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 Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Aye, you need either of the two upgrades to give him a Daemonbane Force weapon again. The Hammer has Concussive and the Greatsword has Master-Crafted and Specialist Weapon (so you maintain the bonus attack) I believe.

Edit: Oh, Hammers have Specialist Weapon as well, never mind that bit.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.

It is, guy on B&CS confirmed it. Sword and Hammer for NDK are force, so they're still auto take if you want your NDK to one shot other MCs.

These guys are cheap stock but it is looking like there are a lot of hidden costs to make them all purpose.

What are we looking at for a sword swinging shunter with dual HPcanons? ~220ish

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.

Actually I don't think they mentioned anything about that... I know the sword has its own profile now and that it IS a Force weapon and specialist weapon. So you do get that extra attack, The hammer does give Conc and Force. I'd assume we have to pay the points now (its only 10).

EDIT: Dreadknights can take each weapon only ONCE, no dual flamers guy, oh and he gets Sanctuary.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.

Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/

With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.

Hammerhand + Halberd makes them S7. Hammerhand + Hammers makes them S10. It requires 2 powers to go off, but it not all that difficult when both are ML1

Quickjager wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.

Actually I don't think they mentioned anything about that... I know the sword has its own profile now and that it IS a Force weapon and specialist weapon. So you do get that extra attack, The hammer does give Conc and Force. I'd assume we have to pay the points now (its only 10).

EDIT: Dreadknights can take each weapon only ONCE, no dual flamers guy, oh and he gets Sanctuary.

I'd go PT, Sword, HPC and HI on all of them if I played GK.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.

Right, but it does limit some builds that currently are floating around, namely the centstar. This is a good thing IMO.

I still think sinking 3 dice or 25% of your pool on force is plenty fine by me. Most things worth forcing to death again are hard to hit, or getting a great save in the case of bugs from cover. I'd stick with heavy PC and incinerators on the NDK.

I do think regular psilencers are nice on strike though. just look at it as a guy with 2 extra storm bolters. It makes the units total shots increase very efficiently on small scoring units. Though honestly an incinerator is probably best for killing cheap enemy Obsec units.

Good points... The libbies at ML 3 will be a big boon. Don't forget that purifiers in rhinos are still going to be pretty bad-ass if given 2 psilencers as well for top hatch fun AND casting cleansing flame is possible from top hatch too. Maybe that's a better place to put in a few of this specialist weapon? I still think heavy psilencer is subpar to dual heavy incinerators or the more flexible heavy psycannons for your dreadknights.

There will be a bit more than "just codex: Dreadknights", but it won't be far off. I call SS officially dead though... Terminators are where it's at.

Don't forget that interceptors got a bit cheaper too. I fail to see the point in SS.

Do dreadnaughts still have sanctuary as base? Even though they suffered a nerf, I still think they'll be usable with the FoC shift in combination with landing pads and com relays (I wouldn't want to leave home without those now that we rely on Deepstrike as much.

DK gets sanctuary? Sold

One weapon each is still fine, still worth it to dual kit them now with decreases.

But yea Teleporter, Sword, Psycannon, and incinerator seems the best build

But looks like the Greatsword is indeed Str x2 ap 2

So no need for the faq shenanigans

So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?

It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...

 agnosto wrote:
So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?

It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...

Sword and hammer do replace fists.

 agnosto wrote:
So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?

It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...

If the fists no longer have force then I see no way to avoid it. But it is GW, so get ready for YMDA filled with: Does my NDK get s10 from the fists while benefiting from the swords force? threads


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quickjager wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?

It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...

Sword and hammer do replace fists.

OK thank god. Otherwise confusion and arguing would reign.

Both the Hammer and the Greatsword are Sx2 and only replaces 1 fist.

 Redemption wrote:
Both the Hammer and the Greatsword are Sx2 and only replaces 1 fist.

Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.

It's 5 points cheaper and replaces Master-Crafted with Concussive. The Greatsword isn't re-roll everything anymore.

It might be worth it if you are in the "Casting force is too hard boat"

Quickjager wrote:
EDIT: Dreadknights can take each weapon only ONCE, no dual flamers guy, oh and he gets Sanctuary.

Where did you read that?

 Redemption wrote:
It's 5 points cheaper and replaces Master-Crafted with Concussive. The Greatsword isn't re-roll everything anymore.

