Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yeah is still £16.50 in the offer due to P&P

 Riquende wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Now full hard plastic Warpath models without integrated bases and I'll throw money at it and just hope for the best

Do the Deadzone plastic sprues have integrated bases? I thought a sprue pic was floating around, can't find it now though. That's probably the best indicator.

My Deadzone zombies just turned up and they don't have the integrated bases. The models look really nice, with plenty of detail.

@Judgedoug

Let's not get back into it. Large scale purchases are normally ok but I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to getting burned via the characters that I purchased. Also the individual starter set savings, if any existed, were neglible if you only wanted 1 faction. For KoW they had BOGOF for 3-man units (ogres) and then released those sets in units of 6 for the same cost as the BOGOF.

There is value in mass ordering admittedly. Also part of my issue was how they handled the plastic FF's in not allowing us to purchase just those instead of only sets that included them which went againts what they originally said which was everything on the first survey will be on the second.

 endtransmission wrote:

 Riquende wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Now full hard plastic Warpath models without integrated bases and I'll throw money at it and just hope for the best

Do the Deadzone plastic sprues have integrated bases? I thought a sprue pic was floating around, can't find it now though. That's probably the best indicator.

My Deadzone zombies just turned up and they don't have the integrated bases. The models look really nice, with plenty of detail.

Yep, saw that when I got home too. The zombies are actually pretty great and give me hope for Mantic plastic production going forward. And no integrated bases!!!!!! Almost makes me wish I'd gotten more than 85

 Baragash wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm somewhat interested in looking at GoB and have been for awhile, but I need to get 80 quid worth of stuff I want from Foundry at one time to make it worthwhile with the postage and all, and frankly, that's a gakload of money to be looking for something I want when there are so many other things I really actually do want and need to save/wait for. (Saga, for example)

Which is a shame, as having just picked it up on the half price deal, my first read through makes me quite like it (alternate activation and control zones on units has the potential for an interesting puzzle).

If it were a free download, etc, I'd definitely check it out, and if I liked it enough, I'd buy the book at some stage as well. But needing to spend 80 quid just to get the rules (or pay 6 quid postage for a 12 pound book...) - either just to have a look... Maybe in 2 weeks when I get my next pay if it's still on sale.

 Azazelx wrote:

They're selling an incomplete game for $100. These goals are as fake as a three-dollar bill. The only (likely) part of that equation that's truth is that the game will cost, say, 250k to produce and the $50k goal is also as fake as a three-dollar bill - lowballed in order to meet the funding target ASAP and end up on the KS home page's "hottest hits" or whatever it's called as a project that's met 300% or 500% of it's funding goal.

Or they just have that as a base game (what they'd release with 100% funding) and are genuinely adding stuff as the funding level allows it. All of these extra items to require sculpting and tooling to be done. It's possible that they had to adjust the stretch values after looking at the maths again and realising they were off.

Or most likely, it's a combination of the 2.

Perhaps, but the base game as it was presented to us initially isn't worth $100 in their wettest of dreams. Which is my point.

On the other hand, I don't believe for a moment that they had to look at the maths again in the last few days and change their plans. They're not stupid, they've got a history of "playing the game" in KS, and they've had months to work out their plans. They will have several variations on their assorted stretch goals and such, and are playing the game in a way that they believe will maximise their fundraising.

Off topic, but easy basing for hard plastic zombies - http://www.champindustries.net/bases.html

So Beasts of War have the extended interview with Ronnie up - it's for Backstage pass holders so i won't spoil it all but of note

First Expansion - Orcs and Goblins includes new tiles and rulebook and rules for the current KoW Orc and Goblin range

Second Expansion - Abyssal Dwarfs

There is a large boss planned for the end.

3D furniture and doors are planned but not plastic dungeon tiles (unless funding goes really crazy)

They are also running a compettiton for pass holders to win their pledge.

 Azazelx wrote:
Perhaps, but the base game as it was presented to us initially isn't worth $100 in their wettest of dreams. Which is my point.

On the other hand, I don't believe for a moment that they had to look at the maths again in the last few days and change their plans. They're not stupid, they've got a history of "playing the game" in KS, and they've had months to work out their plans. They will have several variations on their assorted stretch goals and such, and are playing the game in a way that they believe will maximise their fundraising.

I agree with the point made. Mantic knows what their "final" offering actually looks like and it is worth more than $100 at retail price. However, this hypothetical box would cost, let's say $350,000 to produce for the sake of argument. What Az is saying is that he'd prefer if Mantic put up the full offering that was worth the price on its face and set their project goal accordingly rather than having dribs and drabs to fill out the box just so they can set an artificially low funding goal and say "look! We funded in 4 minutes!" which is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

It's all "part of the game" to make the process "fun" and while I understand that in the end it doesn't really make a huge difference it does seem like an asinine way to conduct business. It leaves their fans in the awkward position of saying "Oh, they'll fill it out later guys, don't worry!" which then prompts the valid question of "Why the hell didn't you just be up-front with it in the first place?" The slew of updates builds excitement, but I do have to question if that minor psychology trick for the early adopters offsets people who look at the campaign, see a terrible value proposition because it was cut-down to meet an artificial goal and then never return because they don't know of the Mantic Antics. Obviously that's practically impossible to really track/quantify, but I do have to wonder if they're leaving money on the table due to the "fake stretch goals" model.

