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 wuestenfux wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

Toofast wrote:

Building PP models is about as much fun as a trip to the dentist. You're lucky if you have all the parts right out of the box and don't have to wait 2 weeks for PP to send you a part that's necessary to complete the model. They often have tiny bits that you have to glue on with no support and no way to add any so they break off every time you transport your models (choir of menoth, sword on the piper). The plastic in the starter and battle boxes is just awful. There's mold lines everywhere, usually in really bad places and you have to forcefully cut them off with a hobby knife. You can't really pose them at all. The resin/plastic mix is brittle so stuff like the Vanquisher CCW arm and Kreoss1 staff snap off easily. The aesthetics are nothing to write home about so when you're done with all the "fun" of putting them together and painting them, they're still not all that impressive to look at.
.

I've never had missing parts bud. Similarly, I've never really had any issues with any of the plastics I've bought.

You've been unlucky. It's not par for the course.

Regarding the aesthetics - they're subjective. I happen to like the WMH 'look'.

Here I can underline what has been said by Toofast.
Recently I was missing part of Mother Directrix and the GW plastic is superior to that of PP.
It appears that there will be a long way to go for PP in order to keep up with GW when it comes to models and modeling.

I don't think it's going to take as long as you think.

That's the new battle engine showcasing their new plastic.

Also, Iron Mother Directrix is my favorite model from any range.

 wuestenfux wrote:
[
Here I can underline what has been said by Toofast.
Recently I was missing part of Mother Directrix and the GW plastic is superior to that of PP.
It appears that there will be a long way to go for PP in order to keep up with GW when it comes to models and modeling.

I´ve had parts missing from my WM/H models on atleast 5 different occasions. And yeah, some of the models are absolutely ridicilous to assemble, but doable if you just have the patience and use pinning.

Deadnight wrote:

Toofast wrote:

Building PP models is about as much fun as a trip to the dentist. You're lucky if you have all the parts right out of the box and don't have to wait 2 weeks for PP to send you a part that's necessary to complete the model. They often have tiny bits that you have to glue on with no support and no way to add any so they break off every time you transport your models (choir of menoth, sword on the piper). The plastic in the starter and battle boxes is just awful. There's mold lines everywhere, usually in really bad places and you have to forcefully cut them off with a hobby knife. You can't really pose them at all. The resin/plastic mix is brittle so stuff like the Vanquisher CCW arm and Kreoss1 staff snap off easily. The aesthetics are nothing to write home about so when you're done with all the "fun" of putting them together and painting them, they're still not all that impressive to look at.
.

I've never had missing parts bud. Similarly, I've never really had any issues with any of the plastics I've bought.

You've been unlucky. It's not par for the course.

Regarding the aesthetics - they're subjective. I happen to like the WMH 'look'.

In 1 box, I was missing a head, waist piece for a warjack and one of the weapon arms for the warjack. All 5 Cinerators had horribly bent swords that wouldn't straighten out. Kreoss1 staff broke off below his hand while he was sitting in a foam case that was never dropped or handled roughly. Crusader had the worst mold lines I've ever seen. I'm not unlucky as all my friends that tried to switch from 40k to WMH made the same complaints. They love the rules and want to get out of 40k completely for WMH, but as long as the models suck this much they will keep playing both systems.

I have never had a missing piece, but I did get an extra Sorcha in my Battle Box.

I was missing Epic Kaya's tiny epic right hand, but I blame myself for most likely tossing it out on accident.

The only real problems I've had in terms of missing pieces for WM/H was during the 2010-11 popularity boom where PP could not keep up with demand. They were obviously rushing as fast as possible to fulfill the orders coming in and lots of things were falling through the cracks. For the last 3 years though, I've had no missing parts.

I've had a few missing pieces of the course of 5 years of collecting/playing Wm/H. Replacement is usualyl very quick and has never been a problem.

Sadly almost everything I've got has had a missing piece. They are quick to replace it but still. A few weeks ago I got my brother a Raek for his Legion, the back leg was missing. Before that it was a base for Aiyana. Before that a pikemen arm. Before that a Skinwalker axe from the Hordes two player box. Every time I buy something I need to open it up and check parts.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Sadly almost everything I've got has had a missing piece. They are quick to replace it but still. A few weeks ago I got my brother a Raek for his Legion, the back leg was missing. Before that it was a base for Aiyana. Before that a pikemen arm. Before that a Skinwalker axe from the Hordes two player box. Every time I buy something I need to open it up and check parts.

