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 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

Barfolomew wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The shares closed up 5%.

5.

Honestly, that's essentially zero reaction. As I said earlier, over 60% of the shares are owned by a combination of institutions and staff, not the sort of owners likely to dump stock at the drop of a hat, all the flighty types already got scared away in January.

I tend to agree. I find it very odd that an annual report comes out that is basically very negative and the CEO sounds like a raging alcoholic, yet no one dumps their stock. To me this seems like people who have bought into a pile, now realize they bought a pile, but don't want to be the first off the ship and loose money. I also think there is a chance that the people who are invested have no idea what is actually going on and are buying into Kirby speak and/or waiting on the new CEO.

Or they realize how bad it is and they are waiting patiently for the others to offload their stock cheap, snatch them up and take over with less effort, which could be what Kirby has planned for himself. Drive the ship down far enough where everyone hops off, take the money you have set aside for such time, and do a buyout when it's at it's lowest taking it private again. Then he/they can hope that they haven't ruined the IP so much that they can re-release all the old stuff like the specialist games, be done with the Hobbit anchor and get the business running again.

This probably isnt too far from the truth - I have thought it for a while.

Send company under then buy out select parts (IP Head Office and Manufacturing) in either a pre pack admin or as head of an investment shell.

As it stands I don't think anyone would take on the company in its present active form.

If Kirby is behind that, I'm damn sure it's illegal, possibly even criminal, with a publicly traded company.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I confidently predict that this time next year that GW will still be around, Kilkrazy will be generously translating all that accounting/annual report stuff into something I can understand, Weeble will still be lamenting Alan M's courtroom performance , H.B.M.C et al will still be predicting the end of GW, and I'll be writing a post which is 99% similar to this one.

If not, I'll bare my backside in front of GW HQ

Next year you should be fine but the year after that you will probably be getting arrested for indecent exposure.

So if you take the previous preamble and CEO's statement at face value about the reduction in sales through stores being the result of being open less hours and figure out how a similar impact will occur when the remaining stores switch over to single employee operations, you find both a source of future revenue decline and a source of future cost savings.

The current 117 multi-employee stores might account for £24 million GBP of GW's revenue (if some things I've heard hold true and the multi-employee stores are hitting their sales targets). I've heard from two separate sources that when a store switched to being a single employee store, it loses about 40% of it's revenue.

So just by transitioning the last 117 stores over to single employee stores, they will reduce their revenue by another £9.9 million.

And that's assume the products they release at the prices they choose for them don't cause those stores to sell less.

In doing so though, they will save quite a bit in terms of salary and rent in exchange for giving up that revenue. 117 x full time staff + key time or part time staff.

So that's who they have left to cut to cut expenses. Those 117 stores worth of non-manager staffers.

North America is the problem region for them right now. It's the one where the single employee store model just isn't working and stores are closing faster than they are being opened. In the last year they went from 100 to 87 stores and 63 of those are single employee.

"Our ability to open new stores is still (and always will be) limited by our ability to find the right people to run them. Although we are getting better at it, it is still our number one priority. "

So they are going to be getting rid of a few hundred more employees and keeping a sub-section of them who are up for being single employee location operators who are into hard sales tactics and hitting sales goals or losing their jobs. All while knowing doing so will cause a "temporary" reduction in their revenue as even more stores are open less hours.

---

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

Barfolomew wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The shares closed up 5%.

5.

Honestly, that's essentially zero reaction. As I said earlier, over 60% of the shares are owned by a combination of institutions and staff, not the sort of owners likely to dump stock at the drop of a hat, all the flighty types already got scared away in January.

I tend to agree. I find it very odd that an annual report comes out that is basically very negative and the CEO sounds like a raging alcoholic, yet no one dumps their stock. To me this seems like people who have bought into a pile, now realize they bought a pile, but don't want to be the first off the ship and loose money. I also think there is a chance that the people who are invested have no idea what is actually going on and are buying into Kirby speak and/or waiting on the new CEO.

Or they realize how bad it is and they are waiting patiently for the others to offload their stock cheap, snatch them up and take over with less effort, which could be what Kirby has planned for himself. Drive the ship down far enough where everyone hops off, take the money you have set aside for such time, and do a buyout when it's at it's lowest taking it private again. Then he/they can hope that they haven't ruined the IP so much that they can re-release all the old stuff like the specialist games, be done with the Hobbit anchor and get the business running again.

