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I think my biggest problem is just the gap between stretch goals. It's fine to have a reduced 'core' set to start the KS off with, but you can't then have $25 000 gaps to add in 1-3 models at a time. They are currently at nearly 70% of the total number of backers for Mars Attacks (albeit 35% of the funding), and if this is a 'smaller scale' project then it isn't being reflected in the scaling of the stretch goals.

Also not helping are the large stretch goals to simply reach paid add-ons, especially this early in the game.

Stretch goals for paid add-ons are just the worst. I can feel my heart hardening against Mantic on that one.

Plus, I really don't want to put any 'real money' on this until I've received my Mars Attacks minis so I can find out if I even like the material. Couldn't Mantic have waited a month?

You can't ever slow down on the KS train. Apparently.

As for the resin heroes, I think it's pretty clear - it is indeed a $25,000 stretch goal in order to allow us to buy them as paid add-ons. And yeah, it's not especially endearing when the basic box still isn't filled out yet - it's clearly the way they're hoping to get people to pad out their $100 pledges - so expect to see a fair bit of this sort of thing.

I've already pledged my $100. Well, $95. So I'm content to sit on that and shoot the gak here with you guys - I'm not the sort who micromanages their pledge by adding more money every 2 days based on add-ons. I'll adjust on the last day or via the PM. - But they're not exactly making it an irresistible deal for others and new backers to buy into - especially the BG crowd or those who are not familiar with the way that Mantic plays the KS game.

I also kinda think their new "premium plastic" moniker for Restic has the potential to bite them in the arse on this one with the BG crowd. They should probably show some photos, etc of the raw models, but then I guess less people might buy them. They should also probably clarify in big red letters that "coloured plastic" does not mean pre-painted. While I thought it was obvious, there's been at least two posters in this thread who seem to think it means pre-paints, and on reflection, I guess if English isn't your native tongue, "coloured" could easily read as "painted".

I'd post this in the KS comments, but... feth, I'm not going in there.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'd post this in the KS comments, but... feth, I'm not going in there.

As someone who also avoids the comments on Mantic KS, it has so far been broadly constructive and not "feth this I'll wait for the update e-mails".So far.....

Yeah I'm not too sure about the plastic, premium plastic and hard plastic. Hard plastic will be the standard sprue PVC, premium plastic is restic (what's that like anyway?) and regular plastic is boardgame pieces (like Mars Attack or Zombicide?).

The paid add-on stretch seems reasonable; it's clearly a colletor thing, and at an extra $25, if half of the current punters add it we're onto the next goal right away.

The coloured thing is a good point - they could really do with some images of what you actually get in the box. For instance, are the bases really textured like that?

Edit: They've got a photo of the contents that shows them coloured but not painted:

Did everyone else just get a "we're here to help you" message from Mantic/this KS? At a guess, it might be there to help out the BG/Heroquest crowd and make the KS a nice experience for them?

Yeah I just got one too

Herzlos wrote:
Yeah I'm not too sure about the plastic, premium plastic and hard plastic. Hard plastic will be the standard sprue PVC, premium plastic is restic (what's that like anyway?) and regular plastic is boardgame pieces (like Mars Attack or Zombicide?).

Not quite; hard plastic is standard sprue polystyrene, specifically Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene or ABS for short, premium plastic aka restic is standard PVC like half the ranges from Mantic and Privateer Press, boardgame plastic is a much different recipe of PVC which gives a softer, more flexible and hence more resilient product with the addition of dyes to make them coloured.

The difference between seasons/games of Mantic and Privateer Press released is just a matter of minor tinkering with the recipe to make them easier to work with, less prone to faults, get sharper detail, etc, otherwise it's all the same.

The 'premium plastic' moniker itself is stupid, but the material is fine.

Herzlos wrote:
Yeah I'm not too sure about the plastic, premium plastic and hard plastic. Hard plastic will be the standard sprue PVC, premium plastic is restic (what's that like anyway?) and regular plastic is boardgame pieces (like Mars Attack or Zombicide?).

The paid add-on stretch seems reasonable; it's clearly a colletor thing, and at an extra $25, if half of the current punters add it we're onto the next goal right away.

Hard Plastic = polystyrene like what is used by GW, WGF, etc. It's the one that takes plastic glue and is generally viewed as a good mass-market material. Very little variation from one shot of a sprue to another.

"Premium" Plastic = Restic, which is a formulation of PVC. It's not particularly easy to clean/work with compared to most materials, and can easily be miscast. Variation between models can be huge in terms of mold lines and details. A decent low-cost material, but risky to buy sight-unseen; you can very easily end up with a dud cast which, while Mantic is good about replacing such things, is another hassle. Probably the material you will told to avoid if possible by most posters around here.

Board game plastic is Mantic's new gig for Mars Attacks, DBX and now this. It's similar to Loka and Gears of War from all reports. Single-piece and supposedly without massive obnoxious lines. However, we've not really gotten a large amount of the stuff into the market so quality remains a question Mark.