Totaly correct I have had tons of stuff missing.. I have started to buy stuff at my local gaming store for this reason(and not online).. I open the boxes before leaving the store... This has cut down on the hassel of having to send for things that are missing hehe.. I open stuffs and find something missing I return it right away in the store and get replacement and leave the hassel of sending for missing stuff up to them....

I've actually had more boxes missing pieces from GW than I have from PP. Admittedly that was back when they were hand packing them in the same way as PP currently does.

It took me four different tries with my Dark Elf Executioners and Black Guard orders back before they were made into the still on sprue plastics in order to get everything I needed, since they were constantly missing parts or arrived broken. On top of that, the shop owner I ordered from went through hell in order to get replacements, since GW, or possibly their supplier, were very reluctant to replace the missing parts.

In comparison, I've had two boxes out of dozens from PP that were missing parts, and they were sitting on my step within three days of me asking for replacements.

Impressed that PP is almost at 50% against what is largely acknowledged to be the world's biggest minatures game. None too shabby...

My last 20 -30 pp purchases have been free of the missing parts problem. Back in 2011 it was another matter, I had to make three missing parts calls. It seems they have fixed the issue. It strikes me a very strange people are claiming to encounter it so often now. My player group, which is pretty large, hasn't complained at all about it since early 2012.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

My last 20 -30 pp purchases have been free of the missing parts problem. Back in 2011 it was another matter, I had to make three missing parts calls. It seems they have fixed the issue. It strikes me a very strange people are claiming to encounter it so often now. My player group, which is pretty large, hasn't complained at all about it since early 2012.

It could be, but I may be wrong, that most of these boxes that other posters are complaining about missing parts are still from that era?

I know that, at my LGS, certain factions move like hotcakes, and others sit for months or even perhaps years before being bought up.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Impressed that PP is almost at 50% against what is largely acknowledged to be the world's biggest minatures game. None too shabby...

Just 300 votes though. A small part of Dakkas userbase, and a tiny fraction of all wargamers. The fact that these votes can also be tampered with by using a simple free online proxy server doesn´t really give them much credit. But Dakka seems to be having some sort of WM/H boom now with some folk just discovering the game within a year, and seemingly the most fanatic posters/active users are mostly WM/H ... oriented. For now.

I´d say the most active wargamers are the ones who even bother posting to forums or participating in these. Ofcourse, in some cases it might be the least active wargamers ( the ones that play twice a year, but post twice an hour. )

I just got into WMH this year and all my boxes were from mini market so I doubt they were that old. I just know I haven't received a kit without at least 1 missing piece, something broken, etc. For the money PP is charging I wouldn't expect these issues. I've spent $1200-1500 on GW this year and $300 on WMH. 0 missing or broken pieces in GW kits, too many to remember them all in PP kits.

7th ed...boom in WMH....connection? Hmm... I wonder.

I don´t think it has anything to do with it. I find it more likely it´s due to PPs own efforts. Afaic 7th is the best edition in a while. Some silly stuff in but there always is really.

There are quitters every time when an edition changes, just like there are people who say the game was ruined because of edition X. That never changes.

 MWHistorian wrote:
7th ed...boom in WMH....connection? Hmm... I wonder.

Boom in WMH, no. Infinity, yes. The Warmachine boom happened at the start of Mark II and WFB 8th.

A boom I saw in other games actually came around This time last year when GW started the data slate push, and superheavy push, and the destruction of the FOC. Then they reinforced it with 7th edition. So for those that did not like the direction GW was going left for other games (mine is not WMH), but prior to about midway through 6E 40k I had no real interest in looking at other games. Since then I've played a lot less 40k, and a lot more of other things.

Breng77 wrote:
A boom I saw in other games actually came around This time last year when GW started the data slate push, and superheavy push, and the destruction of the FOC. Then they reinforced it with 7th edition. So for those that did not like the direction GW was going left for other games (mine is not WMH), but prior to about midway through 6E 40k I had no real interest in looking at other games. Since then I've played a lot less 40k, and a lot more of other things.

This was exactly the time when part of our gaming group started (or restarted) WMH.
We still play apoc games and organize RTTs every two or three months, but 40k lost an edge here.

One thing I will say, I do not miss having to work with metals. Some of PP's metal figures are broken into the most ridiculous components (Nyss Hunters looking at you, worst models I have ever tried to put together in nearly 20 years). It's almost enough to drive me back to 40k just for the joy of working with polystyrene plastic for virtually everything.