This probably isnt too far from the truth - I have thought it for a while.

Send company under then buy out select parts (IP Head Office and Manufacturing) in either a pre pack admin or as head of an investment shell.

As it stands I don't think anyone would take on the company in its present active form.

If Kirby is behind that, I'm damn sure it's illegal, possibly even criminal, with a publicly traded company.

Not illegal to be a stubborn old mule. The business can go under and Kirby can still be in position to buy its carcass up.

 frozenwastes wrote:
North America is the problem region for them right now. It's the one where the single employee store model just isn't working and stores are closing faster than they are being opened. In the last year they went from 100 to 87 stores and 63 of those are single employee.

I understand at least one reason why GW doesn't want their business in NA to rely on FLGSs. For every good store, there's probably two bad ones who won't sell their products properly.

But man, the geography is what it is. It just seems they'd be much better served in NA by a transition back to stronger trade sales support supplemented by fewer but larger retail destination stores in key metro areas.

I really don't like to play armchair CEO, just because we lack access to the numbers and real information that GW uses in developing its business strategy. Undoubtedly a number of our assumptions would be proven wrong. But the history of the US store chain is full of stops and starts and expansions and retractions going back years and years. And that choppiness is a problem for a retail chain that tends to develop communities around its stores. I don't think we're fundamentally wrong by saying that there are some real problems with applying the UK model to NA.

xxvaderxx wrote:
I think that the key line people are missing is:

Pre-tax profit £12.4m down from £21.4m
Combined with this
Revenue £123.5m down from £134.6m

That is almost 50% profitability lost, and sales changed from flat lining to decline.

Both put together = deep gak.

Yeah who wants to make 10 Million more dollars eh?

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

Barfolomew wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The shares closed up 5%.

5.

Honestly, that's essentially zero reaction. As I said earlier, over 60% of the shares are owned by a combination of institutions and staff, not the sort of owners likely to dump stock at the drop of a hat, all the flighty types already got scared away in January.

I tend to agree. I find it very odd that an annual report comes out that is basically very negative and the CEO sounds like a raging alcoholic, yet no one dumps their stock. To me this seems like people who have bought into a pile, now realize they bought a pile, but don't want to be the first off the ship and loose money. I also think there is a chance that the people who are invested have no idea what is actually going on and are buying into Kirby speak and/or waiting on the new CEO.

Or they realize how bad it is and they are waiting patiently for the others to offload their stock cheap, snatch them up and take over with less effort, which could be what Kirby has planned for himself. Drive the ship down far enough where everyone hops off, take the money you have set aside for such time, and do a buyout when it's at it's lowest taking it private again. Then he/they can hope that they haven't ruined the IP so much that they can re-release all the old stuff like the specialist games, be done with the Hobbit anchor and get the business running again.

This probably isnt too far from the truth - I have thought it for a while.

Send company under then buy out select parts (IP Head Office and Manufacturing) in either a pre pack admin or as head of an investment shell.

As it stands I don't think anyone would take on the company in its present active form.

If Kirby is behind that, I'm damn sure it's illegal, possibly even criminal, with a publicly traded company.

Not illegal to be a stubborn old mule. The business can go under and Kirby can still be in position to buy its carcass up.

Running the business in a manner designed to harm it's performance and reduce it's share price for his own ends is very much illegal.

Proving intent over incompetence however, would be a very different, and difficult, thing.

gorgon wrote:the history of the US store chain is full of stops and starts and expansions and retractions going back years and years. And that choppiness is a problem for a retail chain that tends to develop communities around its stores. I don't think we're fundamentally wrong by saying that there are some real problems with applying the UK model to NA.

It just doesn't work. Period. North America has more stores closing than opening, while in the UK the plan is sort of working and they have more stores opening than closing.

And they keep blaming the staff and saying the real challenge is finding the right people.

The problem is that anyone who can do classic and proven hard sales techniques has an huge array of commission sales opportunities in America. You can work for GW for a low salary and a bit of a bonus here and there, or you can work for a sales company for full commissions and make way more. They're also not going to sales training seminars and networking meetings and the type of places these people congregate in order to recruit them. Instead we had posts here on dakka trying to get people to "be legendary" or whatever.

First two responses from The Bolter & Chainsword following the annual report being released

1. As you can see it's a pretty big decrease despite all the cost cutting they're doing. At least they are still profitable. Let's all support the hobby guys! GW are the reason behind our passion!

