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If there's one thing that a lot of us can agree on, it's that the lore / canon in 40k is written very loosely. What if, the works of CS Goto, Matt Ward, and all those writers are deliberately done so that there simply ARE inconsistencies or moments of hard-to-believe craziness? I know that's probably NOT the case, but part of some intellectual excersizes includes taking what you read/see on a screen and creating your own interpretations of how it works in-universe.

Part of what makes directors such as: Stanley Kubrick, Ridley Scott, & Alfred Hitchcock great is that most everything seen on the screen is intentionally there to evoke a reaction/emotion/train of thought in order to think more deeply about a piece of fiction.

I'll start:

It's wildly considered unbelievable that the Draigo would be able to walk through the warp, defeating all manners of daemon and other horrors, while remaining as "pure" as he is. Perhaps his struggle is a modern re-interpretation of The Odyssey, wth Odysseus besting every challenge put before him in his 10 year journey home. Both Draigo and Odysseus were heroes of war and considered the "best" examples of their kind. Both Draigo and Odysseus, when out in the ocean (and the warp has often been referred to as a "sea" of sorts) are subjected to the wills and whims of Gods.

Are there any other pieces of 40k fluff that we can look at from a different angle?

I think there's a bit of that too it, I also think sometimes a lot of those more silly things have the potential to be re-written to keep much of the same facts, but make it considerably more intreasting. continuing with Dragio for example, I think the biggest mistake is telling us too much about him. by keeping vague about his fate they'd be able to make him less silly and give him a very intreasting aura. I'd have made his exact fate after M'kar "offically unknown, but it is said when the need to greatest, Kaldor Dragio appers on the field. turning the tide against the agents of the great enemy"

BrianDavion wrote:
I think there's a bit of that too it, I also think sometimes a lot of those more silly things have the potential to be re-written to keep much of the same facts, but make it considerably more intreasting. continuing with Dragio for example, I think the biggest mistake is telling us too much about him. by keeping vague about his fate they'd be able to make him less silly and give him a very intreasting aura. I'd have made his exact fate after M'kar "offically unknown, but it is said when the need to greatest, Kaldor Dragio appers on the field. turning the tide against the agents of the great enemy"

That honestly sounds like a Primarch story, except here there is a model and rules in 40k. Instead of over informing, I think they actually underinform. If they wrote novels about his time in the warp, they could very easily make his time in the warp seem much more like an Odyssey.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think there's a bit of that too it, I also think sometimes a lot of those more silly things have the potential to be re-written to keep much of the same facts, but make it considerably more intreasting. continuing with Dragio for example, I think the biggest mistake is telling us too much about him. by keeping vague about his fate they'd be able to make him less silly and give him a very intreasting aura. I'd have made his exact fate after M'kar "offically unknown, but it is said when the need to greatest, Kaldor Dragio appers on the field. turning the tide against the agents of the great enemy"

I totally agree. Mystery allows the imagination to run wild. It's why almost every mystery/suspense story is really intriguing right up until they reveal the monster or the killer.

I think it'd be a great choice to try writing more along the lines myths of The Epic of Gilgamesh or Beowulf. The problem is when they start explaining all of Horus' feelings or what this primarch is thinking, they should be more distant, stoic figures that play important parts but with unclear motivations.

On a side note, this is also kinda why I don't like the Grey Knights, Inquisition, and Daemons as full blown factions. I think they're way more interesting when they're cloaked in shadow with small hints of their existence.

 troa wrote:


That honestly sounds like a Primarch story, except here there is a model and rules in 40k. Instead of over informing, I think they actually underinform. If they wrote novels about his time in the warp, they could very easily make his time in the warp seem much more like an Odyssey.

I'd tend to agree here. There are times were leaving out information works better for world-building ("Clone Wars" for pre-prequel Star Wars, or "Tannhauser Gate" for Bladerunner)

But, there are times where adding more information would help. In this case, the canon wording that Draigo is "pure" despite his experiences in the warp would benefit from some better explainations.

Otherwise, we're mostly stuck with: "Because he's that awesome?" as an explaination, and that's usually not the best way forward.

If you are wanting more of Draigo especially from Draigo's perspective the audio drama from Black Library Mortarion's Heart does exactly what you are talking about here. It is really well done and humanizes Draigo a great deal as well as how he became Supreme Grand Master, it wasn't something he wanted to do.