Yea but concussive is generally useless, I'd rather have the MCraft ability.

 Red Corsair wrote:


Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.

If at 5p vs 10p, it would make perfect sense. Concussive versus Master crafted...

at 35p for HPC, that would make a dualwield HPC with sword and PT clock in at 240? I'm not sure about the HPC cost anymore...

Anyway, with fists, hammer AND greatsword being x2S, what's the point of hammerhand on it again? o.O

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
It's 5 points cheaper and replaces Master-Crafted with Concussive. The Greatsword isn't re-roll everything anymore.

Yea but concussive is generally useless, I'd rather have the MCraft ability.

And thats why he has sanctuary instead of hammerhand, all of the weapons are x2 str now

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
DK gets sanctuary? Sold

One weapon each is still fine, still worth it to dual kit them now with decreases.

But yea Teleporter, Sword, Psycannon, and incinerator seems the best build

But looks like the Greatsword is indeed Str x2 ap 2

So no need for the faq shenanigans

Sanctuary makes the DK much more survivable.
I'll take my standard loadout with heavy incinerator and teleporter. Cheap and very solid.
Two DK's seem to become mandatory in any GK force.

According to a thread on /tg/ guy with the book is posting statlines.

Purifiers are ML 2

Dreadknights are only 4 wounds still.

 Elmir wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.

If at 5p vs 10p, it would make perfect sense. Concussive versus Master crafted...

at 35p for HPC, that would make a dualwield HPC with sword and PT clock in at 240? I'm not sure about the HPC cost anymore...

Anyway, with fists, hammer AND greatsword being x2S, what's the point of hammerhand on it again? o.O

Well someone said dual wielding isn't possible so we will see, however 240 for a 12" moving MC that has 12 s7 rending shots? Totally worth it IMO. Thats the firepower of 3....3!!!! riflemen who lack rending. Try getting 3 of those for 240. Oh and he is no chump in HtH like the rifleman dreads.

It would have been nice to have a reason to take purgation squads... If they had scout, they'd be nearly useful. Kind of a shame the only real HS choice is DKs.

Yeah, considering I can give my guy a H. Incinerator, Sword, Heavy Psycannon, and PT for right around the cost of my current DK with Teleporter and H. Incinerator I'm a happy camper.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
It's 5 points cheaper and replaces Master-Crafted with Concussive. The Greatsword isn't re-roll everything anymore.

Yea but concussive is generally useless, I'd rather have the MCraft ability.

And thats why he has sanctuary instead of hammerhand, all of the weapons are x2 str now

Which makes the gatling psilencer worse too btw. Unless your going to try convincing me that you will cast both those powers regularly without robbing your army. IDK, starting to seem more and more evident they want people using NDK's. They got way cheaper, and out perform dreads in every way possible. Hurray for auto takes. Did Pugators seriously get nothing?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Elmir wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.

If at 5p vs 10p, it would make perfect sense. Concussive versus Master crafted...

at 35p for HPC, that would make a dualwield HPC with sword and PT clock in at 240? I'm not sure about the HPC cost anymore...

Anyway, with fists, hammer AND greatsword being x2S, what's the point of hammerhand on it again? o.O

Well someone said dual wielding isn't possible so we will see, however 240 for a 12" moving MC that has 12 s7 rending shots? Totally worth it IMO. Thats the firepower of 3....3!!!! riflemen who lack rending. Try getting 3 of those for 240. Oh and he is no chump in HtH like the rifleman dreads.

Or can not get knocked out or disabled on the first wound (except for force)

I looks like I might be able to bring my Grey Knight force under 2k
Librarian
Paladin Squad
Purifier Squad
Terminators
Strike Squad
Interceptors
Dread Knight

 agnosto wrote:
It would have been nice to have a reason to take purgation squads... If they had scout, they'd be nearly useful. Kind of a shame the only real HS choice is DKs.

^This


GK are just becoming more like every other army with MC's. Spam as many as you can.

Too bad hammerhand doesn't affect shooting... Then I wouldn't gripe about losing psybolt ammo.

Purgators got...night vision i believe..

But no they're still the same, 4 can take special weapons per 5 man.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Purgators got...night vision i believe..

But no they're still the same, 4 can take special weapons per 5 man.

lol with a 24" range gun. woo!! Don't do anything crazy now!