2. Tough year, but one focused on reorganization. I'd imagine once they smooth everything out, everything will flow easier.

Enjoy your "I told you so 20 years ago" circle jerk. I think it's great that Kirby is stepping down as he is clearly a clown, but GW is a long way away from folding. Worst case scenario this valuable and lucrative IP gets sold, but more likely a new CEO comes in and puts the company back on track.

What's really disappointing is the amount of people on this forum who seem to genuinely want GW to collapse, despite the fantastic worldwide gaming community that it has played a fundamental part in creating. You may have chosen a competitor, but they only exist because of GW. If you want to know what 40k is all about, check out some of the brilliantly painted and converted armies from the recent BAO. Those armies exist because 40K, and GW, exist.

I want GW to fail if they continue to alienate me as a consumer.

I want them to succeed if they change and provide a product worth its price and convince me to spend my money on them again.

Until that point, I'll sit back and watch their spiral downwards.

I don't owe GW a thing, nor does it deserve anything from me. Regardless of their history, they don't seem intent on moving forward with the times, and they'll be left in the past as a result.

But enjoy your "GW is amazing and we should love and support them" circle jerk.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
First two responses from The Bolter & Chainsword following the annual report being released

1. As you can see it's a pretty big decrease despite all the cost cutting they're doing. At least they are still profitable. Let's all support the hobby guys! GW are the reason behind our passion!

2. Tough year, but one focused on reorganization. I'd imagine once they smooth everything out, everything will flow easier.

Enjoy your "I told you so 20 years ago" circle jerk. I think it's great that Kirby is stepping down as he is clearly a clown, but GW is a long way away from folding. Worst case scenario this valuable and lucrative IP gets sold, but more likely a new CEO comes in and puts the company back on track.

What's really disappointing is the amount of people on this forum who seem to genuinely want GW to collapse, despite the fantastic worldwide gaming community that it has played a fundamental part in creating. You may have chosen a competitor, but they only exist because of GW. If you want to know what 40k is all about, check out some of the brilliantly painted and converted armies from the recent BAO. Those armies exist because 40K, and GW, exist.

Just a note, because you're UK based and may not know this. In many countries GW is barely a blip in the gaming community. My state just got their first GW store 2 years ago, before that it was a 4 hour drive across state lines. GW can die a horrid death and I'll still be playing games, just not GW games. The tabletop wargaming hobby is both older and larger than GW ever dreamt of being and it's sad that people like you are incapable of realizing that you're missing out on some great fun.

 Azreal13 wrote:


Running the business in a manner designed to harm it's performance and reduce it's share price for his own ends is very much illegal.

Proving intent over incompetence however, would be a very different, and difficult, thing.

It isn't illegal in America. The trick is to inflate the company first, and leave before it comes down.

Tom Kirby doesn't look like that sort of CEO. Mark Wells, on the other hand, may be responsible for putting him in a terrible spot and bailing before it fell apart.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
First two responses from The Bolter & Chainsword following the annual report being released

1. As you can see it's a pretty big decrease despite all the cost cutting they're doing. At least they are still profitable. Let's all support the hobby guys! GW are the reason behind our passion!

2. Tough year, but one focused on reorganization. I'd imagine once they smooth everything out, everything will flow easier.

Enjoy your "I told you so 20 years ago" circle jerk. I think it's great that Kirby is stepping down as he is clearly a clown, but GW is a long way away from folding. Worst case scenario this valuable and lucrative IP gets sold, but more likely a new CEO comes in and puts the company back on track.

What's really disappointing is the amount of people on this forum who seem to genuinely want GW to collapse, despite the fantastic worldwide gaming community that it has played a fundamental part in creating. You may have chosen a competitor, but they only exist because of GW. If you want to know what 40k is all about, check out some of the brilliantly painted and converted armies from the recent BAO. Those armies exist because 40K, and GW, exist.

I disagree, I think the worst case scenario could be far worse than that. That GW stays around longer than expected with more and more people leave the game for a variety of reasons, and the game begins to fall to obscurity. And when GW does eventually shutdown there will not be enough interest in the IP to justify the high price GW will undoubtedly put on it.

 agnosto wrote:

Just a note, because you're UK based and may not know this. In many countries GW is barely a blip in the gaming community. My state just got their first GW store 2 years ago, before that it was a 4 hour drive across state lines. GW can die a horrid death and I'll still be playing games, just not GW games. The tabletop wargaming hobby is both older and larger than GW ever dreamt of being and it's sad that people like you are incapable of realizing that you're missing out on some great fun.

