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Primary detachment: Ultramarines

Hq
Tigarius 165
Chapter master, bike, artificer armor, storm shield, power fist 210

Troop
5 tactical marines: 70
5 tactical marines 70

Heavy support
3 centurions, grav cannons 250
3 centurions, grav cannons 250

Allied detachment: Red scorpions
Hq
Severin Loth 175
Troops
10 tactical marines, plasma cannon, Sargent with narcethium 155
10 tactical marines, plasma cannon, Sargent with narcethium 155


Are the 2 of them to much?

Any thoughts, notes, or advise?

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

Well I needed 2 troops with my primary detachment.

My other option would be to make the red scorpions my main, and ultramarines my secondary, which would let me drop one of the ultramarines 5 man squads. Only downside is the one turn re roll ones that ultramarines chapter tactics would give to one squad of centurions.

I agree chapter master is out of place.
In its place I could run of 5 man command squad with grav guns and a apothecary.

drop the tac marines, grab 2 units of bikes, put the Chapter master with one said bike unit. there ya go.

The Chapter Master tanks for the second gravstar. You need him, keep him.

I'd argue lose the chapter master for a libby (you can use invisibility, etc. to really protect the stars. Also, for fun, levitation + centurions is awesome).

the extra 145 points can be used to grab 4 rhinos (one for each troop set.

Keep the CM. You have Loth to tank wounds for one star and the CM for the other. The CM can also break off and murder something as necessary. Invisibility is great, when it works. It's just too unreliable in 7th to use it as a lynch pin - let me put it in numbers:

LD 10 granted a ~92% chance of success for a psychic power to go off. Your perils chance was about 6%.

In 7th:

6d6 gives you 89%, 7d6 gives 93.75%. You have... 6 warp charges guaranteed between Tiggy and Loth, so you'll be able to consistently roll the 7d6 option. However, that comes with a price - you have a 33% chance of a perils, and you can only cast it on one unit. 6th would have reliably given you a shot a both units being consistently impacted by invisibility, which of course was much weaker. That's not accounting for denial attempts from crazy denial dice armies like nids, GK, etc. It's just reliable enough to lynch pin on. On the other end of the fence, Loth and your CM will consistently provide 2++ and 3++ saves to the front end of the unit every turn. Another libby would give you more dice, sure, but you'd lose the guaranteed protection of your biker CM and still run the risk of neither of the 2 regular libbys picking up invisibility - this leaves you contingent on Loth to buff one of your two stars. The safety that the CM gives you just isn't worth 2 more warp charges for a 2W, T4 character.

#s via : http://www.torrentoffire.com/4776/the-math-of-the-new-psychic-phase


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd consider moving the 10 man units into your primary, dropping one of the 5 mans and giving both units rhinos. Drop the plasma cannons for meltaguns, or plasma guns. You can probably a tinker a bit but you might dig up a way to give the 5 man a transport too. You don't need the killing power from the plasma cannons - your centurions take care of that.

Agreed; and I'd add the melta. You'll need all the tankhunters you can get in this meta.

Would be Nice. I Third the melta. Plasma Cannons are so last year. And mobility is alpha omega if you play Maelstorm.

So overall I, getting that it would be better to keep the chapter master, take melta guns on my tac squads (and combi?)

List looking like this...
Main detachment
Serving loth 175
Chapter master, bike, storm shield, artificer armor, power fist 210

10 tactical marines, melta gun, combi melta in rhino 195
10 tactical marines, melta gun, in rhino 185

3 centurions, grav cannons 250

Allied detachment

Tigarius 165

5 tactical 70

3 centurions, grav cannons 250

Ok, now replace those Rhinos with drop pods and you're good.

There are a few problems with the Cent star now.

1) Gate of Infinity is pretty terrible for anyone not GK. In order to cast it with enough dice to ensure it wont be denied, you are probably going to take perils. If you fail to cast it or dont get the power all together, those cents end up being too slow for Maelstrom games.

2) Prescience and Perfect Timing are not in the same tree as Gate of Infinity and are much harder to cast.

3) Cant have a Tau Buffmander in the unit for splitfire/ignorescover.

Yeah, I think you go Invisibility if you're non-GK. Just go for durability and push the two grav units into the center of the board for area control/denial. They still have an effective 30" range. You just have to have the tools beyond them to score objectives beyond your reach; hence the importance of swapping rhinos for drop pods.

That being said, there is a reason why most centstars now reside as allies for GK. It's the most logical, easiest build. Doesn't mean marines can't run cents, just means they can't perform the same way.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
There are a few problems with the Cent star now.

1) Gate of Infinity is pretty terrible for anyone not GK. In order to cast it with enough dice to ensure it wont be denied, you are probably going to take perils. If you fail to cast it or dont get the power all together, those cents end up being too slow for Maelstrom games.

2) Prescience and Perfect Timing are not in the same tree as Gate of Infinity and are much harder to cast.

3) Cant have a Tau Buffmander in the unit for splitfire/ignorescover.

Gates Mastery level 1, and with 2 mastery level 3 psykers + the d6 roll I think that I can get gate without the perils.

I do agree that they are less damaging without ignores cover and re roll to hit, but the ultra marines chapter tactic can make a poor mans prescience in a time of need.

No tau

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
There are a few problems with the Cent star now.

1) Gate of Infinity is pretty terrible for anyone not GK. In order to cast it with enough dice to ensure it wont be denied, you are probably going to take perils. If you fail to cast it or dont get the power all together, those cents end up being too slow for Maelstrom games.

2) Prescience and Perfect Timing are not in the same tree as Gate of Infinity and are much harder to cast.

3) Cant have a Tau Buffmander in the unit for splitfire/ignorescover.

Gates Mastery level 1, and with 2 mastery level 3 psykers + the d6 roll I think that I can get gate without the perils.

I do agree that they are less damaging without ignores cover and re roll to hit, but the ultra marines chapter tactic can make a poor mans prescience in a time of need.

No tau

Against armies such as Eldar, Deamons, and GK; you are going to want at leat 3 successes to insure Gate does not get denied. On 7 dice, you have only a 77.34% chance to pass with 3 charges and a 100.00% chance to peril. Even if you only roll 3 dice, you are looking at an 87.50% chance to pass on just a single warp charge but still have a 44.44% chance to peril. These are terrible odds to write an army list around IMHO.

Forgot Doubles periled even with sanctic. I also like going with levitation, less range, but also less up to chance on where you end up, and much less chance of periling.

Levitate could work nicely, certainly better than Gate anyway. Only other problem I see with your set-up is S10. Wraithknights, Wraithguard, and Hammerheads come to mind. This could be Solved with a Shield Eternal on the CM. Not sure how much S10 you see in your area so it may or may not be worth the points.

What to drop for it though...what to drop...