I do keep hoping to see the "killer model" or gameplay mode that makes it worth spending the money now.

 agnosto wrote:
My group and I are in the "D&D lite" category. We want something with enough depth to keep a campaign interesting but rules-lite enough that we can enjoy each other's company and just laugh.

Descent 2E is really close to that; we wound up changing a few things to make it more to our liking but we continue to look for something different and closer to our style.

That was our favorite part about Warhammer Quest - the inbetween adventuring and rolling on all the crazy charts GW design team invented back in the day. Too bad the game itself isn't that great. Descent 2 is still just too tactical combat for most of us, but we also don't like D&D4 for the same reason.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Judgedoug

Also part of my issue was how they handled the plastic FF's in not allowing us to purchase just those instead of only sets that included them which went againts what they originally said which was everything on the first survey will be on the second.

Actually, you could pick up FF sprues on the second survey. I grabbed a couple.

So the "add-on Wednesday" offerings are up in the latest update. No real must haves in there.

winterwolf wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Judgedoug

Also part of my issue was how they handled the plastic FF's in not allowing us to purchase just those instead of only sets that included them which went againts what they originally said which was everything on the first survey will be on the second.

Actually, you could pick up FF sprues on the second survey. I grabbed a couple.

Just curious but for how much per set? I sweat I looked over that thing 30 times looking for a way to get them seperate and they just weren't there. I even asked about it in the comments and they said the only way to get them was thru the starters or BOGOF. That makes me a sad panda Especially given how the plastic zombies and terrain turned out (excellent)

 DaveC wrote:
So Beasts of War have the extended interview with Ronnie up - it's for Backstage pass holders so i won't spoil it all but of note

First Expansion - Orcs and Goblins includes new tiles and rulebook and rules for the current KoW Orc and Goblin range

Second Expansion - Abyssal Dwarfs

There is a large boss planned for the end.

3D furniture and doors are planned but not plastic dungeon tiles (unless funding goes really crazy)

They are also running a compettiton for pass holders to win their pledge.

Ronnie: "The first thing I've always found with Kickstarters is if you get too giddy to early you don't tend to end up finishing what you've got".

So its add-on Wednesday (which is now a thing )

Halls of Dolgarth – Dungeon Tile + Furniture Pack


Evil Dead – Extra Undead Miniatures for your adventure


Enhance your Game! - Counter Upgrade Set

Spoiler:

Collector's Edition Resin Miniatures

Not too bad looking deals, the bone counters look pretty nice.

Transparent resin and resin tokens? Damnit Ronnie, hands out of my wallet! Not keen on any of the other addons I've seen yet though.

I quite like those wound counters.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I quite like those wound counters.

Those ARE schnazzy, and would be a nice addition even to other games.

Whoops forgot to post a link to the update itself, here you go: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest/posts/941972

There's a lot more info in the KS update about these add-ons I suggest you all give it a read through.

The zombie troll looks like he's saying "Has anybody lost an 80's cellphone?"

 Krinsath wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Perhaps, but the base game as it was presented to us initially isn't worth $100 in their wettest of dreams. Which is my point.

On the other hand, I don't believe for a moment that they had to look at the maths again in the last few days and change their plans. They're not stupid, they've got a history of "playing the game" in KS, and they've had months to work out their plans. They will have several variations on their assorted stretch goals and such, and are playing the game in a way that they believe will maximise their fundraising.

I agree with the point made. Mantic knows what their "final" offering actually looks like and it is worth more than $100 at retail price. However, this hypothetical box would cost, let's say $350,000 to produce for the sake of argument. What Az is saying is that he'd prefer if Mantic put up the full offering that was worth the price on its face and set their project goal accordingly rather than having dribs and drabs to fill out the box just so they can set an artificially low funding goal and say "look! We funded in 4 minutes!" which is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I do keep hoping to see the "killer model" or gameplay mode that makes it worth spending the money now.

That's what Gates Of Antares tried and it failed by about $100k. This approach, whilst a bit "gamey" would still allow them to be successful, even if they need to launch with slightly less than expected. I do agree that as it sits, it's not worth the $100 asking price though. So it's a tricky one I don't know what the right balance is.

 Hulksmash wrote:

winterwolf wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Judgedoug

Also part of my issue was how they handled the plastic FF's in not allowing us to purchase just those instead of only sets that included them which went againts what they originally said which was everything on the first survey will be on the second.

Actually, you could pick up FF sprues on the second survey. I grabbed a couple.