Also, they state in the fluff that Draigo isn't really just walking through the warp like he owns the place. The warp itself is shaped by emotions and will, what Draigo is really doing is basically creating his own bubble of reality which is how he can go through the gardens of Nurgle, chomp them to pieces, leave and it all grows right back until he decides to come back. All this states is that Draigo is a particularly powerful psychic able to properly shield and mold the warp. This is never said directly, but is something between the lines and hinted to.

As the Grey Knights having their own codex, there is a reason why they make it so you have a small model count, to keep the forces small and give it that feel. I am only saying this because I wish to defend my chosen army but still, the Grey Knights having their own codex doesn't take away from them and they themselves don't operate that way, the Inquisition does, they just follow orders. The Emperor's Gift I think stands to be the best evidence of why the Grey Knights deserve their codex.

OT, Envion- Amazing quotes, Both of them I may snip for future use :3

back on topic- I agree, a book with draigo's journeys in the warp would be nice, but would have to be handled VERY CAREFULLY. As, at that point, they are trying to describe the indescribable.

Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

Actions like that are core to defining both the Gothic Grim-Dark setting as well as the personality of the IoM.

One of the beauties of WH40K is its Ying-Yang nature, how the IoM is mostly good with some bad and Chaos is mostly bad with some good.

 Dshrike wrote:
Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

It is possibly that is was desperate move by the Grey Knights of that squad but for the most part as shown in all the other fluff outside the codex, the Grey Knights have a high sense of honor that rivals the Imperial Fists so that piece of fluff highly jives with who they are as a chapter and it would have to have been the last option to complete the job. That is why a lot of GK players don't like it and largely ignore it even more so than Draigo. Without better context of the situation, we don't know fully how that decision was made and people will largely hate it until that comes to light.

 Dshrike wrote:
Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

To be honest, I've never seen the issue with this piece of background. It captures the 'lesser of evils' aspect of the Knights and also highlights the severity of their role that they have to go to such lengths. It shows that maybe, the GK aren't as well versed as they believe. One thing I hear a lot is that it makes little sense that blood would defend against the blood god, but maybe that's the point. Even when fighting to remain pure, the Knights, like the rest of the Imperium, are in a way a serving chaos by spilling that blood.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Dshrike wrote:
Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

To be honest, I've never seen the issue with this piece of background. It captures the 'lesser of evils' aspect of the Knights and also highlights the severity of their role that they have to go to such lengths. It shows that maybe, the GK aren't as well versed as they believe. One thing I hear a lot is that it makes little sense that blood would defend against the blood god, but maybe that's the point. Even when fighting to remain pure, the Knights, like the rest of the Imperium, are in a way a serving chaos by spilling that blood.

Indeed. I, for one, actually like it.

 Envihon wrote:

 Dshrike wrote:
Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

It is possibly that is was desperate move by the Grey Knights of that squad but for the most part as shown in all the other fluff outside the codex, the Grey Knights have a high sense of honor that rivals the Imperial Fists so that piece of fluff highly jives with who they are as a chapter and it would have to have been the last option to complete the job. That is why a lot of GK players don't like it and largely ignore it even more so than Draigo. Without better context of the situation, we don't know fully how that decision was made and people will largely hate it until that comes to light.

Despite the fact that in older fluff, Grey Knights used to butcher entire regiments that used to find out about them or Daemons. Seriously killing Sisters of Battle and yet saying you liked their older fluff means you pretty much don't understand that Grey Knights didn't care about anyone other themselves or hunting Daemons, they killed anyone in contact with daemons unless they could be useful or interrogated..

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Dshrike wrote:
Let's take this a slightly different direction.

How about the Grey Knights butchering the Adeptus Sororitas to "purify" themselves? I understand that this piece of fluffy is widely unpopular, but perhaps we should look into it a little more deeply.

Grey Knights are indeed holders of information that anyone outside the Inquisition would not know, perhaps there is some sort of validity to this dark ritual? Suppose this was written specifically to show that the Grey Knight's mission requires them to do dark deeds in order to achieve the greater good, much like how Inquisitors have to occasionally call an Exterminus on a planet when the situation is very dire. Clearly, it wasn't the most ideal option, but depending on the circumstance they felt that was the best of their choices?

