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 Baragash wrote:


Every time I think about the "objects of jewel-like wonder" I can't help but imagine TK all Gollum-like in the Lenton basement with a Finecast Calgar on his palm whispering "my precioussssssssssssss...."

Definitely has potential to be a fun photochop: Gollum with Kirby's head holding a GW figure...

As far as Codex churning goes...I'm probably going to just ignore it and stick with 6th Ed.

Haven't played 40K in years though still paint & convert on occasion in anticipation of maybe getting back into the game one day.

I have the 6th Ed Space Marine Codex, but have not yet bothered to get the 6th Ed rulebook. I hate the new changes I've been hearing about with 7th Ed, so will probably just get a cheap 6th Ed rulebook off ebay and use that when I play at my club, with 6th Ed being the last edition of 40K I will ever play.

My club is full of veterans of older editions who probably don't care for keeping up to date with GW's garbage so I doubt refusing to upgrade to 7th Ed will affect me very much.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
So are we thinking that the release of this Grey Knight codex demonstrates GW in its death throes? Not a single new kit for no good reason. They could have given us a bike unit or something.
It's strange as I imagine Grey Knights were one of the more popular armies of the last few years.

Grey Knights suddenly became very popular when their previous codex was released because it was very strong and a whole load of new models came out at the same time.
It is a bit odd that GW would bother to release a new codex without models if they see themselves as a model selling company. However I think part of their strategy is to make a lot of money from the books too.

I can understand they do not want to spend money on expensive "assets" like new molds for models and printed works are easy enough to churn out.
If I was in their mindset <shudder> I would produce an add-on sprue(s) much like the BT kit so that the old models would be bought plus the "upgrade" with the latest hotness in it specified by the new codex.

Say we release the new Grey Knight Codex.
It shows some new kit... the "daemon reaper scythe"(tm) which does incredible "D" weapon damage...
There are only two in the upgrade box and must be fielded in a team of at least 6.
It is so heavy it must be wielded by a terminator (moar money!).
But wait, there is more! The Purifiers can channel their flames through the "holy flame focus"(tm) which allows them to use their power at range and on overwatch.
The number of hits are determined by the number of focus added to the group (3 hits per model), you guessed it: only 1 per upgrade pack.

Anyway, I can only channel so much silliness.
Adding well thought out extra fancy bits with some base decorations and maybe some vehicle upgrade pieces may give some bang for the buck and sell some more old models as well.

Wait, I had a much worse thought, use the existing model sprues, drop in the one fancy extra sprue and sell as a complete kit so the ONLY way you can get it is with this "premium" package.

You can always spin-off the sprue as a separate piece later.

Anyway, they kinda do this sort of thing anyway like the multi-kit wonder of the Baneblade.

You guys are overthinking it. They're releasing a new Grey Knights codex because the last one made them a lot of money, so they assume the next one will make them a lot of money.

They have literally no other notion of what to do next, other than, "well this worked before, so it should work again!"

THAT, or maybe somebody actually got on the Internet, read about all the Ward rage, and now they're systematically undoing all the stuff he did after letting him go. However, I seriously doubt that's the case, as it would not match their self-confessed strategy of ignoring market demands.

Overthinking it, you may just be right.
Made good money on GK codex before...
All they have to do is:

AGAIN!!!

intresting even though kirby claims his objects of wonder, in an australian court they make the claim that they not that special and they are interchangable with this little lot:
HeroClix, Warmachine, Hordes, Flames of War, Ticket to Ride, Carcassone, Dominion, Battlecry, Diplomacy, Risk, model trains, model scenery, radio controlled vehicles, Dungeons & Dragons, Magic: The Gathering, Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, StarCraft, The Elder Scrolls (series) and Fallout (series).
GW is trying to ban online sales down there.
here is a link to the article explaining what they are up to
http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/games-workshop-secretly-moves-to-cut-off-australian-online-retailers/

Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

 Wolfstan wrote:
Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

By and large, that's already happening. While all regions did poorly this past year, the numbers from Australia are particularly dismal.

What's the best course of action when people aren't buying? Make sure your product is sold at less places and a higher price of course! Is it just me or is GW doubling down on all the strategies that put them in this position in the first place?

Toofast wrote:
What's the best course of action when people aren't buying? Make sure your product is sold at less places and a higher price of course! Is it just me or is GW doubling down on all the strategies that put them in this position in the first place?

Remember, without any kind of market research, they have no idea what put them in that position.

