current freebies are going to be included in the box or not anyway (with the exception of the resin exclusive).

Not so keen on KS exclusives as paid add-ons either, I think this will be the first Mantic KS where I ditch the "gotta catch 'em all" mentality for the exclusives, $8 per exclusive is too much.

 Compel wrote:
Interestingly, the kickstarter video also talks about the 'Absolute Depravity' pledge level, which I'm assuming is the 'all the things level' - which doesn't exist yet....

We already have the Absolute Depravity level. The graphic for the Dungeon Master pledge says that this is a "Sweet spot pledge of Absolute Depravity"

At least with all the current stretches included we're over 30 figures in the box, and that's not counting exclusives.

Not that terrible for just the first day. I don't recall Mantic ever really going wild until later in the campaign.

Just wait for the day they decide to unveil 3d terrain accessories, which I'd be shocked if they didn't end up doing. You know that total will start flying again.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Hmm.. this started with 22 minis at $100... I know the KS is adding minis for free, but how much of those will end up in the box set anyway?

Mars Attacks was a lot more clear, if it was the game box being upgraded, it was stated. Not sure if all of the current freebies are going to be included in the box or not anyway (with the exception of the resin exclusive).

Yes, I think getting to see what a retail version would contain (and how much that would cost) would be pretty helpful - especially for those potential backers that don't use KS much or have no experience with the way Mantic's kickstarters tend to explode towards the end. Really, this is pretty much a clubhouse thing for people who know Mantic anyway.

(on the other hand: out of 4300 backers in the Deadzone KS only 29 backed at the "retail version" level. Looks like Mantic have no interest in selling that via KS)

So in the mail I got for update 6, there's a picture of the resin heroes that says "added FREE to Dungeon Master pledges". But the text says they're payed addons?

^ Yeah it looks like they changed their mind from "free" to "$25 add-on" at some point since the pictures don't match the text.

Mymearan wrote:
So in the mail I got for update 6, there's a picture of the resin heroes that says "added FREE to Dungeon Master pledges". But the text says they're payed addons?

Yeah, they done goofed.

If you check it on the site it shows it as an add on.

I'd prefer free though!

Hmm. Well interesting so far, the addition of the book of manticness is nice as it is a hook into mini gamers not boardgamers. I would have it as a free electronic download though to get the former group in.

But handling wise not impressed.

Mantic Model Material
Ye Gods guys. Stick a picture chart up showing each material on example models. And premium plastic is the worse name for a sub par hobby plastic. It lacks the ease of hard plastic, the details of resin etc. I know they have generally got better and my biggest beef is now mould line placement not the material itself (though still not happy), but still. It isn't even the best in class which I think remains trollcast spun resin.

Poor opening offer
Update that graphic sharpish... I would hope once the painted prepared stretch goals are out the way you have a new graphic showing what you actually want to put in the box. As it is the dungeon game environment is congested and this has no USP that will make people who think Mantic is an insect that eats its partner pre-pay for something they have to wait a year for.
Really coming in at $250,000 starting but with a better initial box set would have been a darn site more exciting and generated a lot more enthusiasm.
Likewise stuff like optional paid extras should have had a limited menu to start with to give people an idea of your direction and intent.

Rules... (progression)
I think what people want is WHQ style progression. I was always sceptical the core DKH rules mechanic (lite stuff, ideal to hang a tactical challenge off though) would go well with character progression in a meaningful way. The idea of flipping the card over to get the upgraded hero doesn't seem to give that nuanced increase.

So if things continue to progress in this way I can see the WHQ market gap remaining...

A solo dungeon master game might be fun incidentally, battling wave after wave of heroes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Hmm.. this started with 22 minis at $100... I know the KS is adding minis for free, but how much of those will end up in the box set anyway?

Mars Attacks was a lot more clear, if it was the game box being upgraded, it was stated. Not sure if all of the current freebies are going to be included in the box or not anyway (with the exception of the resin exclusive).

Not so keen on KS exclusives as paid add-ons either, I think this will be the first Mantic KS where I ditch the "gotta catch 'em all" mentality for the exclusives, $8 per exclusive is too much.

It also suffers from being a fantasy game. There is no unique look like football or a certain type of sci fi skirmish. I have a bunch of models I can use for this, no need to get add-ons unless they are something special.

Now more serouusly - how can I get my dwarf bar in the game?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/oathsworn/clan-mcfiggin-dwarf-brewers

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
So in the mail I got for update 6, there's a picture of the resin heroes that says "added FREE to Dungeon Master pledges". But the text says they're payed addons?

Yeah, they done goofed.

If you check it on the site it shows it as an add on.

I'd prefer free though!

On the site is also ambiguous. The legendary heros are mentioned as an add-on as well as a strech goal. On the other hand the Crypt Stalkers for $30 are referred solely as an add-on. It's not clear.