It is possibly that is was desperate move by the Grey Knights of that squad but for the most part as shown in all the other fluff outside the codex, the Grey Knights have a high sense of honor that rivals the Imperial Fists so that piece of fluff highly jives with who they are as a chapter and it would have to have been the last option to complete the job. That is why a lot of GK players don't like it and largely ignore it even more so than Draigo. Without better context of the situation, we don't know fully how that decision was made and people will largely hate it until that comes to light.

Despite the fact that in older fluff, Grey Knights used to butcher entire regiments that used to find out about them or Daemons. Seriously killing Sisters of Battle and yet saying you liked their older fluff means you pretty much don't understand that Grey Knights didn't care about anyone other themselves or hunting Daemons, they killed anyone in contact with daemons unless they could be useful or interrogated..

I disagree that the Grey Knights don't care about anyone else. The regard the safety of the Imperium in a high regard. They don't take their job lightly and highly regret when they have to kill citizens. They see having to kill Imperial citizens due the corruption of Chaos as a neccesary evil to stop the spread of Chaos. And usually it isn't up to the Grey Knights if they are involved in a purge, it is at the behest of the Inquisition. The Grey Knights will openly disagree but they don't have the authority to over rule the Inqusition. Again The Emperor's Gift is a good example describing how everything works for the Grey Knights and that they disagree with the Inquisition a lot but they can't do anything about it, they have to follow their orders. Also, the Grey Knights go to great lengths to not be seen by regular Imperial citizens or Space Marines and take corrective measures to make sure that only in the worst of situations this happens. They are also careful to make sure that if they have to exterminate a population due to Chaotic corruption that the population is truly corrupted. The Grey Knights actually disagreed with the Inquisition during the Months of Shame but had to follow the orders from the Inquisition. They told this to the Space Wolves even. The even was truly tragic.

I know a lot of focus has been on the Grey Knights, but what about the Adeptus Sororitas? What do you suppose this event says about them?

Sure, sure, we've heard from many saying that the SOB are just GW's "Worf" in that they're used to get killed/defeated to showcase how threatening something can be, but let's look beyond that.

Do you suppose that there's something special about the Sisters that make them even more "pure" than the Grey Knights? Or that, there exists a ritual of sorts where such blood will actually shield you from Chaos influence? The Sister's do represent the best a normal human can both spiritually and physically be without augmentation. I empathsize the spiritual part especially since acts of faith seem to be something especially mysterious in the 40k world.

Interesting idea. This is pure conjecture, but you could look at it in a rather grimdark ironic lens. The Sisters, the purest a human can be, are slaughtered by post-human warriors in the interest of a supposed greater good. Thus, in defence of humanity, the purity and the innocence that is worth defending is sacrificed.

Most of the more 'ridiculous' fluff is much more reasonable when viewed as something of an ironic statement on the real nature of the setting. There's a piece I wrote on the Ultramarines a while back from this perspective, I'll post it here later.

 Dshrike wrote:
I know a lot of focus has been on the Grey Knights, but what about the Adeptus Sororitas? What do you suppose this event says about them?

Sure, sure, we've heard from many saying that the SOB are just GW's "Worf" in that they're used to get killed/defeated to showcase how threatening something can be, but let's look beyond that.

Do you suppose that there's something special about the Sisters that make them even more "pure" than the Grey Knights? Or that, there exists a ritual of sorts where such blood will actually shield you from Chaos influence? The Sister's do represent the best a normal human can both spiritually and physically be without augmentation. I empathsize the spiritual part especially since acts of faith seem to be something especially mysterious in the 40k world.

It is the SoB that proves the point that the Emperor has ascended to something that is or like godhood to rival the Chaos Gods. The same can be said that the GK use of psychic powers to make their psychic energy into the anathema of Chaos shows what will can do with the warp. I think it highlights one fact: Combine the SoB faith with the GK psychic potentcy and you have a force to utterly destroy Chaos but realize that that kind of power comes at a cost even for those that are the forces of "order" in the universe. I think it was also to show tha the GK are not a cure-all for Chaos and need some kind of help to augment themselves for the biggest of foes.

 Dshrike wrote:
Do you suppose that there's something special about the Sisters that make them even more "pure" than the Grey Knights?