As far as why people are bothered by stretch goals for paid add-ones, you essentially have no stretch goal for that slot. If Mantic offered something that nobody wanted, there is no benefit to the project for that bracket. While sometimes to keep pace, goals are put up for less than when they would really make, that goes into the "games" that people dislike. I think if they just made those available more on a schedule than at a funding amount, people would be less put off by them.

Herzlos wrote:
Edit: They've got a photo of the contents that shows them coloured but not painted:

See, that to me looks like a £20 game.

It certainly isn't worth US$125 down here...

Munster wrote:
It certainly isn't worth US$125 down here...

Keyword is "yet".

The next two stretch add 4 large undead trolls and i bet we will see $250K by the end of the day.

I think I'm just going to list the contents of the box and mini count this time in the OP rather than doing the usual "Kickstarter bonus freebie" thing.. we don't know the RRP of the box at the moment, or what it will contain so I don't want to be misleading.

*boop*

Next stretch goal...

Zombie trolls look pretty darn sweet.

With the lack of clarity of what is going to end up in the eventual retail box I wonder if it's a case of mantic not actually knowing yet

Maybe the add-ons resins are potential add in's to the main box, but only if enough people order them

If so it becomes cost effective (and much more time efficient) to switch them to plastic like they did for the strider mech in deadzone (they'll offer extras or refunds for those who don't want plastic), and once a sculpt is in plastic it becomes cheap enough to stick it in the main box

The resins are KS only, and not likely to be part of the game. I guess the board game plastic pieces will likely all be standard in the game though.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
See, that to me looks like a £20 game.

In it's current guise, yes, I can see it retailing at about £30, but there's still 26 days of freebies to add in so it'll be a completely different prospect at the end.

The Undead Trolls do look a lot better than their living counterparts!

Also, the 4 paid add-on heroes are "premium resin"?

Premium resin from Mantic is actually good. They mean, actual resin, not restic or pvc or anything else.

I have some of their resin minis and they make restic look like crap.

I've updated the OP in the usual fashion, but until a clearer picture of what is in the retail box emerges, it is safe to assume that the only actual freebies that currently exist are the things clearly marked as Kickstarter Exclusive.

So, 2 resin minis, a mini-book and an art print currently.

 Alpharius wrote:
Also, the 4 paid add-on heroes are "premium resin"?

In fairness, due to the existence of finecast, I think they (and anyone else) have a good case for attaching "premium" to the description

I think Alph's point is that they really should stop adding the word "premium" to everything.

I agree - Both because it sounds stupid (like "Finecast" is a stupid name regardless of the actual quality of the stuff), because "Premium Plastic" for restic is a terrible descriptor since it's a lower-quality material than HIPS, and because in a world where everything is "Premium", nothing is premium....

 Alpharius wrote:
The Undead Trolls do look a lot better than their living counterparts!

Also, the 4 paid add-on heroes are "premium resin"?

If you don't like the living ones Alph, you could always try these (currently OOP but he's re-casting them in resin)

Heh. We've got some Raging Heroes-style stretch goal shenanigans in the updates.

The first infographic for the Zombie Troll shaman has $225k. The amended one they just sent out has $250k.

Seems like possibly a follow-up to the resin heroes being a free stretch and then becoming a paid add-on?

Looks a li'l like Hogger ; p
edit: beat me by 3 seconds -_-

Heh. If Mantic is going to try and play the game with us to this extent, they could at least get their fake-stretch gifs organised properly...

Really? Another mantic Kickstarter? I refuse to believe they don't have the capital to fund this project themselves. I want to be on their side as they're an upstart British company, but if can't help but think they're starting to abuse the Kickstarter format.

They're using it exactly for its purpose - to fund the startup costs of a product. They're hardly a behemoth.

I'm totally fine with them using KS to raise the capital. I don't think they're rolling in liquid funds or anything. Most of their funds would be tied up in production and pumping out their existing KS products. The stretch goal game they're playing on the other hand is a bit shamefully cynical of them.

Did Mantic pull a raging heroes and incorrectly update a stretch goal value showing us the initial value before they jacked it up substantially? ; p

It doesn't matter if Mantic is a big or small company. There is nothing saying Kickstarter can only be used by small, independant companies, and I'm getting sick of hearing otherwise. From a kid in his basement to Mantic to Veronica Mars, KS is simply a platform for a creator to solitic funds from potential fans of their product, nothing more.

 Yonan wrote:
They're using it exactly for its purpose - to fund the startup costs of a product. They're hardly a behemoth.

I'd actually argue that in Kickstarter terms they are. Deadzone cleared well over a million, which is probably in the top 2% of Wargaming related kickstarters. It's a great tool for the upstarts who literally have no other way of funding their projects, and sometimes their dreams. I have a hard time believing that this is the only way that Mantic could fund such a project.