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In the Ork codex, the player has the option to take an additional Mek for each non-Mek HQ slot. Sometime before the beginning of the game, the Mek(s) are assigned to an Infantry or Artillery unit of the player's choice, and remain with that unit for the rest of the game. So here's the loophole I'm seeing:

1. Take three non-Mek HQs and three Meks.
2. Suppose you've got a Big Mek among those HQs (btw, would that count as non-Mek? It either does or doesn't depending on how strictly you interpret the rules). Big Mek's an Infantry IC, so it counts as a unit on its own, which means you can assign the Meks to its unit.
3. So now you've got a unit containing three Meks and one Big Mek. But again, the Big Mek's an IC, so it can now choose to leave the unit.
4. End result: stand-alone unit of three Meks (and a Big Mek running around somewhere else).

I'm planning on running something like this, leaving the Meks in the belly of my Gorkanaut. You people see any flaws in this brilliant plan?

Seems like it could work except for one thing.

The meks are "assigned" to the big mek and have to remain with him.

This is a very specific rule, and thus might be considered to override the basic IC rules.


I dont personally see a problem with it (as techmarines and motf can leave their servitors), but some people might find issue with it.

Except IC rules aren't basic. Basic rules are like moving and shooting, that sort of thing. IC rules are exceptions to the basic rules for units, whereas the Mek rules don't interfere with the unit rules. Thus IC should also be an exception to the Mek rules, rather than vice versa.

(Thanks yakface!)

Dude, it says right in the rule that the Mek cannot leave that unit. Thus the mek cannot leave the BIg Mek... so no, it won't work.


And no, you can't get around it by having the Big Mek leave the mek... you get the same result.... and the result is not legal.

RAW I think it can be argued that he would be able leave the unit

It really depends on how the wording "cannot leave the unit" is written, and IC wording of "Joining and leaving units"

When both are compared properly, the loophole might only work if you add 2 Meks to 1 Big Mek, and they form a unit with themselves, rather than 1 Mek with 1 Big Mek wich might have more dire consequences...

coredump wrote:
Dude, it says right in the rule that the Mek cannot leave that unit. Thus the mek cannot leave the BIg Mek... so no, it won't work.


And no, you can't get around it by having the Big Mek leave the mek... you get the same result.... and the result is not legal.

So when an IC joins a unit, the unit also joins the IC?

Otherwise an IC leaving a unit does not mean the unit leaves the IC

nosferatu1001 wrote:

coredump wrote:
Dude, it says right in the rule that the Mek cannot leave that unit. Thus the mek cannot leave the BIg Mek... so no, it won't work.


And no, you can't get around it by having the Big Mek leave the mek... you get the same result.... and the result is not legal.

So when an IC joins a unit, the unit also joins the IC?

Otherwise an IC leaving a unit does not mean the unit leaves the IC

But can an IC leave the IC unit?

For example, can a Farseer, leave a Farseer unit?


If the Mek is joined to the Big Mek, then the Mek is part of the Big Mek unit. What happens when the Big Mek leaves the Big Mek unit (assuming it can)?

Basically the mek's become the big mek's bodyguard (just like if a tau etheral takes the little naked tau guys) and cannot ditch them (since they cannot leave his side).

Eihnlazer,
What "Naked Tau Guys" which can be taken as Bodyguards for an Ethereal?
The only Ethereal Unit that contains Models that come close to matching that description start with them as part of the Unit, and the other Model in that Unit is not a Independent Character, so it isn't even close to a similar situation....

Given that the Mek has the Infantry type I don't see why you cant take Meks for each HQ and then simply assign the Meks to each other as a unit. It may not be what GW intended, but I think it would be legal.

Honestly jinx i could be thinking of an older edition or just that one named ethereal.

Why not just take 5 burnas and make 3 of them meks? Then you are free to use your hq meks as you like.

Eihnlazer,
Just stating it is a bad comparison as the Unit you are trying to reference doesn't exist and, if it had, the lack of Independent Character prevents it being anything like the situation being discussed.
Has there ever been any other 'Super Sargent' Model that could be attached to nothing but a single Independent Character?

As far as I'm aware, an IC is considered to be its own unit unless it's with other models, in which case it's part of that unit. Assigning meks to the IC creates a unit that is not the IC on its own. The meks can't leave this new unit, but the IC can because of the IC rules.

What would happen is the Big mek would move away from the meks, however since they dont have permission to move away from him, they would have to stay within coherency with him.