Just a note, as you're US based and therefore often make sweeping generalisations text removed. We can find a better way to phrase this please. Reds8n , I play other games than 40k. However I would much rather prefer that GW and the amazing background that it has created stays with us for as long as possible. Despite the issues I have with the direction the company has taken at times, it has played a huge part in both my childhood and adult life. Please cite the extensive, worldwide tabletop wargaming community that existed before GW, as I would be very interested to know what I was missing out on.

Read the B&C thread and was amazed. Some people are saying the drop in profit was due to restructuring, and yet ignore the drop in revenue. They also go on to claim that 'X' sold well (Knights in particular), but if they truly sold well, wouldn't there have been an improvement in revenue, rather than a decline?

Either way, I'm amazed that people go out of their way to defend a corporation that very clearly doesn't care about its consumers.

Plus, people continue to ignore the details and claim that people will complain no matter what they do. They point to things like an accelerated release schedule, yet ignore the drop in quality and rise in prices that accompanied these changes.

Eh, I'm happy paying for 3rd party models for use in 40k and other games, as well playing other games entirely from companies that engage with their customers and produce rules that feel like effort was applied.

It's hard to put a company that doesn't do market research (and proud of that fact!) back on track. They're throwing things on the wall and see what sticks instead of, you know, asking their customers what they fething want.

It's a fething joke. I want them to succeed and all but it's getting difficult while they're making stupid decisions.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

Just a note, because you're UK based and may not know this. In many countries GW is barely a blip in the gaming community. My state just got their first GW store 2 years ago, before that it was a 4 hour drive across state lines. GW can die a horrid death and I'll still be playing games, just not GW games. The tabletop wargaming hobby is both older and larger than GW ever dreamt of being and it's sad that people like you are incapable of realizing that you're missing out on some great fun.

Just a note, as you're US based and therefore often make sweeping generalisations , I play other games than 40k. However I would much rather prefer that GW and the amazing background that it has created stays with us for as long as possible. Despite the issues I have with the direction the company has taken at times, it has played a huge part in both my childhood and adult life. Please cite the extensive, worldwide tabletop wargaming community that existed before GW, as I would be very interested to know what I was missing out on.

The Society of Ancients.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I find it very odd that an annual report comes out that is basically very negative and the CEO sounds like a raging alcoholic, yet no one dumps their stock.

The zero dividend in January crashed the stock. Perhaps the announcement of the June dividend (even if it's only 1/3 of the previous dividend) has brought back some of the people that left in January.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

Just a note, because you're UK based and may not know this. In many countries GW is barely a blip in the gaming community. My state just got their first GW store 2 years ago, before that it was a 4 hour drive across state lines. GW can die a horrid death and I'll still be playing games, just not GW games. The tabletop wargaming hobby is both older and larger than GW ever dreamt of being and it's sad that people like you are incapable of realizing that you're missing out on some great fun.

Just a note, as you're US based and therefore often make sweeping generalisations , I play other games than 40k. However I would much rather prefer that GW and the amazing background that it has created stays with us for as long as possible. Despite the issues I have with the direction the company has taken at times, it has played a huge part in both my childhood and adult life. Please cite the extensive, worldwide tabletop wargaming community that existed before GW, as I would be very interested to know what I was missing out on.

Ancients in general.
Historical in general.
There were definitely some sci-fi games out before GW was relevant, but I'm not sure if they were "worldwide".

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

Just a note, because you're UK based and may not know this. In many countries GW is barely a blip in the gaming community. My state just got their first GW store 2 years ago, before that it was a 4 hour drive across state lines. GW can die a horrid death and I'll still be playing games, just not GW games. The tabletop wargaming hobby is both older and larger than GW ever dreamt of being and it's sad that people like you are incapable of realizing that you're missing out on some great fun.

Just a note, as you're US based and therefore often make sweeping generalisations , I play other games than 40k. However I would much rather prefer that GW and the amazing background that it has created stays with us for as long as possible. Despite the issues I have with the direction the company has taken at times, it has played a huge part in both my childhood and adult life. Please cite the extensive, worldwide tabletop wargaming community that existed before GW, as I would be very interested to know what I was missing out on.

If GW collapses, none of the stuff they have already created will go anywhere. Lexicanum won't suddenly vanish from the Internet, your rulebooks and codices won't undergo spontaneous combustion.