At the main FLGS in my area though, 40k is still swinging, people seem okay with it and oblivious to GW's problems. They have a RTT coming up, people are excited for the new releases, people are buying things, etc. Boggles the mind; I feel like I'm in a time warp.

 wildphilldude wrote:
intresting even though kirby claims his objects of wonder, in an australian court they make the claim that they not that special and they are interchangable with this little lot:
HeroClix, Warmachine, Hordes, Flames of War, Ticket to Ride, Carcassone, Dominion, Battlecry, Diplomacy, Risk, model trains, model scenery, radio controlled vehicles, Dungeons & Dragons, Magic: The Gathering, Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, StarCraft, The Elder Scrolls (series) and Fallout (series).
GW is trying to ban online sales down there.
here is a link to the article explaining what they are up to
http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/games-workshop-secretly-moves-to-cut-off-australian-online-retailers/

I almost didn't read that article because I already knew this was happening but wow. The people being effected by this didn't have a lot to say but even their silence says a lot.

Honestly if this goes through (and with any luck it won't, I know I plan to email Kirbys ramble to the address in that article and point out GW doesn't do market research so when they say WoW is competition they have no way of knowing that) then I think it'll be one of the last nails in GW AUs coffin. Other game systems already seem to have passed 40k by a fair margin in popularity in the online stores that carry more than just GW products, I doubt they will be effected, and people will not flock back to GW direct to get their plastic crack fix like GW seems to think.

WayneTheGame wrote:

Toofast wrote:
What's the best course of action when people aren't buying? Make sure your product is sold at less places and a higher price of course! Is it just me or is GW doubling down on all the strategies that put them in this position in the first place?

Remember, without any kind of market research, they have no idea what put them in that position.

At the main FLGS in my area though, 40k is still swinging, people seem okay with it and oblivious to GW's problems. They have a RTT coming up, people are excited for the new releases, people are buying things, etc. Boggles the mind; I feel like I'm in a time warp.

My area is the same way. Positive reaction to the SW releases and codex, constantly growing player base, everyone buying the majority of their stuff at the local GW. However, after reading the last 2 financial reports, we are in the vast minority. A few cities experiencing growth aren't going to make up for all of Australia switching to another system when GW kills their only way to get things for less than organs cost on the black market.

 Medium of Death wrote:
So are we thinking that the release of this Grey Knight codex demonstrates GW in its death throes? Not a single new kit for no good reason. They could have given us a bike unit or something.

It's strange as I imagine Grey Knights were one of the more popular armies of the last few years.

Not quite. This would have been started several months back, long before Kirby tried to smooth-talk his way out of the reality of GW's current situation.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

There's no point not stocking it, as there's people who still want to buy it. Denying yourself a sale out of spite doesn't make sense as a business.

But I've noticed a supreme lack of promotion of their products. Different stores promote different games to different extents because they have unique customer bases, but aside from a few posted hanging up, not much is done these days to promote GW's products.

We don't want anyone selling our product! If we can't sell our product, we don't want anyone else not selling our product either!

We want to be the only ones people don't buy from!

 -Loki- wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

There's no point not stocking it, as there's people who still want to buy it. Denying yourself a sale out of spite doesn't make sense as a business.

But I've noticed a supreme lack of promotion of their products. Different stores promote different games to different extents because they have unique customer bases, but aside from a few posted hanging up, not much is done these days to promote GW's products.

Uhm... there is an excellent reason not to stock it - money is tied up in the product.

It is much better to invest in stock that you are more likely to sell than in stock that will only gather dust.

And GW insists on a $4,000 stock list here in the States - it is likely similar in Oz.

$4,000 is a lot to have tied up in stock that is unlikely to sell through.

It is not spite, it is practicality.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

There's no point not stocking it, as there's people who still want to buy it. Denying yourself a sale out of spite doesn't make sense as a business.

But I've noticed a supreme lack of promotion of their products. Different stores promote different games to different extents because they have unique customer bases, but aside from a few posted hanging up, not much is done these days to promote GW's products.

Uhm... there is an excellent reason not to stock it - money is tied up in the product.

It is much better to invest in stock that you are more likely to sell than in stock that will only gather dust.

It does sell, that's why it's stocked. Not stocking it is denying themselves a customer who will go elsewhere. It's just not as promoted anymore. If someone wants to buy it, great, it's money. But effort in trying to get new customers goes to other systems, in my experience.

 -Loki- wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
Isn't it about time Oz stores told GW to shove it? If all the Indies stopped selling GW products and concentrated on another systems wouldn't that send GW the middle finger and introduce gamers to another system?

There's no point not stocking it, as there's people who still want to buy it. Denying yourself a sale out of spite doesn't make sense as a business.