Sure. What's special about them is that they've got the indoctrination side of things locked down tighter than anyone else. To put it briefly: their indoctrination starts from birth, and is very intense. It also involves their memories being erased and them being injected with a chemical that makes them more receptive to the brainwashing. And (this is a crucial part) a prerequisite to be chosen as an SoB is to have responded significantly to the brainwashing, compared to other Schola students who have gone through it too. Lastly, the Sisters live their lives in the Schola and beyond shielded from any real outside influence. So yeah, as you said, they are (probably) the best a human can be in terms of purity.

But what's very important about the GK is that they don't try to resist Chaos with faith/purity alone like the Sisters do. They use means like rituals and study of Chaos in order to resist it. The Sisters would never use such means because they'd consider them heretical, but this does give the Knights the edge in some situations, and purity alone isn't always enough. The Bloodtide is a good example, where some Sisters were affected by the Bloodtide whilst others were immune due to their faith/purity. Meanwhile, the GK were susceptible to the Bloodtide without the blood ritual (the fluff describes them as "needing" protection from it), but were able to use their blood ritual to make all of them immune to it.

TL;DR: The Sisters can be argued to be "purer", but the GK aren't relying on purity alone.

As for how I feel about the Bloodtide fluff itself, I've mellowed out about it. As others have said, it's there to brutally demonstrate the "we do what we must" nature of the GK. And while the Sisters don't get the best showing in it, it does at least demonstrate the power of their faith against the most intense Daemonic corruption.

 Dshrike wrote:
acts of faith seem to be something especially mysterious in the 40k world.

 Envihon wrote:
It is the SoB that proves the point that the Emperor has ascended to something that is or like godhood to rival the Chaos Gods.

Well... It actually depends on where you look. Codex fluff has consistently basically said that Acts of Faith aren't magical, and are just the Sisters using their intense faith to push themselves beyond their normal limits. But, on the other hand, some other sources do have them as outright magical.

Personally I prefer the codex version, but whatver floats your boat.

 Troike wrote:

 Dshrike wrote:
Do you suppose that there's something special about the Sisters that make them even more "pure" than the Grey Knights?

Sure. What's special about them is that they've got the indoctrination side of things locked down tighter than anyone else. To put it briefly: their indoctrination starts from birth, and is very intense. It also involves their memories being erased and them being injected with a chemical that makes them more receptive to the brainwashing. And (this is a crucial part) a prerequisite to be chosen as an SoB is to have responded significantly to the brainwashing, compared to other Schola students who have gone through it too. Lastly, the Sisters live their lives in the Schola and beyond shielded from any real outside influence. So yeah, as you said, they are (probably) the best a human can be in terms of purity.

But what's very important about the GK is that they don't try to resist Chaos with faith/purity alone like the Sisters do. They use means like rituals and study of Chaos in order to resist it. The Sisters would never use such means because they'd consider them heretical, but this does give the Knights the edge in some situations, and purity alone isn't always enough. The Bloodtide is a good example, where some Sisters were affected by the Bloodtide whilst others were immune due to their faith/purity. Meanwhile, the GK were susceptible to the Bloodtide without the blood ritual (the fluff describes them as "needing" protection from it), but were able to use their blood ritual to make all of them immune to it.

TL;DR: The Sisters can be argued to be "purer", but the GK aren't relying on purity alone.

As for how I feel about the Bloodtide fluff itself, I've mellowed out about it. As others have said, it's there to brutally demonstrate the "we do what we must" nature of the GK. And while the Sisters don't get the best showing in it, it does at least demonstrate the power of their faith against the most intense Daemonic corruption.

 Dshrike wrote:
acts of faith seem to be something especially mysterious in the 40k world.

 Envihon wrote:
It is the SoB that proves the point that the Emperor has ascended to something that is or like godhood to rival the Chaos Gods.

Well... It actually depends on where you look. Codex fluff has consistently basically said that Acts of Faith aren't magical, and are just the Sisters using their intense faith to push themselves beyond their normal limits. But, on the other hand, some other sources do have them as outright magical.

Personally I prefer the codex version, but whatver floats your boat.

I agree with you for the most part. I think the SoB and the GK are two sides of the same coin. The SoB show the power of pure faith and purity itself but the GKs represent the other side when someone is given full knowledge of the opponent and with that knowledge becomes the perfect counter. Both are good but not all powerful and needs to be supplemented which unfortunately is what that incident was trying to show but I think they violated the GKs code of honor a little too much for it unless the SoB gave themselves for the ritual.