Almost

And then I look at the price of a normal sized army, and sigh, unglue my fingers and get back to work assembling the Nyss...

I really kind of like those Blood Angels too...

I must be strange... I actually prefer working with metal.

Deadnight wrote:
I must be strange... I actually prefer working with metal.

It's not so much metal itself, it's the completely stupid way some of the models are broken into individual components. An arm with a weapon should be a single piece that connects to the torso, not have the hand separately or the weapon itself separate to the hand.

How about choir of menoth? The leader has the little cross at the top of his staff as a separate piece. Even in a foam case it has broken off 3 times. The staff is too tiny to pin it so after the last time I just said screw it and didn't glue it back on. The only way it's going to stay is if I put a giant ball of green stuff around the joint and try to sculpt it and make it look like it belongs there.

 Toofast wrote:
How about choir of menoth? The leader has the little cross at the top of his staff as a separate piece. Even in a foam case it has broken off 3 times. The staff is too tiny to pin it so after the last time I just said screw it and didn't glue it back on. The only way it's going to stay is if I put a giant ball of green stuff around the joint and try to sculpt it and make it look like it belongs there.

What brand glue are you using? I personally use Loctite, and have never had any issues with case travel with ANY metal models, regardless of manufacturer. In fact the only model that I've recently had any issues with, as far as assembly and keeping together is one from the Helldorado line, where I got a mediocre cast on the wrist, combined with a bad mold line on the "gluing surface" of the hand

I pinned every single joint in Nyss Hunters, my Croe's Cuthroats and my Steelhead Halberdiers. It was a lot of pinning, but totally worth it. I had to use the smaller drillbit and wire Privateer sells to make some of the Nyss joins pin properly, but it really worked well.

I'd much, much rather go through that than go through mould line removal on small base pvc plastic miniatures like the cyriss infantry I built for a friend. I *hate* that stuff.

Zap a gap medium. I've used it with and without the quick bond spray. I've heard that the spray weakens the bond so I tried using it without but stuff still comes apart. The metal GW models I have were put together with GW thick super glue and have never come apart.

I use either LocTite or a Gorilla Glue but it's still flimsy. I much prefer GWs plastic but that's really all I like at this point.

 Toofast wrote:
Zap a gap medium. I've used it with and without the quick bond spray. I've heard that the spray weakens the bond so I tried using it without but stuff still comes apart. The metal GW models I have were put together with GW thick super glue and have never come apart.

I had a similar problem. Switched to Locktite control gel, haven't broken a model since.

Seems like a small change, and I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen the change in repair frequency.

 gunslingerpro wrote:

I had a similar problem. Switched to Locktite control gel, haven't broken a model since.

Seems like a small change, and I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen the change in repair frequency.

I personally don't like the Loctite control gel, it seems that it takes twice as long to set to a point where I can let go of the part being glued.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 gunslingerpro wrote:

I had a similar problem. Switched to Locktite control gel, haven't broken a model since.

Seems like a small change, and I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen the change in repair frequency.

I personally don't like the Loctite control gel, it seems that it takes twice as long to set to a point where I can let go of the part being glued.

I agree, I find the same things. However this is also drifting way off topic

Back on topic one thing that really just stands out to me is the nonsensical pricing. A BA Tac Squad is $43 for 10 models (which is a little high but not unreasonable, although let's not include the fact you likely want a Rhino or something which will bring it up to $80 for one unit choice). Death Company is FIVE models for $33. Last I checked, half of $43 was $21.50. If I wanted 10 DC, I'd have to pay $66, over 50% more than I would for the Tactical Squad, because reasons. That's just ridiculous and is a big reason I can't bring myself to play 40k again despite probably enjoying it (and the aforementioned enjoying working with polystyrene plastic). There is no reason for their seemingly random prices. Models of the same size should cost the same across the board, so that a box of 5 elite troops or whatever costs half of the price of 10 regular troops.

I would even be okay with larger models (like Terminators) being slightly more expensive than just straight half of the price of 10 regular sized models. But for two kinds of models of the same size to be priced like that for basically zero reason at all is beyond ridiculous.

There is then of course the balance/rules issue. The price can somewhat be offset (not a lot but still every bit helps) by their actual boxed sets (not the web bundles). The problem with those is they tend to give you different models for variety (which is fine) but due to the rules being unbalanced often doesn't provide an effective force (which is not fine) without a significant extra cost on top of that, which all but removes the benefit of buying the box in the first place.