But I've noticed a supreme lack of promotion of their products. Different stores promote different games to different extents because they have unique customer bases, but aside from a few posted hanging up, not much is done these days to promote GW's products.

Uhm... there is an excellent reason not to stock it - money is tied up in the product.

It is much better to invest in stock that you are more likely to sell than in stock that will only gather dust.

It does sell, that's why it's stocked. Not stocking it is denying themselves a customer who will go elsewhere. It's just not as promoted anymore. If someone wants to buy it, great, it's money. But effort in trying to get new customers goes to other systems, in my experience.

The question is 'Does it sell $4,000 worth in the same amount of time as $4,000 used to buy other product' - and remember, we are talking Oz here...

*Shakes Magic 8 Ball*
SIGNS POINT TO NO

If $4,000 invested in Dystopian Wars sells at 7 times the rate of WH40K then you are better off buying Dystopian Wars product with that $4,000.

Even if you may sell the occasional box o' marines it is a less effective investment.

And the only way that GW will get that message is if people stop buying their overpriced crap!

The Auld Grump - who has indeed stopped buying their overpriced crap.

*EDIT* And, yes, stores do count as people in this instance... and given the price gouging and underhanded tactics being used by GW? Stores in Oz have more reasons not to carry GW than to carry them.

I was a bit rushed when I typed up my post so a little bit more to add.

What is the situation with GW stores in Oz, are they down sizing them like in the UK? If so that's an area of leverage as well. If they aren't able to run more than one table then the Indies are taking up the slack. So my thought is this, and I know it could be a naive thought, but if the Indies got together and the majority agreed to wind down their stock and agreed on promoting another system, would this work?

I know a lot of "GW" gamer's stick with the hobby because they have invested in it or that they are scared of not getting games, but if there is a guarantee of big support for another similar system would that help?

 Wolfstan wrote:
What is the situation with GW stores in Oz...

You ever see a film called "The Never Ending Story"? Well in that film there was a force called the "Nothing". That's pretty much the state of GW stores in Oz. The store is there, and then it just isn't.

GW have a cheek talking about the 'store experience' when they are cutting back to one man stores than only have a table for demo games. There is no experience to be had. The 'experience' consists of a cramped shop with one person aggressively trying to push product.

GW see independents as an evil to tolerate as they don't have blanket coverage with physical stores, they don't want to supply to independent stores at all. Which is funny, because most independents see GW as an evil to tolerate in order to run a game store. I don't know any independent who enjoys working with GW, they are only stocked because they are very popular. If they stop being popular traders can't wait to drop them.

It might be already happening, albeit slowly/subtly.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
What is the situation with GW stores in Oz...

You ever see a film called "The Never Ending Story"? Well in that film there was a force called the "Nothing". That's pretty much the state of GW stores in Oz. The store is there, and then it just isn't.

"These look like big, strong hands. . .don't they?" rumbled the Australian gaming community sadly.

Funny the talk of FLGS and the GW relationship.
I have a "tale of two stores".

In my town the store rage-quit and told GW to stuff-it after pushing a lot of product on them a year later they still could not sell.
Played games with payment / purchasing terms, short shipments, reviewing his store to ensure terms are being met, he literally threw them out of his store when they started telling him what he "should" be doing.
Now he is laughing because GW is trying to weasel their way back in, they are giving him lots of free stuff and purchasing terms are less severe.
He has decided to string them along and see how far it goes and if they give him any lip, slam the door on them again.
He spends the time to hold all kinds of gaming nights, coordinates players on his web page to meet and play, Friday night MTG brings in some 40-50 people at least.
So GW seems to have a love-hate relationship at least with this guy (like many others I suspect).

The other store in the area.
Near two universities and a College.
They have an online store presence and are like a warehouse.
Tabletop games make up about 1/8th their space which is still bigger than some stores, so they have a fair bit of diversity.
For some reason, they consistently cost substantially less than anyone else (as much as 30%!!) on GW stuff.
They even got strange deals where the Imperial Knights came in generic GW boxes than the new fancy cardboard ones but was substantially less.
I witnessed a discussion they had with a GW rep who was telling them what product they "could not have" on a new codex launch.
The store owner pointed to the tabletop area and said "If you cannot fill the space I have allocated to your product, I will find someone who can, end of discussion.".
He got what he wanted.
No GW stores in the area, no other hobby shop for some 20km at least, this guy has scary fast stock turns so can pretty much dictate what he wants.
Even the X-wing shortages were little issue, they always seemed to have something on-hand.