Also, to me, I still don't see the SoB Acts of Faith as magical either but I still think it shows the power of Emperor because Chaos Cultists can do the same without being a psyker as their faith and will manifest because they believe that hard in their patron Chaos god. Everyone is connected to warp, only the untouchables do not so any act of faith through the sheer will of user is tapping into the warp. The first act like the ones that the SoB was performed by Keeler aboard the Eisenstein. It proves that the gods of the warp are created from those who are connected to it by their believing in it and is how the Emperor was able to ascend to God-hood in the first place.

 Envihon wrote:
but I think they violated the GKs code of honor a little too much for it unless the SoB gave themselves for the ritual.

I personally don't see it that way. The GK are meant to be uncomprimising, and this was an especially serious and dangerous Daemonic incursion. I think that the GK were perfectly in-character, here.

Also, the Sisters wouldn't have agreed to pass up being martyred fighting against Chaos to go be killed by an ally so that their blood could be used in a ritual, so that wasn't really an option.

 Envihon wrote:
but I still think it shows the power of Emperor because Chaos Cultists can do the same without being a psyker as their faith and will manifest because they believe that hard in their patron Chaos god. Everyone is connected to warp, only the untouchables do not so any act of faith through the sheer will of user is tapping into the warp. The first act like the ones that the SoB was performed by Keeler aboard the Eisenstein. It proves that the gods of the warp are created from those who are connected to it by their believing in it and is how the Emperor was able to ascend to God-hood in the first place.

Eh, I still don't see what the SoB are doing as being powered by the Emperor, or the warp. See, SoB Acts really are just them pushing themselves beyond normal limits (at least in the codexes). Stuff like hitting harder, shooting better, or shrugging off a hit that should have been fatal. They're not getting stuff similar to Chaotic boons, or mind-banishing Daemons like Keeler.

But hey, there is actually one SoB that fits in with your viewpoint: Saint Celestine. She actually is outright magical, and it's very easy to think of her as a "Daemon of the Emperor", or something to that effect.

Anyway, to summarise my thoughts in regards to the original topic, I do think that the SoB avoid being too "mary-sue" with their AoFs and purity, as their skill is justified with all of the training they've been through.

 Troike wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
but I think they violated the GKs code of honor a little too much for it unless the SoB gave themselves for the ritual.

I personally don't see it that way. The GK are meant to be uncomprimising, and this was an especially serious and dangerous Daemonic incursion. I think that the GK were perfectly in-character, here.

Also, the Sisters wouldn't have agreed to pass up being martyred fighting against Chaos to go be killed by an ally so that their blood could be used in a ritual, so that wasn't really an option.

 Envihon wrote:
but I still think it shows the power of Emperor because Chaos Cultists can do the same without being a psyker as their faith and will manifest because they believe that hard in their patron Chaos god. Everyone is connected to warp, only the untouchables do not so any act of faith through the sheer will of user is tapping into the warp. The first act like the ones that the SoB was performed by Keeler aboard the Eisenstein. It proves that the gods of the warp are created from those who are connected to it by their believing in it and is how the Emperor was able to ascend to God-hood in the first place.

Eh, I still don't see what the SoB are doing as being powered by the Emperor, or the warp. See, SoB Acts really are just them pushing themselves beyond normal limits (at least in the codexes). Stuff like hitting harder, shooting better, or shrugging off a hit that should have been fatal. They're not getting stuff similar to Chaotic boons, or mind-banishing Daemons like Keeler.

But hey, there is actually one SoB that fits in with your viewpoint: Saint Celestine. She actually is outright magical, and it's very easy to think of her as a "Daemon of the Emperor", or something to that effect.

Anyway, to summarise my thoughts in regards to the original topic, I do think that the SoB avoid being too "mary-sue" with their AoFs and purity, as their skill is justified with all of the training they've been through.

The GKs know the price of their services and in everything outside that example, do everything to avoid having to kill loyal Imperial citizens if need be. They realize that the point of their existence is to make it so that a regular Imperial citizen doesn't have to bear the burden of knowing that Chaos exists and when they have to kill Imperial citizens it quite literally pains them to do so because they feel every person die as their life force is snuffed out of the warp. Usually, the GKs are under orders to do such acts from the Inquisition. I once had the same opinion and still liked the GKs even with that but in the fluff involving the GKs like The Emperor's Gift and the audio drama Mortarion's Heart , they humanize the GK a lot more than the list of events found in the codex. Heck, the GK have even shown respect for xenos when an Eldar Craftworld was wiped out by Chaos, they went in to purge the daemons but when the Eldar came back for their soulstones instead of killing them, the GK gave them back their soul stones. So when left up to their own. the GK are honorable with bearing the burden of hunting Chaos. Usually when the GK are called to do something like that, it is an order from the Inquisition. Most Inquisitors treat the GK as efficient killing machines so they give such tasks to them without another thought because they usually are safely tucked away in their ship getting reports.