Just curious but for how much per set? I sweat I looked over that thing 30 times looking for a way to get them seperate and they just weren't there. I even asked about it in the comments and they said the only way to get them was thru the starters or BOGOF. That makes me a sad panda Especially given how the plastic zombies and terrain turned out (excellent)

Off the top of my head, $10 each, same as peacekeeper enforcers. I just added a comment to my survey that if they were 10 or 15 each, add a couple and it was added to my tab. I did mention it to Ronnie at adepticon and he seemed puzzled. Said they should have been available separately.

Edit: I guess it's best not to ask if you can do it. Instead just say take my money. Dunno... Have to make sure they show up still.

Son of a *insert explenative*. I would have bought between 8 and 10 sprues of the dang things. I was considering building a terminator 40k army out of them.

Well at least I didn't miss them in the actual survey. But that pisses me off a little more honestly. Mostly because it's going to cost me twice that after retail likely to pick them up unless they price them at $20.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Let's not get back into it. Large scale purchases are normally ok but I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to getting burned via the characters that I purchased. Also the individual starter set savings, if any existed, were neglible if you only wanted 1 faction. For KoW they had BOGOF for 3-man units (ogres) and then released those sets in units of 6 for the same cost as the BOGOF.

And then when there were complaints, they added 3 ogres to each BOGO if you wanted. They also added an unpromised army set which added even more value. I don't love their execution (should have just added 3 to all ogre BOGOs without asking), but the value was there.

Herzlos wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Perhaps, but the base game as it was presented to us initially isn't worth $100 in their wettest of dreams. Which is my point.

On the other hand, I don't believe for a moment that they had to look at the maths again in the last few days and change their plans. They're not stupid, they've got a history of "playing the game" in KS, and they've had months to work out their plans. They will have several variations on their assorted stretch goals and such, and are playing the game in a way that they believe will maximise their fundraising.

I agree with the point made. Mantic knows what their "final" offering actually looks like and it is worth more than $100 at retail price. However, this hypothetical box would cost, let's say $350,000 to produce for the sake of argument. What Az is saying is that he'd prefer if Mantic put up the full offering that was worth the price on its face and set their project goal accordingly rather than having dribs and drabs to fill out the box just so they can set an artificially low funding goal and say "look! We funded in 4 minutes!" which is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I do keep hoping to see the "killer model" or gameplay mode that makes it worth spending the money now.

That's what Gates Of Antares tried and it failed by about $100k. This approach, whilst a bit "gamey" would still allow them to be successful, even if they need to launch with slightly less than expected. I do agree that as it sits, it's not worth the $100 asking price though. So it's a tricky one I don't know what the right balance is.

The comparisons to Zombies VS Bunnies has already begun where this was fake stretch goaled and not enough value out of the gate and then it collapsed under a wave of people feeling cheated. At this pace, if they add 3 models every 50k, it still won't be a 100$ worthy boxed set when they hit 1 million, especially since every other addition is not new sculpts. I don't see how they can say 'the value will be there' unless they begin 5k multi-figure goals.

nkelsch wrote:
At this pace, if they add 3 models every 50k, it still won't be a 100$ worthy boxed set when they hit 1 million, especially since every other addition is not new sculpts. I don't see how they can say 'the value will be there' unless they begin 5k multi-figure goals.

Same thing happened to deadzone. Mantic twice, just for the hell of it, threw in a faction pack. I'm not sure what the equivalent to that would be, but I'm sure when the campaign stalls out, Mantic will throw in some goodies.

But Mantic's track record has shown that when things slow down, they start throwing things at backers to get them to stay.

Case in point- the tail end of Mars Attacks, throwing in free choice teams for DBE, giving extra Enforcers to DZ players to tide them over while we wait for the hard plastics....

If things start going too far south, I'm sure Mantic has some sort of contingency plan.

It's also only the first week of the campaign.

 Krinsath wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I quite like those wound counters.

Those ARE schnazzy, and would be a nice addition even to other games.

Yeah, I agree, I might get two or three sets just to have cool wound tokens to use for even Kings of War or Hail Caesar/Black Powder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Son of a *insert explenative*. I would have bought between 8 and 10 sprues of the dang things. I was considering building a terminator 40k army out of them.

Well at least I didn't miss them in the actual survey. But that pisses me off a little more honestly. Mostly because it's going to cost me twice that after retail likely to pick them up unless they price them at $20.

Email them - they let me change my survey the other day for one additional thing. As long as it hasn't shipped yet they seem very happy with adding more stuff. Do it! Actually Kai on their Facebook page has been awesome, just message them directly on facebook and be like "I didn't know! Let me give you money!"

First week? Hell it hasn't even been 72 hrs and folks are getting awful antsy thinking they are going to get ripped off. This is especially ridiculous as no one has spent a red cent. You can cancel your pledge at the last second of the last day.

So my question, are other Kickstarter campaign threads on Dakka usually this negative?

 tgmoore wrote:
So my question, are other Kickstarter campaign threads on Dakka usually this negative?

Unless they're at a crazy deal level, then they're always fairly negative. All the big KS companies have extra negativity added, even if they reach crazy deal levels.