However it is explicitly an IC that choose to leave a unit, not the meks. Nothing compels them to move as tehy are not leaving the unit, the unit is leaving them.

HIWPI no, loophole is loophole. We rule out loopholes.

Seems like GW wrote in the assumption Joining / Leaving was a 2 way thing rather than the 1 way thing it is. Looked likely with the IC's and MC's and now looks more so with circumventing restrictions here. Hmm.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
However it is explicitly an IC that choose to leave a unit, not the meks. Nothing compels them to move as tehy are not leaving the unit, the unit is leaving them.

nos, the problem is if they are attached to the Big Mek, then they are part of the Big Mek unit. If the Big Mek wants to go off and do his own thing, which theoretically he could, and leaves the unit behind, then you have a Bg Mek unit consisting of a Mek, and a Big Mek that is not part of any unit, as he has left the unit of himself. Furthermore, while the Big Mek could theoretically leave the Meks, the Meks are required to stay in coherency with the Big Mek, as they are part of his unit.

 Happyjew wrote:
Furthermore, while the Big Mek could theoretically leave the Meks, the Meks are required to stay in coherency with the Big Mek, as they are part of his unit.

This just sounds so... Ork

"Fellas, go get those Umies, i'm getting in dis Trukk"

"But boooooss..."
*Meks run after the trukk*

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Furthermore, while the Big Mek could theoretically leave the Meks, the Meks are required to stay in coherency with the Big Mek, as they are part of his unit.

This just sounds so... Ork

"Fellas, go get those Umies, i'm getting in dis Trukk"

"But boooooss..."
*Meks run after the trukk*

This is exactly how I would play it. The big guy can leave, as he's larger, but his smaller buddies must chase after him.
Because... it's so orky.

-Matt

I don't think it's a loophole.

It's this.. A mek can't leave his unit (raw)

A big mek does not have that restriction

Leaving your unit happens in the movement phase..

If the big mek leaves. Ok.

The Meks do not follow.. they now are on their own as they can't leave each other..

Raw

Except as noted above by Happyjew:

Happyjew wrote:... the problem is if they are attached to the Big Mek, then they are part of the Big Mek unit. If the Big Mek wants to go off and do his own thing, which theoretically he could, and leaves the unit behind, then you have a Bg Mek unit consisting of a Mek, and a Big Mek that is not part of any unit, as he has left the unit of himself. Furthermore, while the Big Mek could theoretically leave the Meks, the Meks are required to stay in coherency with the Big Mek, as they are part of his unit.

Let's get creative.. Move the Meks first.. Keeping coherency.. then move the big mek away

Or.. Have him first enter a vehicle that the Meks can't all reach..

Or... Move the big mek with his Meks next to another unit and at the end of the movement phase declare the big mek with the other unit

Same problem as already mentioned above.

Except when you leave you again become a unit of one model, meaning he become s aBig mek unit

He leaves a big mek unit and becomes a big mek unit. He does "belong" toa unit - himself. Just, weirdly, the unit that is left behind is also a big mek unit..without any big meks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
the unit that is left behind is also a big mek unit..without any big meks.

But is that unit truly without any big meks? as they are compulsed to be attached to him (and technically, in their view, part of that new Big mek unit that contains the big mek). Does their world truly exist?
Mek Matrix is all i have to say.

They cant leave the unit but the unit can leave them? Makes perfect sense. or does it?

Sounds like a semantics argument. Semantics over a 40k rulebook?!?!?!

Breaking the game with a scenario not thought of by the rules developers. Red card.

 BlackTalos wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
the unit that is left behind is also a big mek unit..without any big meks.

But is that unit truly without any big meks? as they are compulsed to be attached to him (and technically, in their view, part of that new Big mek unit that contains the big mek). Does their world truly exist?
Mek Matrix is all i have to say.

Keep in mind that the big mek could also simply be killed. When the big mek dies and leaves the three meks behind, they still are a unit by themselves. Since units aren't named in game terms, it's pretty much irrelevant whether it's a big mek unit or not.

If you join three meks to a unit of X boyz and a warboss, the warboss is also allowed to leave that unit, even if everything but the three meks has been shot to dead. It's pretty much the same as the big mek leaving his three meks. Three meks can form a unit which none of them can leave.

There also is a downside to these shenanigans, since you have to deploy your big mek with the three meks, since there is no rule that allows an IC to leave a unit before the game starts.