Could it have been the GKs who ordered the SoB to ritually sacrificed? If it was the last thing that they could do to make sure Chaos died than I would say yes but imo, the order came from an Inquisitor. There is a reason why the GKs call the time after Armageddon the Months of Shame because they were ordered by the Inquisition to slaughter innocents. It is also why the GKs let the Space Wolves give them the order to reveal their entire existence to the entire chapter. So the GKs are not without heart and emotions. Do they love like a normal human being? No but they do care deeply for their duty to the Imperium and the citizens of the Imperium. The best mission to them is when they slaughter Chaos and not one citizen ever knew it happened. You can't get these kind of facts from the Codices, only Black Library where you can get into the head of a GK. I have just painted the picture of why I love the GKs but have reconsidered how much I like the Inquisition as a whole.

I don't think we are going to agree on the AoF thing either. To me the sheer will is warp related because that is how the warp works, by forces of will. Something happens because you will it to happen and with enough will, the warp obeys. Which is the fluff explanation behind Admantium Will, you exert so much will to deny a psyker power because you willed it out of existence. I see AoF in the same light as this because every human is connected to the warp because of having a soul and they have stated several times throughout the fluff this is how non-psykers do the amazing things they do. So I don't see it as a psychic or magical power but the power of a human spirit.

The only real problem with the Bloodtide story is the way in which it is written. In concept, it makes perfect sense.

The GK are wielders of the blackest sorceries and the darkest of arcane secrets all in the cause of purity. That the blood of the pure would be required to create a warding seal against the Daemonic is not surprising, and that the GK would possess the ways, the means and the will to create this warding seal is perfectly in keeping with the character of the Grey Knights.

Honor takes a back seat to the Grey Knights fulfilling their role. Their role is to destroy the daemonic. The Sisters that survived thus far were obviously perfect candidates to provide the blood needed for the ritual. The GK simply did what needed doing.

Four sentences could have solved almost everyone's problems with the story:

GK: "Sister... it would seem the purity of your faith has granted you an immunity to the depredations of this daemonic foe. It pains me to say it, but we require your blood to create a sanctified ward by which we may banish and destroy this foe once and for all."

SOB: "Our blood? How much of it?"

GK: "...all of it."

SOB: "To die serving the Emperor is the greatest death one could dare hope for. We give our lives in His cause, and we give them gladly."

"Officially", a lot of the stories are propaganda. Up to you how much truth there is in each one.

That, too, is an important fact. It goes hand-in-hand with GW's statement that there *is* no canon to 40k, beyond a few very basic elements.

 Psienesis wrote:
The only real problem with the Bloodtide story is the way in which it is written. In concept, it makes perfect sense.

The GK are wielders of the blackest sorceries and the darkest of arcane secrets all in the cause of purity. That the blood of the pure would be required to create a warding seal against the Daemonic is not surprising, and that the GK would possess the ways, the means and the will to create this warding seal is perfectly in keeping with the character of the Grey Knights.

Honor takes a back seat to the Grey Knights fulfilling their role. Their role is to destroy the daemonic. The Sisters that survived thus far were obviously perfect candidates to provide the blood needed for the ritual. The GK simply did what needed doing.

Four sentences could have solved almost everyone's problems with the story:

GK: "Sister... it would seem the purity of your faith has granted you an immunity to the depredations of this daemonic foe. It pains me to say it, but we require your blood to create a sanctified ward by which we may banish and destroy this foe once and for all."

SOB: "Our blood? How much of it?"

GK: "...all of it."

SOB: "To die serving the Emperor is the greatest death one could dare hope for. We give our lives in His cause, and we give them gladly."

I quite like that and you are right, that makes the Bloodtide situation appear in a completely different light than what is proposed in the codex as well as helps both the GK and SoB not only still be "in character" but allows for each to save face and neither be diminished.