GW cannot compete with either of these FLGS for bodies coming into the door and probably drives them insane with all the other competing product they have on the shelf.
I think they are beginning to understand just how easily their product could be removed from their shelves and the store would barely notice a change in revenue (especially since GW product cannot be listed on the on-line store).

This is only a local specific couple of cases but we are not all that unique here, GW in it's desire to cut out the middle man does not seem to recognize that others can sell their product better than they can. As we all like pointing out (since it seems so insane) GW does not do any market research so they would have no idea what FLGS do for them.

When GW makes it harder and more expensive for independent shops to stock GW games, then obviously there comes a point where the owner will throw up his hands and stop carrying GW, and fill the shelf space with something that is easier to deal with.

Clearly GW think this will force players to buy the stuff from GW directly instead, thus increasing profits. However it is likely also to reduce sales by diminishing the amount of user exposure to GW products.

Once again my mind is led to conclude that GW strategy is for users to continue to buy GW stuff because GW.

 Talizvar wrote:
In my town the store rage-quit and told GW to stuff-it after pushing a lot of product on them a year later they still could not sell.
Played games with payment / purchasing terms, short shipments, reviewing his store to ensure terms are being met, he literally threw them out of his store when they started telling him what he "should" be doing.
Now he is laughing because GW is trying to weasel their way back in, they are giving him lots of free stuff and purchasing terms are less severe.
He has decided to string them along and see how far it goes and if they give him any lip, slam the door on them again.
He spends the time to hold all kinds of gaming nights, coordinates players on his web page to meet and play, Friday night MTG brings in some 40-50 people at least.
So GW seems to have a love-hate relationship at least with this guy (like many others I suspect).

We had the same thing happen at the FLGS where I play MtG. GW wanted back in after years of being out and basically gave the store a not insignificant amount of product for free. The store tried to order a couple of things for me, which turned out to be GW only. Several months later, after moving virtually no product, the store put the stuff on sale and got rid of it all because they needed shelf space for X-wing and Star Trek table top games.

I think I have been exposed to GW product for so long I forget some fundamental issues with GW's method of marketing.

How the heck do they get new customers / players involved in their product?

How will the average human being even be exposed to them never mind be inspired to buy?

1) FLGS seem to be the logical physical gateway for introduction since they are the go to for casual recreation purchases.
We know where that is headed. They have the single man stores out of the way for less expensive property, foot traffic is basically out then.

2) Google: searched "games" they have it in their name right? Hit the 20th page and gave up, GW not found.
2a) Searched "miniatures" saw RAFM quickly enough, gave up at 20th page... still no GW.
2b) Searched "Space Marine" immediate hit! no wonder they litigate like crazy on that name even if it was not their original idea for a name.
2c) Searched "Toy Soldiers" let us say that is a rather crowded label.
2d) Searched "Wargames", gave up at 20th page.. no GW (really??).
2e) Searched "Tabletop Wargames", gotta get lucky on this... gave up on 10 pages... should have been there... What the frag??
So the main go-to for casual interest inquiry of Google will not get me a direct link to the Games Workshop web site... something REALLY wrong here.

GW is completely stealth on the internet, you would not have any idea they exist at all if not for the existence of fan sites, hobby sites or FLGS.

When they completely pull from all FLGS and hold no events, what mystical thinking makes them think new customers will find them??

GW recruit through their own hobby centres, through independent shops, and through clubs and associations of veterans.

These are the three key marketing channels they have spent the past few years downgrading, gaking on, and pissing off.

There is also social online media, which GW have addressed by closing their forums, their FaceBook pages, and by turning their web site from a resource centre into a shop.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW recruit through their own hobby centres, through independent shops, and through clubs and associations of veterans.
These are the three key marketing channels they have spent the past few years downgrading, gaking on, and pissing off.
There is also social online media, which GW have addressed by closing their forums, their FaceBook pages, and by turning their web site from a resource centre into a shop.

Your are stating their past / present behavior pretty much as I outlined.
What is shocking to me is what is left?
Veterans, social media, even a simple Google search all add up to "no dice".
When they conclude their plan, unless a customer knows who they are they will cease to exist.
Then, shortly after, they will cease to exist for real if the existing fan-base is not enough to support them (and the VERY occasional foot traffic into a GW store).

 Talizvar wrote:
(and the VERY occasional foot traffic into a GW store).

Sad thing is, they think that by eliminating all other outlets to their games, they are going to increase this, which simply isn't true. You're going to have the same amount of traffic in your stores, but now you're not going to have the revenue from the channels you shut down. I simply don't understand their logic. They're trying to effectively corral people into their stores and this might work if it were 1980, but it's not. Competition is out there and it is feeding off of their bad decisions.