The only thing that would happen is that the community would suddenly be able to exert it's own influence and control on that universe, without fears of GWs legal team coming to kick their websites metaphorical door in.

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Any links? I think I want to have some nightmares.

 Baragash wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Or maybe we just have a 'toxic' community who seek to inflate any negativity? The last person in the B&C thread, who suggests that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, is an accountant specialising in "investment plans for large assets". Obviously he could just be saying that and works in the freezer section in Iceland, but, then again, so could you. I find it very interesting that a comparable thread on another 40k website has such a different spin on things.

 Baragash wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Indeed.

Just checked out BOLS (I think for the first time ever, hate the forum layout/colour/design) and was blown away by the level of defense for GW. Anything that isn't praise or stating in how good of a state they're in seems to be drowned out.

Then again, I guess apologists might claim Dakka is filled with a lot of so called haters, but hey, to each their own.

I just don't get how people can support GW after a constant string of price hikes (seriously, people are claiming how GW is doing the right thing by not raising prices), releasing increasingly more expensive kits, and pumping out shoddy rules with arguably worse and less fluff. All at an increased price premium.

But I'm just bitter they haven't gone after my wallet with a BFG reboot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:


Or maybe we just have a 'toxic' community who seek to inflate any negativity? The last person in the B&C thread, who suggests that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, is an accountant specialising in "investment plans for large assets". Obviously he could just be saying that and works in the freezer section in Iceland, but, then again, so could you. I find it very interesting that a comparable thread on another 40k website has such a different spin on things.

And we have business experts here who have very succinctly pointed out the issues with GW.

Plus, if you're going to call a community toxic, I'd go back and check your own posts first.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Or maybe we just have a 'toxic' community who seek to inflate any negativity? The last person in the B&C thread, who suggests that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, is an accountant specialising in "investment plans for large assets". Obviously he could just be saying that and works in the freezer section in Iceland, but, then again, so could you. I find it very interesting that a comparable thread on another 40k website has such a different spin on things.

That's ok, I'm an accountant specialising in UK high street retailers

(That's not sarcasm based on your Iceland comment, that's what I've spent most of the last 11 years doing).

People smarter than most of us have read the financials and predicted doom - I mean like Wayshuba, the dude from MasterMinis/Painting Buddha (the ex-CIO of Aldi) and others (Reinholt on Warseer springs to mind) who actually know business and can read between the lines; I'd trust these people's opinions more than random armchair executives spouting crap like that birdbrain on BOLS who keeps pitching the "Folks have been talking doom for 20 years, always saying it will be next year" gak.

But yes, the defense is amazing especially on BOLS and I'm surprised about BnC as those guys seem pretty smart and not at all GWombies.

Things are not good, not at all. There's way too much wrong.

On a serious note though, what arguments can be used to support any idea that GW are fine and will be fine a decade from now?

The only two positive notes I can see currently are that they are still profitable, and have cash on hand with no significant debt.

However the moment the revenue shrinks, both of those things shrink as well.

Doesn't matter how much you have in assets if no one is buying what you're making. And it certainly seems like fewer and fewer people are buying.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Or maybe we just have a 'toxic' community who seek to inflate any negativity? The last person in the B&C thread, who suggests that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, is an accountant specialising in "investment plans for large assets". Obviously he could just be saying that and works in the freezer section in Iceland, but, then again, so could you. I find it very interesting that a comparable thread on another 40k website has such a different spin on things.

I find it interesting too. Especially when the company in question out and out states that that what the customers and potential customers want is useless information and that they don't inquire or concern themselves with what those customers desire.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Read the B&C thread and was amazed.

If you want to unlearn economics, business or accounting, the quickest solution is to read BoLS, B&C or the Warhammer Forum after a GW report is released. Sometimes I go to sleep cuddling my textbooks so I don't have bad dreams after reading a topic there.

Or maybe we just have a 'toxic' community who seek to inflate any negativity? The last person in the B&C thread, who suggests that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, is an accountant specialising in "investment plans for large assets". Obviously he could just be saying that and works in the freezer section in Iceland, but, then again, so could you. I find it very interesting that a comparable thread on another 40k website has such a different spin on things.

This isn't a 40K website.

You're not even in the 40K section.

 heartserenade wrote:
Any links? I think I want to have some nightmares.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294373-bols-have-revealed-the-annual-profit-report-of-gw/